Pakistan 5th gen?

[prototype]

You don´t worth any decent reply. You have been banned due to repeated foul language days ago, if i remember correctly. How much you paid the mods to be back on again without a scratch?

and i also saw many of ur post deleted due to use of foul language,i am thinking how much u paid to escape the ban

 

[mikkix]

no actually not....if u know the american business mindset well

every tech developed by americans r only reserved to themselves untill some other country develop it

f-35 will b on offer to india by 2018 when they realize pakfa is near completion only to ramp up their sales and stagnate either the development of the home nation or purchase from a rival nation

this is also possible with pakistan when chinese will b near to complete j-xx

for example f-16 sales pretty open to pakistan without any constraints when j17 is in the acquiring phase

Something considerably true....
I want to ask a question to you ,,,, why indians starts supporting americans nowthese days,,,,,,,i havent seen any indians to support america before 911.....
What happened to you all....I always heard of indians saying pakistanis is a fan a of americans. but now what....

 

[Frankenstein]

Pakistan will have it after a decade or before InshaAllah

 

[prototype]

Something considerably true....
I want to ask a question to you ,,,, why indians starts supporting americans nowthese days,,,,,,,i havent seen any indians to support america before 911.....
What happened to you all....I always heard of indians saying pakistanis is a fan a of americans. but now what....

yes we r seeing a lot of coperation now a days after 9/11,and if u remeber it was americans who started the cooperation by removing the trade constraints it had put after pokhran,i think only to capitalize the booming indian ecnomy

but again u.s is still not among india's top trade partners but ironically its is china which is on top of india's list

but when it comes to defence it gets a whole different meaning

u.s replaced france at 3rd position in defence trade with india and is competing with israel and russia for top slot

suddenly what is the reason for indian bending towards u.s is not known because defence is a field which is always shrouded in mysteries and kickbacks

the deals which were restricted for us some years ago is now completely open which includes their latest weapons,at a time when their is a news that india will be spending almost $60 billion on new defence deals,a perfect time for american defense industry

and why we r cooperating with americans...when we r getting some delicious cakes...why ignore it

 

[Speeder 2]

You have missed the whole point and written your whole post in anger. Please go read my post about the engineering process in the LCH thread and then come back. Reverse engineering is tough for sure but way way easier than developing something from scratch. Its basically innovating on an existing invention. Next time before you start calling name read the post and come back with a constructive argument. You still have backed up your statement about the J-xx and i think it will remain that way.

Make no mistake! Several posts of your here in the thread resort only to cheap wordings like `straight copying`and `lazy`, with sole purpose to flam.

What you just said is dead wrong again!

There is a huge difference btw to invent and to innovate.

Strictly speaking, what all countries do right now, including USA, in the field of fighter jets are still innovating, not inventing as you sinuated. All are based on the original concept of what is a air plane - a jet engine in the rear, front cockpit, 2 wings and a tail, but only constantly innovating the materials, shapes combi layouts, power of jet engines, distance/accuracy of radar and weapnaries, etc. of the White Bros´ idea. Almost the same are of most other fields other than jets.

It takes, however, a long time, some hundreds of years mostly or even more, to really INVENT something new! e.g. China invent paper 1000s years ago. And it´still univerally in use today as we don´t write on some magic invisible materials with infinite capacity.

Therefore, what China reverse-engineers(with some imporvements/some innovations on top as usual), either some jet engine, plane concept, etc., are fundamentally no different from what USA is doing on F-22A for instance, which is also innovating, not inventing. Now if USA comes up with an disk alike fighter jet with kind of anti-gravity engine (not standard jet engine), being able to `stand`still at wish in the mid air, being completely stealth to human eyes at any distance, doing UFO manuevers, etc, now that would be called a sort of invention.

Threfore, if you call What China is doing is `copying`, so must be called to USA theoritically speaking as it´s `copying` its previous designs mainly --- 2 wings , 1 tail plus 1 jet engine, nothing difficult really.


To reverse engineer is to reinvent[/B]. Do you even feel the weight of that word?

There is no qualitative quantum leap type of difference at all, between to successfully reverse engineer an advaned layout from scratch, alone, and to design a new layout from scratch (as you wrote) if the new design is not an invention but just a more advanced and more innovative version of the old ones. It is because both processes would centainly contain innovation elements and most likely with new patents for each as well.

Since all advanced CHinese projects are highly classified on all details unlike India, there is no need and means to `prove` anything on JXX to you, as no American will `prove` to you anything on what materials of F-22 is made of.

 

[mikkix]

yes we r seeing a lot of coperation now a days after 9/11,and if u remeber it was americans who started the cooperation by removing the trade constraints it had put after pokhran,i think only to capitalize the booming indian ecnomy

but again u.s is still not among india's top trade partners but ironically its is china which is on top of india's list

but when it comes to defence it gets a whole different meaning

u.s replaced france at 3rd position in defence trade with india and is competing with israel and russia for top slot

suddenly what is the reason for indian bending towards u.s is not known because defence is a field which is always shrouded in mysteries and kickbacks

the deals which were restricted for us some years ago is now completely open which includes their latest weapons,at a time when their is a news that india will be spending almost $60 billion on new defence deals,a perfect time for american defense industry

and why we r cooperating with americans...when we r getting some delicious cakes...why ignore it

so the coperation based on how to support america in south asia and how to create problems for pakistan in afghanistan???
We in pakistan believed that india and america come closer to kick china and pakistan........if yes then india is making a big mistake,,,this will definitely cost them in long run....
America will get out its *** soon for say in 2012...
Then india has to changed its policy towards asia and america,,,,,recently they dumbed iran as india had a very good relations with them yes they have some relation now with them but not same as they had.....Iran is the main source of energy in this region and india is losing it by supporting america in UN...India is against iran nukes program.....
I believed india is now sitting on a wrong train which goes to nowhere but only ......

 

[Bhim]

so the coperation based on how to support america in south asia and how to create problems for pakistan in afghanistan???

We in pakistan believed that india and america come closer to kick china and pakistan..
......if yes then india is making a big mistake,,,this will definitely cost them in long run....
America will get out its *** soon for say in 2012...
Then india has to changed its policy towards asia and america,,,,,recently they dumbed iran as india had a very good relations with them yes they have some relation now with them but not same as they had.....Iran is the main source of energy in this region and india is losing it by supporting america in UN...India is against iran nukes program.....
I believed india is now sitting on a wrong train which goes to nowhere but only ......

The same questions all over again.
1)How is India creating problems for Pakistan in Afghanistan?
2)Well how you see India America relations doesn't mean they are facts.Isn't Pakistan cooperating with America, and isn't it Americas biggest ally? So why should America kick Pakistan on India's behest?
(As for China let the Chinese speak, you should be more concerned of your country, don't always club the two)
3)No one is sure when United forces would leave Afghanistan.2011 is just a target.

 

[SomeGuy]

There is no such thing has a chinease Fifth Generation fighter. AS YET.

China cant even develople an engine and people are talking about 5th generation fighters.

Check your facts.
China can and has developed engines and are currently undergoing testing and certification.

A FEAT that not even Europeans have attempted as yet.

Why would they when they can get JSF from america?
Several European countries have financed development of JSF.

CHINA ITSELF STIL IMPORTS $ BILLIONS of arms from Russia.

Again, check your facts.
Other than perhaps engines (until the indigenous engines are certified), China hardly imports any major arms deals from Russia anymore.

"IT WILL BE SOME TIME PREHAPS 2015 + before we even see a prototype of a real chinease FIFTH GEN FIGHTER.

As for China inducting this prehaps 2022 and exporting this 2025 minimum.

Russia is 2nd only to USA in aviation research well ahead of Europe who is 3rd.

China is 4th well behind.

Ask yourself this, if China is so far behind Russia, then why do chinese refuse offers for advanced Russian equipment?
Could it be that the Russians aren't far out of sight ahead to make purchases economical or worthwhile?

Also, what is the main difference between an advanced 4.5++ generation aircraft (which China already has with J-10B and J-11B) and a 5th generation?

Stealth is the main difference, but that shouldn't be too big an obstacle since the physics were formulated in the 1960's and they can also learn lessons from observing the stealth shaping of F-117, B2, F-22 and JSF.

Things like high situational awareness and highly integrated avionics are certainly within China's technological reach given their domestic semiconductor industry.

China's first fighter AESA radar should be fitted & tested on J-10B.

Composites and RAM coating are already in use in current chinese planes.

Engines, TVC and supercruise are in the advance development stages and should be ready for 2018.



So what other 5th gen technologies are there that are beyond China's capability? Please let me know.

 

[ace slasher]

guys thanks for all the replies
but you missed my other question?

the shortest time taken to develop and implement a complete fighter jet?

 

[SomeGuy]

guys thanks for all the replies
but you missed my other question?

the shortest time taken to develop and implement a complete fighter jet?

Depends on a lot of factors such as previous experience, the level of tech, money etc.

I would hazard a guess of around 10 years or more (for modern fighters) from initial specification to prototype flight.

But some fighters have taken less time than this, for example in the case of F-16, request for proposals was issued in 1972, and the first flight was in 1974

In the case of JF-17, Pakistan and China signed the memorandum of understanding for joint development in 1995 and the first flight was in 2003.

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

i don't know y people show so much interests on baseless threads.?
these things are discussed lot more times and threads were closed after having too many non sense posts.
same as this one.

 

[mikkix]

The same questions all over again.
1)How is India creating problems for Pakistan in Afghanistan?
2)Well how you see India America relations doesn't mean they are facts.Isn't Pakistan cooperating with America, and isn't it Americas biggest ally? So why should America kick Pakistan on India's behest?
(As for China let the Chinese speak, you should be more concerned of your country, don't always club the two)
3)No one is sure when United forces would leave Afghanistan.2011 is just a target.

india has 10s of counselates in afghanistan,,,,,they provide money to some organizations which create problems for pakistan....they are supporting terrorist activities in pakistan...

Americans are the allies but its a temporary alliance with them,,,, cause we and america have a 360 degree difference of opinion...
We allies america because we need weapons and we all know that america have the latest technological weapons,,,Only russia can compete with them and we are trying to develop that relation with russia but it takes some time.,,,

Un and US forces will leave afghanistan in 2012 onwards cause afghanistan is not the place that anyone can survives,,, thay will faced a humiliating defeat in there...

We all will see and then the downfall will start..
India should change its policy before america leaves otherwise afghanistan will be a hell for them,,and it will not stop the virus may follow india too,,,,So india should made good relations with pakistan and pakistan should also....

 

[hal-fgfa]

india has 10s of counselates in afghanistan,,,,,they provide money to some organizations which create problems for pakistan....they are supporting terrorist activities in pakistan...

:

u have any proof against india that india fund any one those creat problem in pakistan ??

but afgan president state that ISI fund taliban who attack on indians
if u need source so i can proved u ??

 

[prototype]

india has 10s of counselates in afghanistan,,,,,they provide money to some organizations which create problems for pakistan....they are supporting terrorist activities in pakistan...

Americans are the allies but its a temporary alliance with them,,,, cause we and america have a 360 degree difference of opinion...
We allies america because we need weapons and we all know that america have the latest technological weapons,,,Only russia can compete with them and we are trying to develop that relation with russia but it takes some time.,,,

Un and US forces will leave afghanistan in 2012 onwards cause afghanistan is not the place that anyone can survives,,, thay will faced a humiliating defeat in there...

We all will see and then the downfall will start..
India should change its policy before america leaves otherwise afghanistan will be a hell for them,,and it will not stop the virus may follow india too,,,,So india should made good relations with pakistan and pakistan should also....

and u reached at a conclusion that india have 10 consulates and the allegation that india is trying to create tension through it

ur nation is still unable to present a single evidence of it

and by the the way is not afgan u.s backyard

 

[mikkix]

u have any proof against india that india fund any one those creat problem in pakistan ??

but afgan president state that ISI fund taliban who attack on indians
if u need source so i can proved u ??

I have the statement of Our foreign and interior minister,,,,We have the proofs but the thing is that most of the activities that pakistan faced by terrorists is backed by india but whenever we go to the roots we also discovered that those activities is also backed by americans too so we shut our mouth cause of US unfortunately because in return america gives us weapons and money to compensate what they did.....We have the proofs but it is not sufficient in the international court cause the attacks was carried by locals so in the end we suffer...