Pakistan: a nation with confused motives and a clear demise

[Pomegranate]

Do come next time when some Pakistani does the same. Its all mutual u see.

By da way, the post is not some Indian propaganda but an inner voice of Pakistan. Hence, it all calls for curiosity.

yes bro and this needs to be stopped from both sides ..........

 

[WAR-rior]

“Those who plead their cause in the absence of an opponent can invent to their heart's content, can pontificate without taking into account the opposite point of view and keep the best arguments for themselves, for aggressors are always quick to attack those who have no means of defence.” (Christine de Pizan, Der Sendbrief vom Liebesgott/ The Letter of the God of Love)

Perhaps the author could've bothered to gauge the 'empathy' of the Pakistani Nation when after the Peshawar Massacre we were holding protest rallies all over Pakistan or even the feeling that emanated after the Shikarpur Bombings.

Perhaps the author could've bothered to read Michael Scheur to realize what proxy-wars are and who is or isn't and was or wasn't playing this game in the region and the world at large before singularly focusing on Pakistan like a barnacle.

Perhaps the author could've realized that we don't live in a bipolar world where everything is in black and white hence the confusion that emanates from it amongst the masses.

But all of those 'perhaps' would require some intellectual honesty to begin with and that doesn't really make for a great article if all the arguments revolve around 'rhetoric' and nothing more.

Intellectual honesty. Your Perhaps lead to nowhere but Conspiracy theories. Pakistan once again questions such authors only on behest of beleiveing some conspiracy theories and putting the complete blame on others believing that everything inside is awesome and its the world which is conspiring against their best country in the world.

I wud say, go ahead with ur 'perhaps'. Suits everyone.

yes bro and this needs to be stopped from both sides ..........

To who all will u try explain. Good luck with ur efforts.

ON TOPIC : Why Pakistanis simply wanna blame others. Even India knows that due to Kashmir Pakistan is playing a proxy war inside our borders. So what did we do? We strengthen our defences and cleaned ourselves from within. Today, no muslim is a pawn in hands of Pakistan and its forces which was a truth in 20th century. India is nation of 20 Cr Muslims. Still Pakistan's proxy war needs export of Punjabi terrorists from Pakistan. Why? Coz we tackled it in that manner.

Why cant Pakistan do the same. Why cant u play in a manner that nobody can exploit ur weaknesses. dont u think the issue to solve shud be how to strengthen Pakistan rather than mere pointing fingers at outsiders and sighning off personal weaknesses. Pakistan so strongly say bout Indian role in Baluchistan. For us there can be multiple versions:

1. India is not invloved : Pakistan is simply naming India in Baluchistan so as to counter their involvement in Kashmir. World has seen Pakistani involvement in Kashmir but havent recognized Indian involvement in Baluchistan.

2.India is involved : India can be involved in Baluchistan but there is a larger story to it. We cant understand why are Pakistanis not able to or dont want to expose India? Frankly, you guyz are not even providing Indian people with fodder to ask our govt have chk on cross border proxy wars. In India, things happen when issues become electoral. Still waiting for international court ruling on India in baluchistan or any other province. Maybe, Pakistani forces want baluchistan insurgency to stay alive coz thats the latest counter against allegations and accusations of involvement in Kashmir. This helps hem from not getting defensive in front of its people and others. Suppose if there is no Baluchistan issue coz of International pressure on India, how will Pak Army carry forward Kashmir war? Afterall, matter of fact is Kashmiris of Indian Kashmir have given up armed fight completely.

 

[Armstrong]

Intellectual honesty. Your Perhaps lead to nowhere but Conspiracy theories. Pakistan once again questions such authors only on behest of beleiveing some conspiracy theories and putting the complete blame on others believing that everything inside is awesome and its the world which is conspiring against their best country in the world.

I wud say, go ahead with ur 'perhaps'. Suits everyone.

What the hell are you talking about ? If you can't understand my posts...why waste my time by replying to them ?

 

[Ind4Ever]

Posting excerpts from a long article.

Pakistan: a nation with confused motives and a clear demise

Just a few days ago, while some were celebrating the Super Bowl with succulent hot wings and guacamole, cheering for the Patriots, a father was stumbling through the rubble of Shikarpur Imam Bargah collecting pieces of his children’s’ bodies. Imagine the agony. He couldn’t leave even a single strand of hair behind; he had to gather the whole of his child, all of his children. Following the incident, our very own Jibran Nasir with a handful of civil society members came out asking the government to stand on their own two feet and do something right, for a change. He, with other protestors, sat in front of the CM house in Karachi for 30 straight hours demanding the government to identify banned organizations and repeal any luxury that those organizations are enjoying, including full protocol and security from Pakistanis’ tax money. The group demanded to take that security and protocol back, declare these organizations as terrorist organizations, arrest them and take them to court for cases that are already registered against them. It is appalling to know that our very own government is feeding and protecting terrorist organizations that have terrorized and killed thousands of its own citizens.

Well that was about the government, crippled and impotent. as always. It’s an old news, not worth wasting anyone’s time and insulting anyone’s intelligence. What about the public? It is true that our general public is very kind. When Shikarpur was flooded with blood and body parts, it was the public who started helping people out and managed to get them to the hospital. I noticed how for thirty hours Jibran kept the update going and kept appealing to the people to come out and sit with them and raise their voice against this terrorism. In his video that’s been circling around he said that it’s easier said than done. A very fiery message that sent chills down my spine, he called upon all the Shias saying it’s easy to call yourself a Hussaini but it’s very hard to become one and do what Hussain did, standing up against the tyranny. This should have been a country-wide protest, not just of a handful of civil society members. All of us saw, with dropped jaws, the amount of people who came out after the Charlie Hebdo incident, including French Muslims. Not just in France, where the streets were packed with vigils, people showed their solidarity for the killed cartoonists and against Islamic terrorism all over the world.

What if Shikarpur had happened in Palestine or Syria, and the perpetrators were Americans or Jews?

Wouldn’t the whole of Pakistan have come out on the streets? Why is it that when their own people are killed and butchered right there in their own backyard by their “own” people who are walking around fearless right around them, it doesn’t make their blood boil? Why do Pakistanis lack care and empathy so much for their own people? The same people who took all the wounded to the hospital in their arms and on their shoulders before ambulances arrived, are now quiet. Why do they feel more for the children who are killed in Palestine, than their own who were killed Peshawar and Shikarpur? Well, there is no explanation other than the idea that they have no humanity left; that, or, the idea that they protest for the dead children of Palestine, not for their sake, but to protest against Israel. The preference is different and so is the motive.

Pakistanis have proven themselves to be a dead nation who has gotten into a habit of asking for everything and not earning it. They are indifferent towards everything, but Skipper’s marriage, which makes them dance and play dholkis in their houses and/or slut-sham his wife for being too “westernized.” But when he makes a bad move and keeps protecting the Taliban, they remain quiet, or even support him. How easy it was to come and gather around Imran Khan’s container every day and night, but so hard to gather around the CM’s house in Karachi demanding the Government to stop protecting the terrorists? It wasn’t hard, if the motivation was there.

It is a fact that our government is supporting terrorism. It is also a fact that Pakistanis as a nation passively supports terrorism. They are harboring terrorists in their mosques and in their jails. They are protecting the idea of killing other people on the basis of religion by calling its critics “Islamophobes,” and “infidels.” Neutrality isn’t a choice in this situation and neither is the fight to protect Islam. Elie Wiesel once said “we must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” Silence doesn’t help the victim, but the offender – the terrorists, in this case – because it is one less voice against them.

So when Muslims like Mehdi Hassan say that even though it wasn’t right to kill Charlie Hebdo’s cartoonists, yet the cartoonists shouldn’t have made cartoons that offended Muslims, they are actually putting the blame on the cartoonists and not the killers. Which side are they on: the cartoonists and their free speech, or those “Muslims” who avenged the insult to their Prophet by slaughtering unarmed men?

Well, we don’t know. Similarly, when we say that the Taliban’s terrorist attacks are in retaliation to the military operation in Waziristan, we are not doing the victims of Shikarpur or Peshawar any favour. We are condoning terrorism by not condemning it, and by not condemning the actors directly or indirectly responsible for this.

We are also helping the terrorists by not coming out and raising our voice against them, as well as the government that is protecting those terrorist organizations. France didn’t stand up behind any Jibran Nasir; Paksitan should consider itself lucky that it has people like him who have taken the most vicious of all in the world head on. He has done it and has shown that fighting consistently against terrorism leads to results and you don’t even have to break a single wind screen for that. It’s called “public power” – something that everyone possesses but only the most courageous, the most honorable ones utilize.

This problem is not only in Pakistan but in all nations.

First why all the Muslims are so protective about Islam ? They just want to kill them self to silence the critics . Why ? Because if there is no fear there won't be growing Islamic community. Say if people in Islamic world have there rights to question everything , Freedom to choose any religion , freedom of speech , freedom of choice . How many of you think the numbers of people converting to other religion ?

So I don't think it is so easy to solve. Pakistan was created on basis on religion . Which recognised itself with Middle East Arab world. The only connection they have is the belief they follow. No Arabs in the next million year will consider them as same people . It's very hard game to play for pakistan. It has to be be like this with these fanatics.

It has to be lenient towards extremism . Today PA can wage war on TTP but they can't touch Pakistan Taliban or JUD or LeT . It will increase the unstained internal situation.

So what is the solution ? Nothing ... Keep going . Stay relavent in the global stage by indulging in rhetoric with India like What north Korea or somalians doing with their pirates . or call it a day. Go for full offensive against all terror groups ... Once and for all. So atleast in few years The next generation of Pakistan will live in peace and have prosperous life or atleast live for his own life span. Than get killed by suicide bombers at some point of time. This uncertainty of long life or future is the problem . Which makes mind to go crazy for some good cash or enjoyment before getting killed by unknown terrorism

 

[acid rain]

“Those who plead their cause in the absence of an opponent can invent to their heart's content, can pontificate without taking into account the opposite point of view and keep the best arguments for themselves, for aggressors are always quick to attack those who have no means of defence.” (Christine de Pizan, Der Sendbrief vom Liebesgott/ The Letter of the God of Love)

Perhaps the author could've bothered to gauge the 'empathy' of the Pakistani Nation when after the Peshawar Massacre we were holding protest rallies all over Pakistan or even the feeling that emanated after the Shikarpur Bombings.

Perhaps the author could've bothered to read Michael Scheur to realize what proxy-wars are and who is or isn't and was or wasn't playing this game in the region and the world at large before singularly focusing on Pakistan like a barnacle.

Perhaps the author could've realized that we don't live in a bipolar world where everything is in black and white hence the confusion that emanates from it amongst the masses.

But all of those 'perhaps' would require some intellectual honesty to begin with and that doesn't really make for a great article if all the arguments revolve around 'rhetoric' and nothing more.

Sound argument.

You are right, there is a greater game in play and pakistan is in the middle of it, you are also right that all things aren't exactly black and white.

The author is asking for too much - giving up on selective empathy, giving up on the most potent of weapons that keeps the "wolves" at bay and provides some degree of parity and heart burn to the enemies.

What he is alluding to is the atmosphere that's been created that is harming oneself rather than the intended target...though major degree of success is visible in the mullah quest for sunni dominance as far as local asset utilisation goes.

 

[Armstrong]

Sound argument.

Your are right, there is a game in progress, you are also right that everything isn't black and white. Pakistan is in the centre of the game and pakistan needs to play the game

The author is asking for too much - giving up on selective empathy, giving up on the most potent of weapons that keeps the "wolves" at bay and provides some degree of parity and heart burn to the enemies.

What he is alluding to is the atmosphere that's been created.

I don't do sarcasm very well; so if you've got a question say it out plain and simple.

 

[acid rain]

I don't do sarcasm very well; so if you've got a question say it out plain and simple.

To put it plainly, I looked at it from your perspective...and I agree that pakistan has its right to play the game as it sees fit.

For e.g.US loses billions and thousands of soldiers in its wars...and they do it for the game even when they do not require todo it.

India has lost troops in Bangladesh and SrI lanka for in direct goals.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

@Armstrong - Bro can you sum this discussion up for me? What is this about?

 

[OrionHunter]

Three reasons why terrorism will never be eradicated in Pakistan:

1. Terrorists especially those being used against India and Afghanistan are the Establishment's 'strategic assets' raised, nurtured and armed to fight PA's war against India by proxy. Does anyone in his right mind think that the PA will discard this policy which is written in stone after spending millions of rupees on them since the past three decades?? The PA needs to keep up tensions with India or it will lose its exalted place in Pakistan society. If there's peace with India, what then of the Pakistan Army? Losing pelf and power would be the last thing on their minds.

2. Neither the security forces nor the political leadership have the will or the guts to take on these terrorists for fear of a violent backlash in Pakistan that would be worse than the present situation. So they hide behind a convenient facade that there is no evidence of wrong doing on their part. Examples: Hafiz Saeed and Don Dawood. They're portrayed as being clean as a whistle!

3. Pakistan will not touch any terrorist organization as long as it does not hurt its interests, seemingly unaware of the fact that there are turncoats aplenty. The 'good' terrorists frequently join the ranks of the 'bad' terrorists to create mayhem within Pakistan itself, like the TTP.

 

[WAR-rior]

What the hell are you talking about ? If you can't understand my posts...why waste my time by replying to them ?

fuget all that. Seems u havent understood my post. IN ur post u r somewhere or the other defending ur inner cancer in behest of outside conspiracy. It doesnt matter how much outsiders conspire against u, u will be immune if u r clean from inside. Why dont I see u support internal cleanliness before coming to proxies and all.

 

[Armstrong]

fuget all that. Seems u havent understood my post. IN ur post u r somewhere or the other defending ur inner cancer in behest of outside conspiracy. It doesnt matter how much outsiders conspire against u, u will be immune if u r clean from inside. Why dont I see u support internal cleanliness before coming to proxies and all.

You've got to be kidding me; is that what you extracted from my post ?

Read my post again; then read posts that I've made about the topic ever since I joined the form before doing a analysis of what I do or do not mean !

@Armstrong - Bro can you sum this discussion up for me? What is this about?

No need; your already rosy view about Pakistan ain't gonna change and the author's summations are pretty much in line with your own !

 

[SarthakGanguly]

No need; your already rosy view about Pakistan ain't gonna change and the author's summations are pretty much in line with your own !

Okies. Danke...

 

[WAR-rior]

You've got to be kidding me; is that what you extracted from my post ?

Read my post again; then read posts that I've made about the topic ever since I joined the form before doing a analysis of what I do or do not mean !



No need; your already rosy view about Pakistan ain't gonna change and the author's summations are pretty much in line with your own !

Dude, u can try but somewhere or the other u too are trying to show how genuine Pakistan has become after Peshawar attack. Iask u again in 1 line, has it really become? I wud say no coz still u have only shifted from GOOD TALIBAN BAD TALIBAN concept to GOOD TERROIST BAD TERRORIST. Those who attack u are terrorists for u but those who attack others r not. Why are u bringing out all 'PERHAPS' when u know there is internal rot in your country that needs to be sorted.

 

[WAJsal]

It is also a fact that Pakistanis as a nation passively supports terrorism.

What is this bullshit.My signature should be enough for the likes of you,this is just stupidity at its best.

 

[WAR-rior]

What is this bullshit.My signature should be enough for the likes of you,this is just stupidity at its best.

So u justify that since we are doing something wrong then u got the right to do the same? OK ....JUSTIFIED.

But question arises, We can afford it, can u?