"Pakistan - 5,000 years old" PMIK in China

[Indus Pakistan]

We cannot ignore this. Thanks @Indus Pakistan for the image.

Many thanks for appreciating my effort. They say a picture [image] is worth a thousand words. As you can see Pakistan is wrapped around the Indus better then a perfect fitting glove hugs your hand. Conversly you can see Indian Republic is dominated by Ganga basin [within which 60% or 700 millions Indian call home with the the V shaped Deccan peninsula being home to rest of Indians.

Indus and Ganga basins are separated by the Thar Desert in the centre and dry salt flats of Rann Kutch in the south. Only in the extreme north [Punjab] is there is link up. In this sense Pakistan is more distinct then most countries from their neighbours. Take USA/Canada, or Spain/Portugal, Germany/Poland etc

Another map that helps to give a abstraction of the Indus compared to Ganga. Within the Ganga basin over 700 millions Indians live and is the core region of Indian nation.

 

[Numerous]

Exactly, that is the crux of whole argument. You have summed it up very well. People are not realising the fact that enemy is not just attacking us on the border, he is also busy on ideological fronts. Some members here are creating and promoting a false and malicious ideological narrative. They want to create an alternate ideological construct of this nation entirely based on race and myths. OP is a known racist and yet some people are buying his filth because they dont want to criticise wrongdoings of their ancestors.

I read a post somewhere recently that a western think thank (it may have been RAND) promotes pre-Islamic civilisations in Muslim country as a strategy. So I think you are absolutely right about this being a method of ideological warfare. Instead of westerners trying to challenge Islam openly, they have instead opted for other methods whereby Muslims themselves will become attached to things other than Islam and this will lead to the abandoned of Islam slowly step by step in our societies. Our Pakistan is quite strong though but if some Pakistanis on here can fall for the trap and these are smart individuals then it means the rest of society is at risk too.

I agree Indus Pakistan is a racist aswell as a classist, he is literally is some dodgy pakistani businessman type in the UK who has a knack for running into trouble with the government. He kept taking digs about what he perceives is my low class place in society in the UK so I ran a check on him the other day and found some interesting stuff. The only reason he has become a source of influence on here is because he is fluent with words. He has literally been called a dishonest person by government officials in the UK. There are many red flags about this man. I could go into more detail about what I found about him but I'll leave it at that. There could be a chance I'm wrong but I'm fairly certain I tracked the right man when I looked him up.

We have few members here who openly reject, malign and throw insults on Islamic values and traditions. I have never heard these things in my real life or in public, but this trend can grow in our society.

They will get their comeuppance one day, if not in this life then the next. The mods are fairly good at shutting them down if you report the posts though.

We have our own examples in Pakistan, but dont know why people dont learn from these mistakes. When you start traveling on the path of racial nationalism, then there is no end to it. It simply means destruction, division and balkanization.

People are drip fed it in school in small amounts, therefore it's harder to challenge as it becomes ingrained in many people's minds. I agree it will result in more humiliation and destruction in the long term though.

As far as I am able to comprehend their narrative, the timeline of the glorious Indus Valley Civilization ends at the advent of Islam. I dont have any thing against the original inhabitants of this region, but this false sense of belonging needs to be shattered.

Realistically, if our ancestors were alive today, we would probably not get on well with them. I do not have any burning hatred for them, I am just indifferent, they lived their lives but their lives, their religion, their culture etc... were probably very different to our way of life. Therefore we should not model ourselves on them.

We can only present truth in front of them with reason and logic. Hidyah is ultimately in the hand of God.

Yep thats true. May Allah make your words more appealable to the people.

 

[H. Dawary]

I read a post somewhere recently that a western think thank (it may have been RAND) promotes pre-Islamic civilisations in Muslim country as a strategy. So I think you are absolutely right about this being a method of ideological warfare. Instead of westerners trying to challenge Islam openly, they have instead opted for other methods whereby Muslims themselves will become attached to things other than Islam and this will lead to the abandoned of Islam slowly step by step in our societies. Our Pakistan is quite strong though but if some Pakistanis on here can fall for the trap and these are smart individuals then it means the rest of society is at risk too.

I agree Indus Pakistan is a racist aswell as a classist, he is literally is some dodgy pakistani businessman type in the UK who has a knack for running into trouble with the government. He kept taking digs about what he perceives is my low class place in society in the UK so I ran a check on him the other day and found some interesting stuff. The only reason he has become a source of influence on here is because he is fluent with words. He has literally been called a dishonest person by government officials in the UK. There are many red flags about this man. I could go into more detail about what I found about him but I'll leave it at that. There could be a chance I'm wrong but I'm fairly certain I tracked the right man when I looked him up.



They will get their comeuppance one day, if not in this life then the next. The mods are fairly good at shutting them down if you report the posts though.



People are drip fed it in school in small amounts, therefore it's harder to challenge as it becomes ingrained in many people's minds. I agree it will result in more humiliation and destruction in the long term though.



Realistically, if our ancestors were alive today, we would probably not get on well with them. I do not have any burning hatred for them, I am just indifferent, they lived their lives but their lives, their religion, their culture etc... were probably very different to our way of life. Therefore we should not model ourselves on them.




Yep thats true. May Allah make your words more appealable to the people.

You brothers are on the path of truth, and may Allah give you further Hidayah.

What people here don't realize is that Nationalism at its core is no different from Fascist or Nazi shaytanic ideology. It only serves some people. This was the main reason the Prophet was sent, to eradicate such nasty mindsets.

I mean say one Muslim nation were to reach it's height of power under Nationalism, then what about other Muslim brothers from other nations, are they to be considered or treated as less, imagine if the kingdom of Saud were to govern our lands, are Arabs to be given special privileges over non-Arabs, or if Pakistan were to govern the entirety of Muslim lands, are the people from today's Pakistan supposed to be given special privledges over other Muslims because they didn't have the privilege of being born Arab or Pakistani? What Muslim would want to live in this tyrannical system? Astaghfirullah Astaghfrilluah, this is no better than the caste system of India and the present RSS under Modi.

Allah has created each and every one of us uniquely, some intelligent, some clever, some brave etc. He did not create us so that we may oppress one another.

And yet time and time again many of us forget history, consider the period of the Sahabas under the Prophet, under Abu Bakr, under Umar, Uthman and Ali, would you rather live in those periods or in the period of Hitler and Mussolini under their gestapos, considering others inferior to you?

We as Muslims must ask ourselves, whether we want, Globalism? Nationalism? Communism? or Islam?

 

[Numerous]

You brothers are on the path of truth, and may Allah give you further Hidayah.

What people here don't realize is that Nationalism at its core is no different from Fascist or Nazi shaytanic ideology. It only serves some people. This was the main reason the Prophet was sent, to eradicate such nasty mindsets.

I mean say one Muslim nation were to reach it's height of power under Nationalism, then what about other Muslim brothers from other nations, are they to be considered or treated as less, imagine if the kingdom of Saud were to govern our lands, are Arabs to be given special privileges over non-Arabs, or if Pakistan were to govern the entirety of Muslim lands, are the people from today's Pakistan supposed to be given special privledges over other Muslims because they didn't have the privilege of being born Arab or Pakistani? What Muslim would want to live in this tyrannical system? Astaghfirullah Astaghfrilluah, this is no better than the caste system of India and the present RSS under Modi.

Allah has created each and every one of us uniquely, some intelligent, some clever, some brave etc. He did not create us so that we may oppress one another.

And yet time and time again many of us forget history, consider the period of the Sahabas under the Prophet, under Abu Bakr, under Umar, Uthman and Ali, would you rather live in those periods or in the period of Hitler and Mussolini under their gestapos, considering others inferior to you?

We as Muslims must ask ourselves, whether we want, Globalism? Nationalism? Communism? or Islam?

Ameen. I have a long way to go in terms of wisdom so your dua is appreciated, I don't even compare to Mutakalim. Bro I have to go sleep so I'll reply to you tomorrow insha'Allah.

 

[prashantazazel]

Mr. Khan is trying to impress the progressive and irreligious folk with this. After all, those are the people with true power and wealth in the current world.
If he ever says this in Pakistan, it would probably suggest that the liberal elite are indeed becoming powerful there.

 

[Mutakalim]

Abu Hurairah RA:

My close friend, the truthful one, the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) told me: “Among this ummah there will be an expedition to Sindh and Al Hind.” If I live to see it and am martyred, all well and good, and if I – and he said some word – return, I am Abu Hurayrah the freed, I will be ransomed from the Fire.

Narrated by an-Nasaa’i in as-Sunan (no. 3173) and by Ahmad in al-Musnad (14/419)

Thank you.

 

[Baby Leone]

excellent by PMIK.

 

[Kabira]

Agreed. However, we need to face and confront the home grown challenge and "Fitnah" of extreme ethnic nationalism and secularism. These two ideologies have created enough traitors in our ranks that we cannot close our eyes. From Altaf Hussain to Hussain Haqqani, from Sindhi nationalist to likes of PTM and ANP and from Sheikh Abdullah to Abul Ghaffar Khan. All of these traitors were product of secularist thought. All of them used to believe in ethnic nationalism. They also wanted to create an identity for themselves on the basis of race, colour and cast.



I dont have any trouble in accepting the fact that we are an amalgamation of different ethnic nationalities. Our state was not created on the basis of a distinct ethnic makeup. We are existing as a nation because we rejected this stupid narrative that nations are formed on the basis of ethnicity. I have to quote Iqbal here, as he rejected this narrative in a very bold and direct manner:

Iss Dour Mein Mai Aur Hai, Jaam Aur Hai Jam Aur
Saqi Ne Bina Ki Rawish-e-Lutf-o-Sitam Aur

In this age the wine, the cup, even Jam is different
The cup‐bearer started different ways of grace and tyranny

Muslim Ne Bhi Tameer Kiya Apna Haram Aur
Tehzeeb Ke Azar Ne Tarshawaye Sanam Aur

The Muslim also constructed a different harem of his own
The Azar of civilization made different idols of his own

In Taza Khudaon Mein Bara Sub Se Watan Hai
Jo Pairhan Iss Ka Hai, Woh Mazhab Ka Kafan Hai

Country, is the biggest among these new gods!
What is its shirt is the shroud of Deen (Religion)

Ye But Ke Tarashida-e-Tehzeeb-e-Nawi Hai
Gharatgar-e-Kashana-e-Deen-e-Nabwi Hai

This idol which is the product of the new civilization
Is the plunderer of the structure of the Holy Prophet’s Deen (Religion)

Bazu Tera Touheed Ki Quwwat Se Qawi Hai
Islam Tera Dais Hai, Tu Mustafavi Hai

Your arm is enforced with the strength of the Divine Unity
You are the followers of Mustafa, your country is Islam

Nazzara-e-Dairina Zamane Ko Dikha De
Ae Mustafavi Khak Mein Iss Butt Ko Mila De!

You should show the old panorama to the world
O Mustafaa’s follower! You should destroy this idol

Hai Tark-e-Watan Sunnat-e-Mehboob (S.A.W.)-e-Elahi
De Tu Bhi Nabuwwat Ki Sadaqat Pe Gawahi

Renouncing the country is the way of the God’s Beloved (PBUH)
You should also testify to the Prophethood’s Truth by similar action

Aqwam Mein Makhlooq-e-Khuda Batti Hai Iss Se
Qoumiat-e-Islam Ki Jar Katti Hai Iss Se

God’s creation is unjustly divided among nations by it
The Islamic concept of nationality is uprooted by it

In another of his masterpiece he attacked tenaciously on one of the most influential and respected scholar of his time Maulana Hussain Ahmad Madni. The same Madni who then adopted Hindustan over Pakistan by accepting ethnicity as the basis of nationality. Can I ask the Question: what is the difference between Hussain Ahmad Madni and a Pakistani who is trying to make ethnic makeup as the basis of nationality?

The East still does not know the mysteries of this Religion, otherwise
From Deoband, Hussain Ahmad! What a most strange person he is-
Crying from the pulpit that the (Muslim) community is from the nation!
Unaware as he is of the rank of Muhammad sallallahu `alayhi wa sallam the Arabian
Reach, Mustafa, the Chosen One, for in this Religion 'everything is he'
If you do not reach him, everything is like Abu Lahab (i.e. satanic, evil)

The point needs to be heavily understood that we are not a nation because we have some distinct ethnic makeup, or we all belong to a same race or tribe. Our forefathers came from all across the world, from Arabia to Central Asia, from east India to Persia and from Afghanistan to Anatolia. As you yourself mentioned that our culture has more resemblance to turkey then any other neighbouring country. Moreover, the original settlers of Indus plain are few among us. Majority of our forefathers came from different regions of the world. Therefore, how can a Moghul be able to recover his history from Indus Plain, how can a tribe which originally came from Persia be able to recover his history from Indus plain? How can a Muhajir from Gangatic plain or UP be able to recover his history from Indus plain? Why our Mohajir brothers left their ancestral homes and joined us? For what cause, for what purpose? In essence, we are a nation of different ethnic makeups, races, tribes, colours and languages.

Our identity is not linked with geography, culture, race or ethnicity. Our identity as a nation is only linked with Islam. Whether we like it or not, whether we accept it or not, but the truth is that we are linked with each other only due to Islam. We are a nation because we all believe in the same ideology. We are a nation because we all bare witness that there is none worthy of worship except Allah. We are a nation because we all bare witness that Muhammad (Peace be Upon Him and Upon all His followers) is the last messenger.

Please dont try to create false identities. These false identities of race, ethnicity and tribes have given us nothing. These false identities were behind the creation of movements like Sindhu Desh, Mohajir or Pukhton Tahafuz. Give up your false identity of race and come to the real identity of Islam. That is the essence of Pan Islamism.


I am sending thousand curses on your ethnic nationalism. And as far as death of religion goes:

It is He who sent His Messenger with guidance and the religion of truth to manifest it over all religion. And sufficient is Allah as Witness. Quran 48:28

No Muslim can accept that Islam is dead. Sell this choran to infidels.

Why you are ignoring Rehmat Ali idea of Pakistan? He played more important role then not so clear dreams of Iqbal.

 

[Agito]

I mean say one Muslim nation were to reach it's height of power under Nationalism, then what about other Muslim brothers from other nations, are they to be considered or treated as less, ...

This is exactly how nations ruled each other using Islam. Islam was always used as a cover for nationalist takeovers. For a people to rule another people, just use Islam as an excuse. I've heard non-turks who worship turks and are convinced that the turkish race is the only one fit to "lead" Islam. Their wet dream is to be ruled by turks. They're completely ignorant of the brutality of Ottoman rule. The Umyyads were arab chauvanists and so were the abbasids. And those are just those three. Imagine the others. Religion is a cover for nationalism, but it's an even worse one.

By the way, Islam isn't the only one. All the other major religions were used in the same way which is why the modern world has moved away from theocracies and into nation states. Claiming that nationalism killed people while ignoring religious wars is hypocritical, but at least nationalism is easier dealt with. Also, if you hear muslims talk, they'll all flaunt their "iman" and how special their people are to Islam or Islamic history. In other words, nationalism wrapped in religion. In fact, this forum has plenty of threads about how "special" Pakistanis are to Islam, and plenty of insults to other Muslim nationalities who are deemed inferior.

Do you genuinely think that people can ever erase their tribal tendencies? never. they just hide it to achieve a goal. Religion is an excellent cover.

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

This is exactly how nations ruled each other using Islam. Islam was always used as a cover for nationalist takeovers. For a people to rule another people, just use Islam as an excuse. I've heard non-turks who worship turks and are convinced that the turkish race is the only one fit to "lead" Islam. Their wet dream is to be ruled by turks. They're completely ignorant of the brutality of Ottoman rule. The Umyyads were arab chauvanists and so were the abbasids. And those are just those three. Imagine the others. Religion is a cover for nationalism, but it's an even worse one.

By the way, Islam isn't the only one. All the other major religions were used in the same way which is why the modern world has moved away from theocracies and into nation states. Claiming that nationalism killed people while ignoring religious wars is hypocritical, but at least nationalism is easier dealt with. Also, if you hear muslims talk, they'll all flaunt their "iman" and how special their people are to Islam or Islamic history. In other words, nationalism wrapped in religion. In fact, this forum has plenty of threads about how "special" Pakistanis are to Islam, and plenty of insults to other Muslim nationalities who are deemed inferior.

Do you genuinely think that people can ever erase their tribal tendencies? never. they just hide it to achieve a goal. Religion is an excellent cover.

All that said answer why you only have 64 comments, when you joined in 2009.

 

[Mutakalim]

Why you are ignoring Rehmat Ali idea of Pakistan? He played more important role then not so clear dreams of Iqbal.

Rehmat Ali's idea also doesn't goes in the favour of secularist. You can quote him to counter the above mentioned argument. Can you mention the things which are crystal clear to your mind? For me arguments of Iqbal are more enlightening than mid day's sun.

 

[hussain0216]

This is exactly how nations ruled each other using Islam. Islam was always used as a cover for nationalist takeovers. For a people to rule another people, just use Islam as an excuse. I've heard non-turks who worship turks and are convinced that the turkish race is the only one fit to "lead" Islam. Their wet dream is to be ruled by turks. They're completely ignorant of the brutality of Ottoman rule. The Umyyads were arab chauvanists and so were the abbasids. And those are just those three. Imagine the others. Religion is a cover for nationalism, but it's an even worse one.

By the way, Islam isn't the only one. All the other major religions were used in the same way which is why the modern world has moved away from theocracies and into nation states. Claiming that nationalism killed people while ignoring religious wars is hypocritical, but at least nationalism is easier dealt with. Also, if you hear muslims talk, they'll all flaunt their "iman" and how special their people are to Islam or Islamic history. In other words, nationalism wrapped in religion. In fact, this forum has plenty of threads about how "special" Pakistanis are to Islam, and plenty of insults to other Muslim nationalities who are deemed inferior.

Do you genuinely think that people can ever erase their tribal tendencies? never. they just hide it to achieve a goal. Religion is an excellent cover.

Maybe this is why Islam is against nationalism

 

[Numerous]

You brothers are on the path of truth, and may Allah give you further Hidayah.

What people here don't realize is that Nationalism at its core is no different from Fascist or Nazi shaytanic ideology. It only serves some people. This was the main reason the Prophet was sent, to eradicate such nasty mindsets.

I mean say one Muslim nation were to reach it's height of power under Nationalism, then what about other Muslim brothers from other nations, are they to be considered or treated as less, imagine if the kingdom of Saud were to govern our lands, are Arabs to be given special privileges over non-Arabs, or if Pakistan were to govern the entirety of Muslim lands, are the people from today's Pakistan supposed to be given special privledges over other Muslims because they didn't have the privilege of being born Arab or Pakistani? What Muslim would want to live in this tyrannical system? Astaghfirullah Astaghfrilluah, this is no better than the caste system of India and the present RSS under Modi.

Allah has created each and every one of us uniquely, some intelligent, some clever, some brave etc. He did not create us so that we may oppress one another.

And yet time and time again many of us forget history, consider the period of the Sahabas under the Prophet, under Abu Bakr, under Umar, Uthman and Ali, would you rather live in those periods or in the period of Hitler and Mussolini under their gestapos, considering others inferior to you?

We as Muslims must ask ourselves, whether we want, Globalism? Nationalism? Communism? or Islam?

I came back to reply to your post but now I have fully read it, there is really much to reply as I agree with what you are saying and I don't have much else to add.

In time these isms will die out, communism for example is mostly gone from the world & from Muslim lands. No good will come out of hardcore nationalism either in the long term. We Muslims try to look for other ways to live but we just get humiliated more and more because we leave the perfect path that Allah (swt) has set for us.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

You brothers are on the path of truth, and may Allah give you further Hidayah.

What people here don't realize is that Nationalism at its core is no different from Fascist or Nazi shaytanic ideology. It only serves some people. This was the main reason the Prophet was sent, to eradicate such nasty mindsets.

I mean say one Muslim nation were to reach it's height of power under Nationalism, then what about other Muslim brothers from other nations, are they to be considered or treated as less, imagine if the kingdom of Saud were to govern our lands, are Arabs to be given special privileges over non-Arabs, or if Pakistan were to govern the entirety of Muslim lands, are the people from today's Pakistan supposed to be given special privledges over other Muslims because they didn't have the privilege of being born Arab or Pakistani? What Muslim would want to live in this tyrannical system? Astaghfirullah Astaghfrilluah, this is no better than the caste system of India and the present RSS under Modi.

Allah has created each and every one of us uniquely, some intelligent, some clever, some brave etc. He did not create us so that we may oppress one another.

And yet time and time again many of us forget history, consider the period of the Sahabas under the Prophet, under Abu Bakr, under Umar, Uthman and Ali, would you rather live in those periods or in the period of Hitler and Mussolini under their gestapos, considering others inferior to you?

We as Muslims must ask ourselves, whether we want, Globalism? Nationalism? Communism? or Islam?

Our raison d'être is Islam and only Islam. When we die, there will be no difference between human beings, except in relation to faith.

That, however, does not mean that any other identity is useless or not significant.

We, Afghans and Pakistanis, share an Islamic history together under great rulers and pious scholars, whom we rightly praise.

It was not an easy task to bring Islam to our region, it required a dynamic shift of mindset and the ability to face all odds (including defeat) with patience and perseverance.

Muslims have always been organized into smaller cultural units, even under Khilafat and Empires.

Quran makes in clear that our ethnic, cultural differences don’t bring any superiority over other human beings, and only those who are loyal to Islam and other Muslims are superior.

Pakistanis never aspired to be superior to anyone, and actually we promote brotherhood of Muslims in any way we can, hence Imran Khan’s visits to Iran and KSA this week, along with our vocal support for Turkey’s operation against PKK.

This is exactly how nations ruled each other using Islam. Islam was always used as a cover for nationalist takeovers. For a people to rule another people, just use Islam as an excuse. I've heard non-turks who worship turks and are convinced that the turkish race is the only one fit to "lead" Islam. Their wet dream is to be ruled by turks. They're completely ignorant of the brutality of Ottoman rule. The Umyyads were arab chauvanists and so were the abbasids. And those are just those three. Imagine the others. Religion is a cover for nationalism, but it's an even worse one.

By the way, Islam isn't the only one. All the other major religions were used in the same way which is why the modern world has moved away from theocracies and into nation states. Claiming that nationalism killed people while ignoring religious wars is hypocritical, but at least nationalism is easier dealt with. Also, if you hear muslims talk, they'll all flaunt their "iman" and how special their people are to Islam or Islamic history. In other words, nationalism wrapped in religion. In fact, this forum has plenty of threads about how "special" Pakistanis are to Islam, and plenty of insults to other Muslim nationalities who are deemed inferior.

Do you genuinely think that people can ever erase their tribal tendencies? never. they just hide it to achieve a goal. Religion is an excellent cover.

Why are you hiding your flags?

It is obvious you are anti-Pakistan and anti-Muslim.

Are you Israeli?

Rehmat Ali's idea also doesn't goes in the favour of secularist. You can quote him to counter the above mentioned argument. Can you mention the things which are crystal clear to your mind? For me arguments of Iqbal are more enlightening than mid day's sun.

Allama Iqbal also supported the founding of Pakistan, and even once posited a unity in British India between Hindus and Muslims like Quaid e Azam (sub se acha hai Hindustan hamara.)

However just like Quaid e Azam, he realized that the differences were two vast and that we were two different nations (Two Nation Theory.)

Eventually that theory became more defined when BD was formed and left Pakistan, and further when Indian Muslims largely abandoned Kashmiris and openly spewed hatred for Pakistan all around the world.

Pakistan is one qawm, which is totally different from the Indian qawm and Bangladeshi qawm.

History has proven it.

Now Afghanistan is gravitating back towards Pakistan. This is the natural fate of our region. Equilibrium is being restored.

 

[Genghis khan1]

Indian is name after Indus (Pakistan). Someone needs to tell modi to rename his country bharat or gangaland.

I suggest since modi and Indian media is already getting panic attacks cuz of IK, Pakistan should take away their name and identity, Whole nation will be in identity conflict and they will lose their international image as India.