Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions.

[ghazi52]

Pakistan send aid for the People of Lebanon

 

[ghazi52]

Today (8th August 2017) 3rd Shahadat anniversary of Wg Cdr Zeeshan Atta OC 18 Sqn. May Allah give him the highest rank in Jannah, Ameen!

 

[air marshal]

https://falcons.pk/photo/Lockheed-Martin-F-16D-Fighting-Falcon/2927

 

[ghazi52]

 

[ghazi52]

 

[air marshal]

https://falcons.pk/photo/Dassault-Mirage-VPA/2263

 

[air marshal]

https://falcons.pk/photo/Sherdils-Aerobatic-Team/2920

 

[ghazi52]

 

[ghazi52]

Weather conditions Right Now In
PAF Sakesar Soon valley

 

[m52k85]

Just an update since I was doing some reading. Here is how the air-superiority (my definition is based on BVR capability, yes I know there is a lot more to it but you have to have a cutoff for analysis) balance looks like and will look like for the foreseeable future:

1. Current Pic:

IAF: 13 MKI, 3 Mirage, 3 Mig29 squadrons + Navy 2 Mig-29 Squadrons
Paf: 4 F-16 & 5 Jf-17 squadrons
Ratio: 19:9 squadrons (21:9 if IN included)
​

2. 2021 Picture:

IAF: Adds 2 LCA squadrons (no. 45 already stood-up with IOC MK-1s and no.18 in process with FOC MK-1s)
https://www.livefistdefence.com/202...-for-5-2-billion-lca-tejas-fighter-order.html
PAF: Adds 1 JF-17 Blk-II squadron (conversion of no.18 sharp shooters)
Ratio: 21:10 squadrons (23:10 if IN included)
​

3. 2023 Picture:

IAF: Adds 3 squadrons (1 LCA MK-1A aesa equiped and 2 FOC Rafale squadrons)
PAF: Adds 3 Jf-17 Blk3 squadrons
Ratio: 24:13 squadrons --> best ratio expected​

Beyond 2023 to the 2027 period, it is unclear but it seems IAF will atleast add 2 more LCA MK-1A squadrons, what PAF will add is anyones guess (please dont start that discussion here since its already hot on other threads).

Beyond 2027 it will be race of the India economy vis-vis more Rafales or getting another Medium weight foreign buy and India development of 5th gen vs our Azm.

As far as ground attack goes things are looking the most encouraging for us in a long time. With the retirement of all Indian Mig-27s they have only 6 squadrons of Jaguars to our 5 squadrons of Mirages. The ratio in this 'obsolete category' will continue to remain the same till their complete retirement from both sides by 2028-2030.

Incase of protracted operations it will be fair to assume that WVR only aircraft will also serve in denying enemy ground attack aircrafts, upto 2025 IAF will have 6 squadrons of Mig-21 Bisons to our 3 squadrons of F-7PGs. Also note, all Bison's are Pakistan oriented per their home base placement, but since this category is point-defense the 2:1 ratio doesn't really matter.

P.S the Bison's BVR capability has been discarded as the comments from military circles that have come out since feb last year puts that capability as a non-starter.

 

[Yasser76]

Just an update since I was doing some reading. Here is how the air-superiority (my definition is based on BVR capability, yes I know there is a lot more to it but you have to have a cutoff for analysis) balance looks like and will look like for the foreseeable future:

1. Current Pic:

IAF: 13 MKI, 3 Mirage, 3 Mig29 squadrons + Navy 2 Mig-29 Squadrons
Paf: 4 F-16 & 5 Jf-17 squadrons
Ratio: 19:9 squadrons (21:9 if IN included)
​

2. 2021 Picture:

IAF: Adds 2 LCA squadrons (no. 45 already stood-up with IOC MK-1s and no.18 in process with FOC MK-1s)
https://www.livefistdefence.com/202...-for-5-2-billion-lca-tejas-fighter-order.html
PAF: Adds 1 JF-17 Blk-II squadron (conversion of no.18 sharp shooters)
Ratio: 21:10 squadrons (23:10 if IN included)
​

3. 2023 Picture:

IAF: Adds 3 squadrons (1 LCA MK-1A aesa equiped and 2 FOC Rafale squadrons)
PAF: Adds 3 Jf-17 Blk3 squadrons
Ratio: 24:13 squadrons --> best ratio expected​

Beyond 2023 to the 2027 period, it is unclear but it seems IAF will atleast add 2 more LCA MK-1A squadrons, what PAF will add is anyones guess (please dont start that discussion here since its already hot on other threads).

Beyond 2027 it will be race of the India economy vis-vis more Rafales or getting another Medium weight foreign buy and India development of 5th gen vs our Azm.

As far as ground attack goes things are looking the most encouraging for us in a long time. With the retirement of all Indian Mig-27s they have only 6 squadrons of Jaguars to our 5 squadrons of Mirages. The ratio in this 'obsolete category' will continue to remain the same till their complete retirement from both sides by 2028-2030.

Incase of protracted operations it will be fair to assume that WVR only aircraft will also serve in denying enemy ground attack aircrafts, upto 2025 IAF will have 6 squadrons of Mig-21 Bisons to our 3 squadrons of F-7PGs. Also note, all Bison's are Pakistan oriented per their home base placement, but since this category is point-defense the 2:1 ratio doesn't really matter.

P.S the Bison's BVR capability has been discarded as the comments from military circles that have come out since feb last year puts that capability as a non-starter.

Interesting summary, the loss of 10 Jaguar/MIG-21 squadrons will hit hard. Best case scenario will be these will be replaced by 2 LCA squadrons and 1 second hand MIG-29 upgrade squadron, so deficit here of 7 squadrons.

PAF is in a predicament two as we will need to look at replacing 4 Mirage units and 3 F-7PG units (although I suspect we may retain the F-7PGs are aggressors/trainers). However over the next 10 years it is not impossible for PAC and China to churn out another 100 JF-17s and also upgrade existing Blocks. So PAF should net out at a loss of only 2 squadrons, whilst also getting a decent incremental upgrade to existing squadrons of JF-17. This is also does not take into account the possibility of getting second hand F-16s during this period.

Of course after 10 years PAF maybe in the very excellent position of inducting a 5th Gen fighter. I think just like PAF getting F-16 in early 80s this will be a game changer and it is a shock that while countries like Norway, South Korea and Israel have all got their hands on F-35, Russia and China have their own aircraft, India will be left behind. Rafale will be old tech on a 5th Gen world....

 

[m52k85]

Interesting summary, the loss of 10 Jaguar/MIG-21 squadrons will hit hard. Best case scenario will be these will be replaced by 2 LCA squadrons and 1 second hand MIG-29 upgrade squadron, so deficit here of 7 squadrons.

PAF is in a predicament two as we will need to look at replacing 4 Mirage units and 3 F-7PG units (although I suspect we may retain the F-7PGs are aggressors/trainers). However over the next 10 years it is not impossible for PAC and China to churn out another 100 JF-17s and also upgrade existing Blocks. So PAF should net out at a loss of only 2 squadrons, whilst also getting a decent incremental upgrade to existing squadrons of JF-17. This is also does not take into account the possibility of getting second hand F-16s during this period.

Of course after 10 years PAF maybe in the very excellent position of inducting a 5th Gen fighter. I think just like PAF getting F-16 in early 80s this will be a game changer and it is a shock that while countries like Norway, South Korea and Israel have all got their hands on F-35, Russia and China have their own aircraft, India will be left behind. Rafale will be old tech on a 5th Gen world....

Thanks, I should have included the emergency order of a squadron of Mig-29s as well.

 

[The Raven]

It's also worth remembering that the Su-30s will undergo the "super 30" upgrade, which will add a pretty large and powerful AESA among other avionic and weapon upgrades.

 

[Yasser76]

It's also worth remembering that the Su-30s will undergo the "super 30" upgrade, which will add a pretty large and powerful AESA among other avionic and weapon upgrades.

Yes, but 1) that is not even a signed contract yet, and going by the very slow progress of Mirage and MOG-29 upgades a timeline of signing that and setting up HAL to implement it, testing it then putting it on 270 aircraft all within 10 years is VERY optimistic.
2) IAF SU-30 Servicability rates still hover at around 50% (hence the rush for spare parts and support during China-India stand off), effectively IAF only really has 6 sqaudrons of these planes for the fight, not 11. Most fighter servicabiity rates are between 70-90%

 

[air marshal]

https://falcons.pk/photo/JF-17B-Thunder/1169