Pakistan Air Force - The Best Kill Record in the World in defence

[SQ8]

Times have changed since the ice age..
Put a dumb nugget in a F-35 and will get himself killed by cheap 23mm shells.
However...
As far as the claim of superior PAF pilots is concerned.. bringing on jingoistic records of one or two kills where Pakistan did not even directly participate is not a credible way to prove superiority.
Both AF's have tough training regimes.. in case of the IAF.. they pick out the cream of the crop while they are still playing on the school field. But that is due to their limited population.
We achieve it by looking at all those who come in.. usually via PAF lowertopa or Sargodha cadet colleges(as per the PAF's own claim).
Selection is not across the board.. but effective nonetheless..and fair for the pool they take.
The Israeli's train regularly with the American's.. participating in Red flag's.. co-procurement..etc.
That effects the training curriculum development.. and what is imparted to the students. The Israeli's maintain a regular aggressor squadron to train their pilots against enemy tactics and aircraft..not to mention they usually know about the newest eastern bloc jets before any export customer thanks to our Arab friends.
It is only recently that there has been talk of establishing a dedicated aggressor sq in the PAF to train all operational units and not just CCS graduates on enemy tactics and equipment.
Outside of the US.. the IAF holds the largest russian SAM collection for training.

That does not leave the PAF without a standing against the IAF.. since even today we are considered by them as the best they have met...
But no jingoistic claims will ever land PAF the title of best in kills..or whatever.

 

[bc040400065]

Too much of random generalization based on encounters that happened in 60's and 70's.

Why does anyone think Israel AF may not have improved on their pilot's training?

PAF scored kills in the 80's as well. and with Most of the current fleet.

 

[LEGENDARY WARRIOR]

F-16 vs Su-25:

On 4 August 1988, a Russian Su-25 intruded into Pakistan airspace. The pilot of this Su-25 was Colonel Rutskoi Alexander who was also the Inspector of Su-25 in deployed in Afghanistan. This Su-25 was intercepted by Sq. Ldr. Athar Bokhari of No. 14 squadron who was a pilot of F-16 at that time. In the air combat that took place; Sq. Ldr. Bokhari shot down the Su-25. Colonel Rutskoi ejected and was taken POW. He was handed over to the Russian authorities on 16 August 1988.

Colonel Rutskoi later became the Vice President of Russia on 10 July 1991. PAF second to none.

 

[Donatello]

^ Times have changed since those previous encounters between Israel and Pakistan.

Israel today has F-15's in addition to F-16's and will soon get F-35's in a few years time.

Times have changed my friend, times have changed!

You my friend didn't notice.


PAF was flying aircraft it wasn't used to. Mig 21s to be precise.

They shot down Mirage, which at the time was one of the most lethal aircraft.

Today PAF flies F-16s just like IAF and is getting JF-17s and future looks to have J-10s.

PAF seems to be more like coming par to IAF in lethality.

 

[LEGENDARY WARRIOR]

.. since even today we are considered by them as the best they have met...

good to know. . . Thank you

 

[Markus]

You my friend didn't notice.


PAF was flying aircraft it wasn't used to. Mig 21s to be precise.

They shot down Mirage, which at the time was one of the most lethal aircraft.

Today PAF flies F-16s just like IAF and is getting JF-17s and future looks to have J-10s.

PAF seems to be more like coming par to IAF in lethality.

In no way am I undermining PAF's capabilities.

JUst that I dont find it correct to rule out IsAF away so easily.

 

[prototype]

thats what we say when u guys talking about 1971

might be u will learn something after 26/11 (when ur ministers talk about so called "surgical strike") learn first why Indian govt/Airforce etc not go for any mis-adventure against pakistan at that time!

"Times have changed my friend.. times have changed!!!"

well u people can keep posting such fanboy videos for appeasement of ur shattered morale.

1971 is enough to show the failure of the spectacular PAF.

East Pakistani airspace was compromised within a matter of 2 days.

Operation Chengiz Khan totally flopped to achieve it's objective.

Soon after Chengiz Khan IAF responded with massive retaliatory strikes.

Sargodha and Masroor were totally damaged,for two days PAF had to operate from taxiways.

Ur PAF was completely unable to defend Karachi when it was bursting like firecrackers.

Try to take on against Israeli air force as a single entity other than remaining scrambled inside an Arab force,u will get the results

Time had not changed that much

 

[Donatello]

In no way am I undermining PAF's capabilities.

JUst that I dont find it correct to rule out IsAF away so easily.

No body is ruling them out so easily, after all they destroyed the Arab forces and forced Jordan to be friends with as their King was smart enough that Jordan can no longer afford to be their enemy.


But what we are saying is that for IsAF and PAF comparison there are only two Wars that we can compare and they are when PAF was not flying it's own jets and didn't lose a single jet to Israelis, while shooting them down.


Other than that we cannot make comparisons on what jets they have, as F-15s don't speak anything if they haven't fought against PAF.


Maybe a better way would be to say who has a better record in IsAF and PAF comparison?

First war they met in, PAF wins, do you agree?
Second war they meet in, PAF wins, would you agree?


Nonetheless, this does not mean we imply that if (God Forbid) they meet in a third war PAF will win.

Correlation does not imply Causation.

 

[Donatello]

well u people can keep posting such fanboy videos for appeasement of ur shattered morale.

1971 is enough to show the failure of the spectacular PAF.

East Pakistani airspace was compromised within a matter of 2 days.

Operation Chengiz Khan totally flopped to achieve it's objective.

Soon after Chengiz Khan IAF responded with massive retaliatory strikes.

Sargodha and Masroor were totally damaged,for two days PAF had to operate from taxiways.

Ur PAF was completely unable to defend Karachi when it was bursting like firecrackers.

Try to take on against Israeli air force as a single entity other than remaining scrambled inside an Arab force,u will get the results

Time had not changed that much

MODS,

this is irrelevant spam.

PLease remove this post, for we don't want trolling

 

[LEGENDARY WARRIOR]

well u people can keep posting such fanboy videos for appeasement of ur shattered morale.

1971 is enough to show the failure of the spectacular PAF.

East Pakistani airspace was compromised within a matter of 2 days.

Operation Chengiz Khan totally flopped to achieve it's objective.

Soon after Chengiz Khan IAF responded with massive retaliatory strikes.

Sargodha and Masroor were totally damaged,for two days PAF had to operate from taxiways.

Ur PAF was completely unable to defend Karachi when it was bursting like firecrackers.

Try to take on against Israeli air force as a single entity other than remaining scrambled inside an Arab force,u will get the results

Time had not changed that much

You cannot make a comparison between Pakistan Air Force and indian air force over here. 1971 war PAF aircraft was outnumbered by 4:1 in West Pakistan and 10:1 in East Pakistan. . .

 

[Areesh]

well u people can keep posting such fanboy videos for appeasement of ur shattered morale.

1971 is enough to show the failure of the spectacular PAF.

East Pakistani airspace was compromised within a matter of 2 days.

Operation Chengiz Khan totally flopped to achieve it's objective.

Soon after Chengiz Khan IAF responded with massive retaliatory strikes.

Sargodha and Masroor were totally damaged,for two days PAF had to operate from taxiways.

Ur PAF was completely unable to defend Karachi when it was bursting like firecrackers.

Try to take on against Israeli air force as a single entity other than remaining scrambled inside an Arab force,u will get the results

Time had not changed that much

And you think you are not a fan boy!

 

[Markus]

No body is ruling them out so easily, after all they destroyed the Arab forces and forced Jordan to be friends with as their King was smart enough that Jordan can no longer afford to be their enemy.


But what we are saying is that for IsAF and PAF comparison there are only two Wars that we can compare and they are when PAF was not flying it's own jets and didn't lose a single jet to Israelis, while shooting them down.


Other than that we cannot make comparisons on what jets they have, as F-15s don't speak anything if they haven't fought against PAF.


Maybe a better way would be to say who has a better record in IsAF and PAF comparison?

First war they met in, PAF wins, do you agree?
Second war they meet in, PAF wins, would you agree?


Nonetheless, this does not mean we imply that if (God Forbid) they meet in a third war PAF will win.

Correlation does not imply Causation.

I agree on PAF's good performance against Israel in the past.

But I do not agree on some of the comments made by your countrymen that PAF skillsets and training are even today better than IsAF, and the basis to make such a comment is encounter of the 70's, now that's incorrect and too much of generalization.

 

[F86 Saber]

You my friend didn't notice.


PAF was flying aircraft it wasn't used to. Mig 21s to be precise.

They shot down Mirage, which at the time was one of the most lethal aircraft.

Today PAF flies F-16s just like IAF and is getting JF-17s and future looks to have J-10s.

PAF seems to be more like coming par to IAF in lethality.

Ummm PAF had experience on F-7's which were quite similar to Mig -21's. The only reason PAF pilots succeeded has been adequately explained by Mr. Santro that the Israeli's never expected any fightback and were taken by surprise. However this does not undermine the superior skill set of the PAF pilots.

I always lol at this "Times have Changed" argument mostly by the Indians who still think that PAF would be at the same level where they were 40 years ago.

 

[prototype]

And you think you are not a fan boy!

have any better reply other than one liners,i think u dont have,because that's ur speciality

 

[LEGENDARY WARRIOR]

good to know that no one THANKED me for my USEFUL post but still discussions are going on. . .

keep it up. . .