Pakistan Air Force needs to replace 190 planes by 2020

[Zain Malik]

I think Pakistan need to have more focus on its economic sector........I dont think there will be a war between Pakistan and India for at least 10 years to come.....

After 2020, all the plane should be replaced by 5 generation fighters, no need to be rush.

Well confidently said that there will be no war b/w India and Pakistan Bro. you don't know them the Indians have no faith they can even attack Pakistan tonight well they don't dare to do that..........!!!!!

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

In my post i agreed with you that it is the ROSE Mirages that need to be replaced 1:1. The options we agree on (more F-16s, Flankers or JF-17). But i disagree with you that the JF-17 doesnt need to be scaled up. The end reality is that eventually PAF will need to replace the F-16 with the ideal replacement being FC-31. The issue is that PAF wont be able to afford 1:1 replacement and as such would lose vital strike capabilities. An enlarged JF-17 would not be an expensive solution in the long run and would probably still be less expensive than F-16 and definitely less than 1:1 FC-31 Replacement. I dont see flankers or jh-7b coming which is why i make this suggestion.

By the time PAF would be getting the FC-31 Pakistan would be ranking on one of top 10 countries economy wise. The required assets would be available till that time. Even some other options would also be available because that is good 10-15 yrs away.

Now if you look at the US they have upgraded the F-18's to the Growler update and stealth weapons pod giving it semi-stealth capabilities hence they can be used till 2050. The same has been done for the F-15's and B-52's have also been updated.

Flankers like the Su-27 and Su-30 or the Chinese J-11 series would not be upgraded to this till the SU-35 is purchased by China. Now if the deal is finalized then PAF would also look to get these so that both China and Pakistan can share the research and share the engine in future purchases.

Pakistan knows that the PAK-FA is not going to be available but is the Russian economy remains the same then they are going to offer the PAK-FA to China and Pakistan in the next 5-7 years.

Rose Mirages should be replace by a 1:1 ratio and the best option would be to replace it with a similar platform i.e Mirage 2000's or the Rafales.

As far as France is concerned they have historically supported both side so technically speaking if the Rafales are not purchased by Indian as they have planed then they would be offered to Pakistan.
The original requirement by IAF was of 126 aircraft which has now been reduced to 36 that to if signed.
The orders given by Egypt and UAE could be higher and if the NATO like Alliance is agreed upon as the Saudi's then they are hoping for a major contract.

This is the reason why USA is also interested in providing the 18 F-16.

 

[Khurram2349]

Forget about more F-16s from USA which always comes with 'conditions'. Our best and most reliable source for military hardware is China and PAF should go for FC-20s as stop gap solution added by advance JF-17s followed by FC-31 , the Chinese Stealth !!!

 

[monitor]

190 will replace by 200 JF-17 and more F-16 will join to fill high end fighter. Should try to get other option like Euro fighter as some Pakistan's a k friendly countries have acquire it along will J-11d/su-35

 

[Tank131]

By the time PAF would be getting the FC-31 Pakistan would be ranking on one of top 10 countries economy wise. The required assets would be available till that time. Even some other options would also be available because that is good 10-15 yrs away.

Now if you look at the US they have upgraded the F-18's to the Growler update and stealth weapons pod giving it semi-stealth capabilities hence they can be used till 2050. The same has been done for the F-15's and B-52's have also been updated.

Flankers like the Su-27 and Su-30 or the Chinese J-11 series would not be upgraded to this till the SU-35 is purchased by China. Now if the deal is finalized then PAF would also look to get these so that both China and Pakistan can share the research and share the engine in future purchases.

Pakistan knows that the PAK-FA is not going to be available but is the Russian economy remains the same then they are going to offer the PAK-FA to China and Pakistan in the next 5-7 years.

Rose Mirages should be replace by a 1:1 ratio and the best option would be to replace it with a similar platform i.e Mirage 2000's or the Rafales.

As far as France is concerned they have historically supported both side so technically speaking if the Rafales are not purchased by Indian as they have planed then they would be offered to Pakistan.
The original requirement by IAF was of 126 aircraft which has now been reduced to 36 that to if signed.
The orders given by Egypt and UAE could be higher and if the NATO like Alliance is agreed upon as the Saudi's then they are hoping for a major contract.

This is the reason why USA is also interested in providing the 18 F-16.

The economy getting strong is stuff we have heard for the last 20 years. It goes up and down. Even if it does get into the top 10, that means to turn back on the progress of self reliance because others want your money?

As for the growler and modern F-16s, you have made my point for me regarding an enlarged JF-17. The F/A-18 A/B/C/D would not be capable of serving as long as 2030, let alone 2050. They would simply be too far outdated. The Super Hornet (E/F/ amd growler G) was designed as an enlarged and modified variant of the hornet just as @MastanKhan and I have recommended. This enables it to carry more ordinance at longer range, have far better subsystems, and improved rcs and serve on much longer than its previous versions. The JF-17 post - block3 should recieve this type of adjustment (F-16 did it 2x, c/d version and mitsubishi F-2). It will dramatically improve every aspect of the JF-17s capabilities with some minor changes that in practice dont need considerable redesign, mostly just scaling.

Replacing ROSE Mirages with Rafale would have been great if 1)India wasnt going to operate it amd 2) PAF had the $$. M2k is out of the question. You dont operate the type, its capabilities are no better than the F-16 which you already operate, and when the JF-17 is in production and can operate at physically 80% of the m2k capabilities you are adding a logistical headache to the fleet to now learn a new type of craft, maintain it, and do so temporarily because all airframes are used and will be replaced soon. Used F-16s already have a logistical base in tue fleet so adding them is cheaper and more effective. And please dont equate M2k to mirage 3 and 5. Maintaining them is not the same.

 

[MastanKhan]

@Tank131 @Irfan Baloch @Khafee @Viper0011.

My thinking has always been that you major weapons system should be of the capability that your enemy must think of peace overtures of some kind at some stage.

That is what the basic function of a major weapons system is---to bring peace---amongst other things.

Pakistan had the opportunity of buying the Rafale after 9/11 and they had the funds as well---also the delay in placing the order of 72 F16's did not reduce the problems either---and when the earthquake came----.

And paf---out of sheer idiocy declared openly that we do not have the money anymore---we have donated it to the earthquake cause---.

That declaration was the stupidity of the highest caliber---why do you want your enemy to know you don't have the money.

Now coming to the growler part----again the JH7B is the best available aircraft for growler type capabilites.

It can carry a heavy jammers---extra fuel tanks for very long loiter time and can carry a few BVR & WVR missiles for protection---and if possible can be equipped with buddy refueller as well.

People talk about the price of the Rafale---with the right numbers---the peace overtures would be there---so you would not have problems in economy due to sabotage by the enemy.

 

[Zarvan]

"Discouraged" by the resistance it was facing in the U.S. Congress to buy a small batch of 8 F-16 fighters, Pakistan is looking to Russia or France to buy replacements for 190 aircraft it wants to retire by 2020.

“We do need to retire 190 planes by 2020. And we already looking for various options,” a senior official told DAWN, as the country is still in discussion stage with the US to buy eight jets.

Jane’s reported recently that Pakistan may purchase 10 more F-16s if the current deal for eight of these fighter jets is successfully concluded.

“But we are looking at other options too, such as buying them from Russia or France,” the official said.

However, official noted that French aircraft were “very expensive, the Russians are not and they are equally good”.

In September last year, Russia offered to sell Su-35 planes to Pakistan, which are among the fifth generation aircraft.

Pakistani officials say that India’s defence purchases also influence their search for a matching technology. India is already working on a plan to replace its current fleet of planes with fifth generation aircraft by 2020, forcing Pakistan to do the same.

Pakistani officials point out that they also have a large-scale defence collaboration with China, “which is a great source of strength” for the country.

Pakistan is currently in talks with the United States to buy two single-seat F-16Cs and six twin-seat F-16Ds, along with associated equipment - for about $699 million.

Pakistan Considering Russian, French Aircraft To Replace 190 Fighter Planes

@MastanKhan It seem they finally woke up.

 

[Donald Trump]

In September last year, Russia offered to sell Su-35 planes to Pakistan, which are among the fifth generation aircraft.

Source: Pakistan Considering Russian, French Aircraft To Replace 190 Fighter Planes

Firstly, there was no official offer from Russia to sell SU-35 to Pakistan.

Secondly, the SU-35 isn't a 5th gen fighter!

Thirdly, will it be affordable to Pakistan? A SU-35 costs $60 million a pop (Rs 600 crores PKR). Even inducting one squadron would cost a mind boggling $1 billion or more than Rs 10,000 crores PKR!

French aircraft? Which ones?

 

[Sulman Badshah]

Firstly, there was no official offer from Russia to sell SU-35 to Pakistan.

Putin personal secretary and Russian defence minister have made statement regarding it...

 

[Paksanity]

Firstly, there was no official offer from Russia to sell SU-35 to Pakistan.

Secondly, the SU-35 isn't a 5th gen fighter!

Thirdly, will it be affordable to Pakistan? A SU-35 costs $60 million a pop (Rs 600 crores PKR). Even inducting one squadron would cost a mind boggling $1 billion or more than Rs 10,000 crores PKR!

French aircraft? Which ones?

If we order something be assured we will have the money. I appreciate your concern.
French aircraft is Rafale. If you keep dragging your feet on Rafale, we might step in. French are already bugged and there receing new orders too. Already there is talk of military alliance in Riyadh. Rafale may be good choice given that Qatar, Egypt and UAE are getting it.

 

[Malik Usman]

And we're expected to believe that? Are we morons? So the terrorists are precision bombed by high tech F-16s whilst hiding in a crowd of civilians without causing collateral damage?

These planes are to be used against India. Period!

And same questions goes to India..........They need a strong air force or Army for what purpose.???..........a self claimed Enemy (China) or Just Pakistan.

 

[Donald Trump]

And same questions goes to India..........They need a strong air force or Army for what purpose.???..........a self claimed Enemy (China) or Just Pakistan.

Both!

 

[janu.bravo]

Firstly, there was no official offer from Russia to sell SU-35 to Pakistan.

Secondly, the SU-35 isn't a 5th gen fighter!

Thirdly, will it be affordable to Pakistan? A SU-35 costs $60 million a pop (Rs 600 crores PKR). Even inducting one squadron would cost a mind boggling $1 billion or more than Rs 10,000 crores PKR!

French aircraft? Which ones?

There is a history behind Pakistan's defence procurement, when we need something we buy it. Money was never problem in any past procurement. e.g Saab eri-eye, Chinese AWACS, F-16's, Agosta-90b, JF-17, F-22 frigates etc. When Defense personal feels that we need SU-35 we will procure it even if we have to spent 5 billion dollars. Pakistan knows how to arrange money to procure weapons.

 

[optimisticlad]

With Sheer economic growth of India and slump and sluggish economy of Pak.

Lets forget the deterrence by conventional weapons...
Pak. Just relying on nukes....

 

[Tank131]

It is mostly a political statement. Yes PAF could theoretically go for Su-35, but I dont see PAF getting in bed with the French any time soon (British/German/Italian i.e. Typhoon is more likely than Rafale...though neither are very likely). They are selling Rafale to IAF so trying to go for it would be stupid AND PAF was already thoroughly pissed off when France refused to deal with them regarding avionics for the JF-17 and then when IAF deal looked like it was falling through, again tried to offer RC400. The PAF basically showed the french the middle finger and said the updated Chinese system (KLJ-7V2) was better than the French radar.