Pakistan AESA Radar Hope

[Tiger Shark]

Although the following news has nothing to do with Pakistan, one can at least consider its future implications as PAF is a big customer of Grifo radars and Grifo S7 is considered (by many) to be the strongest contender for future JF-17s.

Finmeccanica Eyes U.K. E-scan Technology for New Radar
12/30/05 05:34
By TOM KINGTON, ROME

Finmeccanica is mulling an updated version of its Grifo airborne radar with electronically scanned array technology, according to Renzo Meschini, chief executive officer (CEO) of Finmeccanica unit Galileo Avionica.

The Grifo — 450 of which have been sold by Galileo Avionica — could be updated with e-scan technologies developed by former BAE SYSTEMS units that Finmeccanica has taken over in the United Kingdom, Meschini told reporters on Dec. 21.

Finmeccanica this year took a 75 percent stake in a new company, Selex Sensors and Airborne Systems (S&AS), which contains the former BAE avionics units and its own avionics arm, Galileo Avionica. BAE holds a 25 percent stake.

Meschini said the new radar, which would equip medium-sized fighter aircraft, is among the first examples of product synergies mulled by the new Anglo-Italian entity, and would be followed in January by Selex S&AS’s first joint budget.

“This document — which will plan ahead to 2008 — will contain the first cost and procurement savings, joint products and enhanced sales projections deriving from the synergies created through the creation of Selex S&AS,” he said.

Regards


Tiger

 

[ISI2003]

"medium sized aircraft"
J-10

it could probably e downsized for the JF-17
considering we are the grifo companies biggest customer, we are getting BAe technology

but does britian get to veto any sale, as they still have a 25% share, or is the grifo company going to develop something, and then we can buy it from them

 

[EagleEyes]

The question is would it be beneficial for Pakistan to equip its JF-17s with AESA radar or not. I think we should rather look into more advanced aircraft for equipping AESA radar, looking at that we can't afford many AESA radars on different fighters. An advanced fighter a truely 4th generation aircrafts should be bought and equipped with AESA radar to create a front line aggressive squadron. This will save money and will meet our requirements.

 

[Kaiser]

I thing there's a huge chance of pakistani getting this radar because

1) The Italinians are one of our best ally's who have bakced us up in situations where other European Country's didnt

2)We already Indougnously produce 2 different Grifo series under license

3)They are the only ones who are offering us TOT for the Grifo S7

4)Cheap and reliable

 

[ISI2003]

Originally posted by WebMaster@Jan 18 2006, 04:04 PM
The question is would it be beneficial for Pakistan to equip its JF-17s with AESA radar or not. I think we should rather look into more advanced aircraft for equipping AESA radar, looking at that we can't afford many AESA radars on different fighters. An advanced fighter a truely 4th generation aircrafts should be bought and equipped with AESA radar to create a front line aggressive squadron. This will save money and will meet our requirements.

[post=5477]Quoted post[/post]​

probably an increase of $1-2 million on each radar, including the ability to change different modes, simutaneously, and at the same time an increased range

thats an additonal $250 Million to $500 Million for the up to 250 JF-17

it really makes the JF-17 great, and marketable, and so any investment in geting this additional cpability will be reflected in foreign sales

which country wouldn't want for $20 MIllion, a fighter like the JF-17 with an AESA radar, it will pack some serious :bat:

 

[Kaiser]

Originally posted by ISI2003@Jan 18 2006, 10:42 PM
probably an increase of $1-2 million on each radar, including the ability to change different modes, simutaneously, and at the same time an increased range

thats an additonal $250 Million to $500 Million for the up to 250 JF-17

it really makes the JF-17 great, and marketable, and so any investment in geting this additional cpability will be reflected in foreign sales

which country wouldn't want for $20 MIllion, a fighter like the JF-17 with an AESA radar, it will pack some serious  :bat:

[post=5483]Quoted post[/post]​

Thank You ISI!!!!! I have said this millions of times,when nut heads claim that the JF-17 will be a too of an expansive aircraft.Do not forget that the PAF is a Qualitative Airforce not a Quantitative.Throughout its history the PAF have ruled the sky thanxs to its great Quality but over the past 2 decades the quality has been lost thanxs to sanctions .If the Thunder is equiped with an AESA verson of the Grifo S7, better engine, more payload, and also 2 more hardpoints, then the Thunder would rule the sky's of south asia for the years to come!!! All pakistan needs is around 250 thunders wich would only cost around 6 billion!!!

 

[ISI2003]

Originally posted by Kaiser@Jan 18 2006, 07:49 PM
Thank You ISI!!!!! I have said this millions of times,when nut heads claim that the JF-17 will be a too of an expansive aircraft.Do not forget that the PAF is a Qualitative Airforce not a Quantitative.Throughout its history the PAF have ruled the sky thanxs to its great Quality but over the past 2 decades the quality has been lost thanxs to sanctions .If the Thunder is equiped with an AESA verson of the Grifo S7, better engine, more payload, and also 2 more hardpoints, then the Thunder would rule the sky's of south asia for the years to come!!! All pakistan needs is around 250 thunders wich would only cost around 6 billion!!!

[post=5487]Quoted post[/post]​

your welcome, :army: ,
exactly, we are a quality force, and at least 60% of the future air force will be jf-17, these are the planes that will probably face su-30's, probably in equal numbers, so they have to be as good as possible

 

[Tiger Shark]

I agree. The PAF has very good relations with Galileo Avionica; there is no doubt FIAR would consider PAF interest in new radar technology. With the IAF threat rising, its evident the PAF cannot match the IAF aircraft per aircraft; it would have to rely on quality, and AESA is a must, no doubt.

Assuming that this new radar is being designed for medium-sized fighter aircraft, JF-17 immediately comes to mind. If the radar costs moderately, the PAF would probably love to equip a large number (if not all) of JF-17s with AESA and even F-16s if possible. Having ~200 JF-17s and F-16s equipped with AESA, BVR, and AWACS support would create an impressive air defence and offensive attack system.

 

[Tiger Shark]

According to some sources which is not quite confirm that this radar will probably built for JF-17 Thunder

Regards


Tiger

 

[Zeeshan S.]

Well i guess its not a bad idea after all to equip all the fighters with AESA radar, but one must get realistic about this. Although many rumours suggest that PAF has about 8 billions dollars in reserve, but the current question is how much will it cost to equip all the JF-17s and F-16s with AESA radar, its probably a quite big number that PAF can't handle. However, it will probably be a good idea to equip at least half or quater number of JF-17s with AESA radar, and then all of them can be divded into different squadrons, especially the ones near indian border. One aircraft with AESA radar can be handeled by a squadron leader supported by friendly aircrafts, also extra support if possible can be given by AWAC's.

It seems like if this all is possible than PAF is ready for tomorrow!

 

[ISI2003]

Originally posted by mysterious@Jan 19 2006, 04:19 AM
Well i guess its not a bad idea after all to equip all the fighters with AESA radar, but one must get realistic about this. Although many rumours suggest that PAF has about 8 billions dollars in reserve, but the current question is how much will it cost to equip all the JF-17s and F-16s with AESA radar, its probably a quite big number that PAF can't handle. However, it will probably be a good idea to equip at least half or quater number of JF-17s with AESA radar, and then all of them can be divded into different squadrons, especially the ones near indian border. One aircraft with AESA radar can be handeled by a squadron leader supported by friendly aircrafts, also extra support if possible can be given by AWAC's.

It seems like if this all is possible than PAF is ready for tomorrow!

[post=5508]Quoted post[/post]​

considering akistan will probably be spending $3 million on each radr for the jf-17 from the FIAR company, another $2 million per radar should not be that much

for 250 jf-17's that's an extra $500 million, a reasonable investment considering the price of other procurements

the real question is; can it forfill the requirement, will it be good enough, and can the radar for a medium sized fighter; j-10 (1000mm diameter radar), be downsized for a small fighter; jf-17 (600-660mm diameter radar)

 

[Zeeshan S.]

Can it fulfill our requirements? Why not?

All the JF-17s equipped with AESA radar with the combination of advance avionics can become a hell of an aircraft. The problem is about money, and the funds PAF have.

Though regarding the diameter and size for both aircrafts is still in question. China has not been yet successfully be able to create an AESA radar let alone that i can create a downsized version of it, but of course if Galileo Avionica can downsize it, that should be possible, but dependent on time.

 

[Salmaan]

It must be mentioned, that the AESA technology is present with the US only, and no other country.

The article mentions electronically scanned array technology. It must be mentioned that this is NOT the same as AESA. These are ESA radars, which scan electronically using phased waves. They still have some mechanical scanning and DO NOT have simultaneous scanning of air and ground like AESA.

USA does not provide AESA technology to any nation, including UK and France.

Also, it is unlikely that the F-16s which shall be purchased by Pakistan will have AESA radars, since these radars are present only on the Block 60 F-16s of UAE [ Qatar ?]. If I'm not mistaken, those F-16s were manufactured solely for that purchasing nation.

The Block 52 F-16s that Pakistan is purchasing from the US have pulse-doppler radars.

ESA radars are also present on Su-30 MKI, and the Rajendra phased-array radar of the Akash missile. Another example is the Captor radar on the EF-2000.

If the JF-17 gets ESA radars, it shall indeed have a very long range, but according to other articles on JF-17, Grifo shall provide a pulse-doppler radar without Track-while-scan capability.

 

[Dynasty]

Also, it is unlikely that the F-16s which shall be purchased by Pakistan will have AESA radars, since these radars are present only on the Block 60 F-16s of UAE [ Qatar ?]. If I'm not mistaken, those F-16s were manufactured solely for that purchasing nation.

Dude why dont you guys think positive sometimes? I know its natural to think and spread nagitivity about your enemy.

U.S would provide AESA radar to UK, Australia or any other country if it wants to. The AESA radar was approved by congress because UAE was giving a big buck of 6 billion dollars, and you dont want to miss that, so congress aproved the deal.

Same goes with the Pakistan and India if they have money they will get the AESA radar if they want to. You should probably know by now that the F-16 that was being offered to India included advance sophisticated technology including meeting the requirements of IAF.

The same shit goes with Pakistan, if it has money! :thumbsup:

But i guess UAE has full right to deny or approve the deal of its type of aircraft to any nation, and dont forget the relations between UAE and Pakistan..

And NO!! UAE is not QATAR. :wall:

 

[Neo]

I hate to say this guys, but just be realistic.
We may have been awared the MNNA status by US, no way Washington will approve FMS of such a highly profiled weapon to us coz of our close ties with China.
It took us seventeen years to get new F-16's and even they are substandard as better equipped F-16's are offered to UAE and India!!!
Even the AMRAAM is the -C version, not the latest.
So how can we even think that Uncle would give us Aesa and how do you suggest we integrate SD-10 into this radar as China won't relaese access codes to Americans....
I'm not an expert nor a strategist, but just Imho we're being patriots thinking we would get Aesa...