Pak willing to give up claim on Kashmir: Musharraf

[Bull]

Tuesday, December 5, 2006 (New Delhi):

In what is being seen as a possible major breakthrough on the Kashmir problem, Pakistan President General Pervez Musharraf, has for the first time said that Pakistan is prepared to give up its claim on Kashmir.

Speaking to NDTV's Prannoy Roy, General Musharraf explained that under the four-point solution to Kashmir, Pakistan will also give up its old demand for a plebiscite in Kashmir and will forget all the UN resolutions.

Dr Prannoy Roy: Finally in this solution, Pakistan is giving up its claim to Kashmir? You are letting them self govern and you have no claim on Kashmir in this picture.

General Musharraf: We are at the moment, both India and Pakistan, on the same position as we were since 1948.

But we both, I am saying, we both ought to be prepared to give up all that we have been saying. And this includes all this. If we reach an agreement where we are giving self-governance, yes indeed, that is it.

Dr Prannoy Roy: So you are prepared to give up your claim to Kashmir?

General Musharraf: We will have to, yes, if this solution comes up.

Demand for plebiscite

President Musharraf also makes it clear that if the four-point solution is agreed upon, Pakistan will give up on the UN resolutions and its long-standing demand for a plebiscite.

Pakistan giving up its claim on Kashmir would be a historic turnaround and is based on the four-point solution for Kashmir.

India has refused to re-draw the boundaries of Kashmir or give away any territory, while Pakistan refused to accept the Line of Control as the international border.

Under the 4-point solution, these two basic conditions are not changed.

The solution says:

Kashmir will have the same borders but people will be allowed to move freely back and forth in the region.
The region will have self-governance or autonomy, but not independence
Troops will be withdrawn from the region in a staggered manner
A joint supervision mechanism will be set up, with India, Pakistan and Kashmir represented.

Dr Prannoy Roy: One thing in your solution. I will just be very clear so that the people of India can know this clearly. You are being, in a way, extremely bold, because it means that you are giving up plebiscite and giving up the UN resolution?

General Musharraf: Again there is little bit of, one is giving up that clearly and I say, yes I am giving up. There is a provision in that, I am not giving up at all. But one is prepared to give up, in case India leaves its stated position also.

Dr Prannoy Roy: Right. If this formula is agreed to you, you will give that up, basically.

General Musharraf: Both sides, listen, I believe when you are negotiating and you go for peace, it means what? It means compromise. Otherwise you can't have and you can’t go for a solution of a problem.

What do you mean by compromise? Compromise can never take place if you don't step back. Compromise inherently means stepping back by both sides. So inherently, both sides have to give up their positions and step back. If one of us is not prepared to step back, we will not reach a solution.

Dr Prannoy Roy: If India does accepts this, you will step back and give up those demands.

General Musharraf: Yes, we will have to.

Independence for Kashmir

The Pakistani President also made it clear that once Pakistan gives up its claim to Kashmir, the four-point solution is not a negotiating step towards getting independence for Kashmir.

He added categorically that self-governance or autonomy is not the first step to Kashmir's independence.

Dr Prannoy Roy: When you talk about self governance of Kashmir, we won't not go into the details that we will leave the bureaucrats and…

General Musharraf: Yes, legal side legal...

Dr Prannoy Roy: Are you then saying, no independence for Kashmir?

General Musharraf: Yes, we are against independence.

Dr Prannoy Roy: You are against independence?

General Musharraf: Absolutely, and so is India.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/newsrf.php?newsid=7844

 

[Bull]

Well though this looks like a all good decision,it comes out with a whole lot of practical issues.

It will be badly meddled by from both sides.It will be a another lebonon in the making,where half the leaders would be pro-india and remaining pro-pakistani.

It would be a mess!!!

 

[sword9]

All this time the Pakistanis were made to believe that Kashmiris are fighting for "independence", now Musharraf is willing to give up claim on Kashmir?

Is he saying that all this talk of "independence" was territorial ambition in disguise?

 

[Spring Onion]

What a typical attempt by Indians
Sure u guys are damn good at twistign things for propoganda hmmmmm

now look at the text

Speaking to NDTV's Prannoy Roy, General Musharraf explained that under the four-point solution to Kashmir, Pakistan will also give up its old demand for a plebiscite in Kashmir and will forget all the UN resolutions.

and that four points were self-governence on both sides for Kashmiris right to which India is not willing to agree

Dr Prannoy Roy: Finally in this solution, Pakistan is giving up its claim to Kashmir? You are letting them self govern and you have no claim on Kashmir in this picture.

General Musharraf:

But we both, I am saying, we both ought to be prepared to give up all that we have been saying. And this includes all this. If we reach an agreement where we are giving self-governance, yes indeed, that is it.

He said Both INDIA and Pakistan have to agree to self-governence for Kashmiris right again my dear indians
What dose this mean ? Self-Governence for Kashmiris

Dr Prannoy Roy: So you are prepared to give up your claim to Kashmir?

General Musharraf: We will have to, yes, if this solution comes up.

Demand for plebiscite

President Musharraf also makes it clear that if the four-point solution is agreed upon, Pakistan will give up on the UN resolutions and its long-standing demand for a plebiscite.

Pakistan giving up its claim on Kashmir would be a historic turnaround and is based on the four-point solution for Kashmir.

The giving up calim for plebside is based on based on the four-point solution for Kashmir
means again Self-governence for Kashmiries on Both sides

India has refused to re-draw the boundaries of Kashmir or give away any territory, while Pakistan refused to accept the Line of Control as the international border.Under the 4-point solution, these two basic conditions are not changed.[/QUOTE]


This is the crux dear indians hope u had now understand Bull it was a pathatic try on ur part dear .

Musharraf said if we agreed upon four point- formula Pakistan wont stress for plebeside righ and now look at the above highlighted points it clreay says that there is no provisionunder four-point formula wherein India and Pakistan change their stance on Kashmir.

Too bad Bull do u think BR propoganda would work ?

 

[kazmi]

ok you guys are so smart. what is your saloution?

 

[Awesome]

Lol some people get blinded by entire terminology

This is essentially what I've been harpin on and on and on. India and Pakistan BOTH give up Kashmir and let an independent Kashmir be formed.

 

[Srirangan]

Verbatim (Jana I hope you know what this means!) Mr. Musharraf is "against Kashmir Independence" if India agrees to his 4 point proposal.

Please note I have quoted "against Kashmir Independence" because they are Mushy's words and not mine.

The actual transcripts:

Dr Prannoy Roy: When you talk about self governance of Kashmir, we won't not go into the details that we will leave the bureaucrats and…

General Musharraf: Yes, legal side legal...

Dr Prannoy Roy: Are you then saying, no independence for Kashmir?

General Musharraf: Yes, we are against independence.

Dr Prannoy Roy: You are against independence?

General Musharraf: Absolutely, and so is India.

This is not media spin, these are bloody transcripts, the interview will air here tonight. I believe it is already available (for subscription) on ndtv.com.

 

[Awesome]

Official stance of Pakistan has always been to be against independence.

Notice in the interview he say details need to be worked out. Then he calls it to be something in between autonomy and independence.

Notice how he says "Absolutely and so is India"

IF and ONLY IF, India agrees to it, shall we agree to it. We don't feel charitable to give up Kashmir.

 

[Srirangan]

Official stance of Pakistan has always been to be against independence.

Then why the "azaadi buland azaadi" rant for two and a half decades! Bah!

 

[Spring Onion]

Sri four point forumla is for their self-governence on both sides and tell would india allow Kashmir to be entirely independant?
if not than what Indian wants ?
And Musharraf also said "Absolutely and so is India"

 

[KashifAsrar]

I guess another cruel joke is going to be played by Indian and Pakistan governments. the ultimate sufferes would be the peace loving people of the two countries.
Kashif

 

[Bull]

What a typical attempt by Indians
Sure u guys are damn good at twistign things for propoganda hmmmmm

now look at the text?

General Musharraf: Yes, legal side legal...

Dr Prannoy Roy: Are you then saying, no independence for Kashmir?

General Musharraf: Yes, we are against independence.

Dr Prannoy Roy: You are against independence?

General Musharraf: Absolutely, and so is India.?

What did u understand???He clearly says he will give up on the claim on Kashmir and its independence.

Well only ignorant fools would believe Mushraff will give up for nothing.

Too bad Bull do u think BR propoganda would work ?

Got carried away by title of the link, poor soul!!! its not BR but NDTV.

Check it again..http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/newsrf.php?newsid=7844

 

[Bull]

Lol some people get blinded by entire terminology

This is essentially what I've been harpin on and on and on. India and Pakistan BOTH give up Kashmir and let an independent Kashmir be formed.

Mushraff is saying something which is totally different,he says india and pak shud adminster it together and there wont be any independence.

Which basically means under the pretext of a sacrifice he gets access to majority of the Kashmir valley,which even after 50 years of covert war paksitan coudnt win from india.

 

[Bull]

Official stance of Pakistan has always been to be against independence.

Notice in the interview he say details need to be worked out. Then he calls it to be something in between autonomy and independence.

Notice how he says "Absolutely and so is India"

IF and ONLY IF, India agrees to it, shall we agree to it. We don't feel charitable to give up Kashmir.

We have seen the BB shouting in muzzafarabad " azaadi azaadi" and thats when she was in power.Why has Pksistan time and again said they are only providing "moral support" to freedom fighters.

 

[Bull]

Sri four point forumla is for their self-governence on both sides and tell would india allow Kashmir to be entirely independant?
if not than what Indian wants ?
And Musharraf also said "Absolutely and so is India"

Why would india want to give indepependence to kashmir?its an integral part of India.

Pak hasnt gained anything except for that junk part of NW kashmir which is in tatters,while india kept the better half.Now Mushraff is trying to get access to the better half that India has thru this "sacrifice".

Paksitan in all these years has been trying for an annexation under the pretext of freedom fighting.