Pakistan aims for transformative $30-50b investment boost in agri sector

[epebble]

That is a misleading narrative. The Pakistani army has started and lost four wars with India, its policies have made Afghans intractable enemies and its repression has engendered insurgencies in various parts of Pakistan. The commercial enterprises they run are extremely inefficient and can only survive because of the huge direct and indirect subsidies the army extracts from the Pakistani people.

After capturing all of the resources of the state, it is natural that the army will appear to complete some tasks better than the resource-starved civil society, just like administration, facilitated by highly-paid civil servants funded by extractive taxes, seemed to be better under British rule compared to the chaos that followed after Partition.

Nothing that you describe proves that there is an institution that is better functioning than the army. Their civilian government
(1) can't maintain law and order
(2) can't maintain basic financial hygiene
(3) can't provide basic civil service like education and health
(4) destroys everything it touches: electrical system, railway, PIA etc.,

 

[HAIDER]

Right now Pakistan is tilted towards the West. Pakistan could go 70-30 towards China or the 70-30 towards the West. and still claim neutrality !!! Full dose of CPEC projects would have tilted the balance towards China. It is hard to deal with China given their penchant for secrecy and control. That is why I think the Pakistani Army used Imran Khan to halt some of the CPEC projects. I think a lot of the outreach towards the Saudis & USA is to improve bargaining position versus China. So far the Americans and Saudis have not really co-operated much.

I do not believe Imran Khan's complaints about being toppled by the CIA. Even though I have no clue why he was toppled from power. To be fair he looks somewhat competent in domestic issues to the circus that followed him. I cannot say the same about foreign policy even though I feel he is being the made the fall guy for foreign policy failures of others.

CPEC is dead, funds were badly abused during the Nawaz era , projects like Orange train and coal power plants, solar projects etc ... now Pak does not even have 1.2 billion to pay the installment of the loan. CPEC funds were badly and unplanned used in Fazlo and Achakzai constituencies by the permission of Nawaz... an example ...

 

[nahtanbob]

CPEC is dead, funds were badly abused during the Nawaz era , projects like Orange train and coal power plants, solar projects etc ... now Pak does not even have 1.2 billion to pay the installment of the loan. CPEC funds were badly and unplanned used in Fazlo and Achakzai constituencies by the permission of Nawaz... an example ...

I have no disagreement about the poor selections of projects

 

[TriptiD]

Nothing that you describe proves that there is an institution that is better functioning than the army. Their civilian government
(1) can't maintain law and order
(2) can't maintain basic financial hygiene
(3) can't provide basic civil service like education and health
(4) destroys everything it touches: electrical system, railway, PIA etc.,

As Winston Churchill said, democracy is the worst form of government, but it is better than all the best. The army or any government institution, for that matter, has no business being involved in farming. It is best left to private enterprise and initiative.

CPEC is dead, funds were badly abused during the Nawaz era , projects like Orange train and coal power plants, solar projects etc ... now Pak does not even have 1.2 billion to pay the installment of the loan. CPEC funds were badly and unplanned used in Fazlo and Achakzai constituencies by the permission of Nawaz... an example ...

Most of the projects were not economically viable even if funds had not been misused. When the Govt of Pakistan has guaranteed 20% dollar returns on infrastructure investment, it is clear that the only winners would be Chinese investors and generations of Pakistanis taxpayers will foot the bill.

 

[epebble]

As Winston Churchill said, democracy is the worst form of government, but it is better than all the best. The army or any government institution, for that matter, has no business being involved in farming. It is best left to private enterprise and initiative.

Churchill didn't live long to see Pakistan, otherwise he might have amended his saying with exceptions. Even today, support for real democracy, as in coexistence of difference of opinion is very weak, not just in Pakistan but in many places. A lot of people are hungering for stability and development, be it China with CCP or Russia with Putin. Even on this forum, when people pine for democracy, few people want the other side to win, they just want their pet team. If they can't get their preferred party, most would prefer military rule than the opposition. Many Pakistanis genuinely desire Sharia law that is basically authoritarianism by one man, the Caliph. There is a lot of admiration for Turkey's Erdogan, for example. His most famous and honest quote is - Democracy is a Streetcar, You get down when you reach your destination.

Democracy is Like a Tram | Turkey Institute

In the mid-1990s, the mayor of Istanbul, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, was quoted as saying, "Democracy is like a tram. You ride it until you arrive at your destination, then you step off." Erdogan, who is now president of Turkey, has decidedly stepped off the tram.

www.turkeyinstitute.org.uk

 

[Olympus81]

I see Indians doing making idiotic comments and Pakistanis in their blind hatred for the establishment playing along.

Pakistan would not be in existence had it lost 4 wars against India.

Coming back to the topic, agriculture is not the army’s domain. One cannot barge forward with the idea and expect it to happen. The army’s plan of action is always kinetic. It is in their nature. This very fact doesn’t allow them to think about building an ecosystem which is required for succeeding in agriculture sector.

Learn from Vietnam, Thailand.

Water infrastructure, farming techniques, monetary support, logistics, ease of trade. These are some of the things a government should focus on. And it’s an ongoing journey of improvements through multiple iterations.

 

[Meengla]

I do not believe Imran Khan's complaints about being toppled by the CIA. Even though I have no clue why he was toppled from power. To be fair he looks somewhat competent in domestic issues to the circus that followed him. I cannot say the same about foreign policy even though I feel he is being the made the fall guy for foreign policy failures of others.

I think I have said it many many times what I truly believe about Imran Khan's fall: His was the age-old tussle for power between the military and the civilians in Pakistan going back to the mid-1970s with ZAB. Imran basically wanted continual power and for that the route was his favorite Army Chief appointment--and he was not alone as his predecessors also tried with some success but much failure. On principle I'd support Imran for the civilian supremacy but I absolutely don't believe his motives were to 'challenge' the 'establishment'. He was propped up by the establishment and during his rule, what the hell he did to challenge the establishment? On the contrary!!!

His slogan about 'real freedom' was first used to rally against America and then against Bajwa personally and finally he expanded that to include the entire establishment.

But, yes, Pakistan was better off under him and I wish he was allowed to complete his term. He had the backing of the establishment and so he could implement policies. That his popularity had greatly sunk by March 2022 must not be forgotten--there is a reason he tried to avoid the NCM while not calling for elections. The new PDM govt was just greedy tired old crew; I had low hopes from them but in their defense, until May 9 happened, Imran was dealt with velvet gloves despite a year of open insults toward the establishment, and the PDM was never sure where the establishment was . Heck, some even say that Imran will be taken out of the prison as some grand hero and given a super majority and both the establishment and Imran will rule for 10-15 years together--and I'd even welcome that as long as there is stability and continuation of policies. BUT Imran without the establishment behind him will not be able to form a stable, focused govt--the opposition does have a vote bank of their own-- and more instability is something very wrong for Pakistan given the dire situation.

In a nutshell, until next 10-15 years, Pakistan needs a stable 'hybrid' system given the dire situation facing Pakistan. I don't care if it would be a (refined) Imran or the good ol' Shehbaz Sharif sitting as the figurehead then.

Well... here I said again what I have been saying for months!

Churchill didn't live long to see Pakistan, otherwise he might have amended his saying with exceptions. Even today, support for real democracy, as in coexistence of difference of opinion is very weak, not just in Pakistan but in many places. A lot of people are hungering for stability and development, be it China with CCP or Russia with Putin. Even on this forum, when people pine for democracy, few people want the other side to win, they just want their pet team. If they can't get their preferred party, most would prefer military rule than the opposition. Many Pakistanis genuinely desire Sharia law that is basically authoritarianism by one man, the Caliph. There is a lot of admiration for Turkey's Erdogan, for example. His most famous and honest quote is - Democracy is a Streetcar, You get down when you reach your destination.

You have quite brilliantly expressed the Zeitgeist in large parts of the world!! Also, correct about the 'democrats' of Pakistan, although I believe the non-Imran parties have been chastised enough to know that there can be a 'fight another day' logic which Imran severely lacked/lacks!

 

[Jf Thunder]

Nothing that you describe proves that there is an institution that is better functioning than the army. Their civilian government
(1) can't maintain law and order
(2) can't maintain basic financial hygiene
(3) can't provide basic civil service like education and health
(4) destroys everything it touches: electrical system, railway, PIA etc.,

because faujis were appointed to those departments, and they ruined them and said "see, civilian departments cannot work"

A general heads the National Disaster Management Authority (NDMA), and when they cant handle disasters, the army is called in, citing "civilian" short comings by NDMA !

now as far as your points are concerned


1) Numerous LEAs are headed by generals
2) Economy is the prerogative if the "he who must not be named" and has always been so.
3) Education is headed by a General, while a General is also a member of the National Institute of Health.
4) WAPDA is run by a retired general, PIA is headed by an Air Marshal


civilians dont even get a chance to run these institutions !!

 

[A Voice of Reason]

What do you think will happen? 250 million people can't drown in sea. Pakistan will survive. whether it will flourish or muddle along is the question.

It will take some work...

Beyond the brink: Pakistan's population explosion | The Express Tribune

Us Pakistanis are a staggering 225 million people and counting … we’ll be more by the time you finish reading this.

tribune.com.pk

Net food importer – since 1990

“Pakistan has become a food importing country”. The sentence has been making rounds in the parliament, talk...

www.brecorder.com

With a 440 million projected population and continued net food importation even at todays mere 225 million, Pakistan like much of ME risks not faring well and being at the mercy of the forthcoming deglobalization

Future food importation will be probably be less reliable and likely more expensive. Food production in-country will be on ever more marginal land and at the mercy of the availability of agricultural inputs (machinery, pesticides, irrigation, fertilizers... ). In a deglobalized world those inputs are going to be harder to reliably and affordably secure.

"Drowning in the sea", if one was forced to chose heaven forbid, is actually one of the quicker endings. There are some frightening alternatives. Hunger for instance.

 

[epebble]

It will take some work...

Beyond the brink: Pakistan's population explosion | The Express Tribune

Us Pakistanis are a staggering 225 million people and counting … we’ll be more by the time you finish reading this.

tribune.com.pk

View attachment 958286

Net food importer – since 1990

“Pakistan has become a food importing country”. The sentence has been making rounds in the parliament, talk...

www.brecorder.com

With a 440 million projected population and continued net food importation even at todays mere 225 million, Pakistan like much of ME risks not faring well and being at the mercy of the forthcoming deglobalization

Future food importation will be probably be less reliable and likely more expensive. Food production in-country will be on ever more marginal land and at the mercy of the availability of agricultural inputs (machinery, pesticides, irrigation, fertilizers... ). In a deglobalized world those inputs are going to be harder to reliably and affordably secure.

"Drowning in the sea", if one was forced to chose heaven forbid, is actually one of the quicker endings. There are some frightening alternatives. Hunger for instance.

View attachment 958287

440 million will definitely be a hellscape. They can barely manage to survive at the current population level if the weather gods look kindly upon, year after year, without droughts or floods. With the climate change that is upon the globe, feeding the existing population will already be a challenge within our lifetimes without some revolutionary advancement in science.