Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions.

[BHarwana]

Are u sick...do u even know whats the strategy of Paf in warfare?Do u think Paf doesnt know how to tackle bvr engagements?
Paf is a force that practices 1 vs 5 scenarios bcuz it knows it will always be short at numbers.Similarly it practices to bring the Red team with Wvr bcuz it knows its will always be at lower tech than its enemy.
How do u think Paf has guts to send an F7pg or even a Mirage whoz hud barely works to Intercept the enemy's Su30...bcuz it flies daily and practices these kinds of things all day long.
I tell u Paf has taken down J10s and u say it was an exercise...if u have so many paf pilots as friends then ask them about this engagement and they will tell u what the matter really was...until then stop claiming that falan jahaz can never take down falan jahaz and stop comparing Paf with Iranis.If only tech mattered then saudi IFVs wouldnt be getting their a** kicked in yemen or their F15s getting shot down.

Give an authentic link of order cancellation please. This is a valid request.

 

[Talon]

Give an authentic link of order cancellation please. This is a valid request.

Yeah now u hv got nothing to say so u are coming to the only point u hv got..which i hv already answered in first part of my previous post.
Its useless to talk to you..Allah Hafiz and Peace!

 

[BHarwana]

Yeah now u hv got nothing to say so u are coming to the only point u hv got..which i hv already answered in first part of my previous post.
Its useless to talk to you..Allah Hafiz and Peace!

There is no order cancellation info that is why you cannot provide me any link I know that but I will give you 100% credit that I might be wrong as well because of secrecy around the procurement. But J-10b is a good jet with all listed specs it is better than F-16.

 

[BHarwana]

Absolute third category BS. Stop this nonsense, it has gone on for too long already.

Agreed. lol

 

[CriticalThought]

Agreed. lol

OK, I knew you were pulling our legs. Now I'll delete the post

 

[sparten]

JF17, with AEW, BVR and LOAL is a sufficient interceptor. Even versus MKI or Rafael. What FGF-Azm would be is an Air superiority fighter. Useful for deep penetration strike missions, defending the strike aircraft.

 

[BHarwana]

OK, I knew you were pulling our legs. Now I'll delete the post

Let it make it simple the deal was signed and WS-10 part of the deal is still alive but I have no info on how this part of the deal will be used, will it be used in JF-17 J-10b or what ever way PAF has in mind. Pakistan needs interceptor and JF-17 block 3 will complete that role or they will find something else but it will be done until then J-7P/PG and Mirage will remain in service. This is the point that cannot be ignored.

 

[CriticalThought]

Let it make it simple the deal was signed and WS-10 part of the deal is still alive but I have no info on how this part of the deal will be used, will it be used in JF-17 J-10b or what ever way PAF has in mind. Pakistan needs interceptor and JF-17 block 3 will complete that role or they will find something else but it will be done until then J-7P/PG and Mirage will remain in service. This is the point that cannot be ignored.

Agreed. There is also the possibility that they will quietly re-engineer the F-16s to satisfy their own requirements. But that is mere speculation on my part.

 

[SQ8]

I was told in 2014 by a Paf pilot that the order has been canceled so that 2013 source of yours stands invalid..atleast in my books.

I was told in 2012 by current CPD JF-17 that we were broke as hell. So I don’t see where the 2013 news or order comes in. The “news” itself seems like a rehash.

 

[Tank131]

@BHarwana, a few things. Firstly J-10 top speed is mach 2.2, F-16 is Mach 2, F-7 is Mach 2, Mirage 3 is Mach 2. They are all in the same general speed range. Saying they are faster this or that doesnt tlchamge anything. The truth of the matter is that the full speed of the fighter is not significant in the modern era. Tell me which top flight airforce uses point defense interceptors still. Rather the focus is on multirole or omnirole. Now to the point of the J-10; it is a good multirole fighter. Its benefit, however in PAF is limited by the fact that is performance (with granted exception of top speed) is smack in the middle of JF-17 and F-16, both of which PAF operate in large numbers. So it offers nothing new in terms of capability, and what new stuff it does bring (electronics and avionics) will likely find their way to the JF-17 blk 3. Yes PAF had initially placed. An. Order for 36, but that was a few years back and nothing materialized. Then the WS-10 came to fruition, however, it is unlikely that PAF would not have been able to get AL-31 given the improved relationship with russia and the the fact that they already get RD-93, the engine was not likely the issue that was holding PAF from inducing the fighter. Rather it was the performance space it occupied (marginally better than JF-17 and marginally worse than F-16).

Now, will anyone be able to prove that the type wont be acquired. Probably not until the FGF or block JF-17 Blk 3 is inducted will we here that the J-10 has been passed by, or until the J-10 is actually in PAF can we say for sure that it will be. Thats how Pakistan's military operates...under conditions of ambiguity.

IMHO the time if the dedicated interceptors is over. The only reason F-7 and Mirage are in service in PAF is because they don't have enough money to to replace them all at once.

 

[BHarwana]

IMHO the time if the dedicated interceptors is over. The only reason F-7 and Mirage are in service in PAF is because they don't have enough money to to replace them all at once.

Pakistan made the deal in 2009 for J-10 and if Pakistan wanted to replace them then they could. but they did not the only reason Pakistan is not replacing them is because Pakistan has home facility to overhaul them and replace parts. Plus these jets have become sanction free for Pakistan. The J-10b was chosen because of it's good capabilities in Northern areas of Pakistan. Now it all depends on WS-10 engine being integrated into JF-17 if that is done Pakistan don't needs J-10b. There is one more thing that could result in the induction of J10-b is the CPEC and over sea role because platform has been widely successful on the east cost of China.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Now it all depends on WS-10 engine being integrated into JF-17 if that is done Pakistan don't needs J-10b.

what are you talking about WS-10 in JF-17 not possible in 2009 there is no J-10b is their but J-10A was resons behind the rejection of J-10 in 2009 that it will not bring any new capabilities to PAF when its compare to PAF's F-16 and as for your information J-10 is way a head in thee term of capabilities when its compare to JF-17 better avionics better range, better T/W ratio ( means better agility/maneuverability)better payloads etc etc, think logically Mr @BHarwana

 

[Safriz]

https://twitter.com/x/status/956977984849801221

 

[araz]

Give an authentic link of order cancellation please. This is a valid request.

You know as well as everyone else that neither China nor Pakistan would want to do that. China made a pact to procure 150 JFT. Did it do so and where did you see their cancellation order? These things just do not happen
The provision of older 16s and MLU has meant PAF is happy to carry on with JFT and 16s. There is no reason to buy an additional platform. There are problems with the AL31 and WS10 has not matured sufficiently for it to be in recokening. There were reports of spectacular J10 flame outs..Main reason for not going for J10 is that it brings nothing on the table for PAF. They have put their money on the JFT and buying another platform would send out the wrong message possibly affecting sale. The 16s are excluded as PAF already has them and they can be easily incorporated into our system. If you look at the last CAS interview he has given some specs of the FGF and it will be either j20 or some other platform. J31 is shortlegged and needs money pouring into it for development. So the likely scenario is a twin engined lo observability platform with an extensive range and internal bays.
A

 

[Tank131]

Pakistan made the deal in 2009 for J-10 and if Pakistan wanted to replace them then they could. but they did not the only reason Pakistan is not replacing them is because Pakistan has home facility to overhaul them and replace parts. Plus these jets have become sanction free for Pakistan. The J-10b was chosen because of it's good capabilities in Northern areas of Pakistan. Now it all depends on WS-10 engine being integrated into JF-17 if that is done Pakistan don't needs J-10b. There is one more thing that could result in the induction of J10-b is the CPEC and over sea role because platform has been widely successful on the east cost of China.

Respectfully you are making many errors.
1. If PAF wanted to replace them (mirage 3 and f-7) it would have. PAF does want to replace them. By the ACM own account, there are 190 fighters needing replacement. Which are those? Obviously they are F-7P, Mirage 3/5 (then rose 1/2/3 Mirage), tuen F-7PG. The reason the PGs may last the longest is they are newer airframes (the oldest are only 17yrs old delivered in 2001). That was the reason for seeking more F-16s. The Jordanian F-16s would have enabled a sqd to conver quickly from F-7P to a more advanced multirole fighter. They will rapidly replace all F-7P/PG and Mirages if they had the funds and airframe availability.

2. The WS-10 will never get fit into the JF-17. For starters, its too large. Additionally its probably too powerful for the airframe to handle. The WS-13E/WS-19maybe. Maybe the RD-93MK, But unlikely to get WS-10.

3. The J-10b was non-existent in 2009. Infact the J-10B specifically came about because the performance of the J-10A was subpar per PAF and the B version was created to specifically address the shortcomings identified by PAF. Problem is that the J-10b is not likely to offer performance advantages over the JF-17 to justify the higher cost. Furthermore the electronic advantages it holds will find their way to blk 3 at a cheaper cost. That is why no other nation has elected J-10 yet despite being offered. Nigeria amd Myanmar both went for JF-17 and Argentina was considering it until china revoked the offer of C-802A under British pressure and then the Argentine government changed. Those who could afford J-10 in numbers can usually get western equipment. Those who could benefit from its capabilities cant afford it. The only other nation who could get it financially is Pakistan and you already have Fighters filling the exact role (which is a multirole and strike platform more than an interceptor).