Pak to start production of high tech Al-Khalid 2 tank

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

When the ZERO HOUR arrives---there is a good chance that officers from both sides may not push the button for the nuc launch---. Or a traitor like Nawaz or Zardari in power refuses to give the launch orders

That is the human factor---.

But no officer would refuse going for the conventional war.

We need to understand---in order to arm our systems---it takes a certain amount of time---.

The enemy has been training to act within that time frame---so that is not a problem.

The factor of uncertainty is:---

1. what if some of the systems are NOT ready for launch

2. what if they missed a few locations and ended up at the wrong target

So---in the end---conventional is the best---.

Fight out a few battles on a few fronts---release the built up pressure---the world interferes to stop the hostilities---you go back to your old selves again.

Enemies of pakistan would state---nuc threats are fine---conventional weapons are no good---.

Why---because they have already planned---at time of hostility---they will lay down their weapons saying---we don't have the weapons to fight conventional---and things are not that bad that we go nuclear---so there is no use fighting---" raise our hands in submission ".

In the end---they will still keep their jobs---because enemy needs someone to manage---and we lose our freedom---because we allowed cowards to rule us.

 

[war&peace]

Hi,

When the ZERO HOUR arrives---there is a good chance that officers from both sides may not push the button for the nuc launch---. Or a traitor like Nawaz or Zardari in power refuses to give the launch orders

That is the human factor---.

But no officer would refuse going for the conventional war.

We need to understand---in order to arm our systems---it takes a certain amount of time---.

The enemy has been training to act within that time frame---so that is not a problem.

The factor of uncertainty is:---

1. what if some of the systems are ready for launch

2. what if they missed a few locations and ended up at the wrong target

So---in the end---conventional is the best---.

Fight out a few battles on a few fronts---release the built up pressure---the world interferes to stop the hostilities---you go back to your old selves again.

Enemies of pakistan would state---nuc threats are fine---conventional weapons are no good---.

Why---because they have already planned---at time of hostility---they will lay down their weapons saying---we don't have the weapons to fight conventional---and things are not that bad that we go nuclear---so there is no use fighting---" raise our hands in submission ".

In the end---they will still keep their jobs---because enemy needs someone to manage---and we lose our freedom---because we allowed cowards to rule us.

Nuclear war will mean total destruction between the two countries....it won't be immediate but a slow painful human tragedy. Rather the ones who disappear in direct strikes will be the lucky ones. Perils of nuclear war are unimaginable...Japan got only two nuke strikes and modern nukes are much more powerful and a nuclear exchange between Pakistan and Indian will see at least around 200 - 300 devices exchanged. The radioactive material will spread well beyond subcontinent bounds and many countries including Bangladesh, Myanmar, Nepal, Afghanistan, Iran and even China (though China may be affected a bit less due to the natural barrier of Himalayas) will be severely affected while the middle east, Europe and Northern Africa will also be affected in long term rather the whole globe will be affected directly and indirectly because a lot of never encountered physical phenomena will be triggered and humanity will not be prepared for them like nuclear winter etc.

Just read about the Chernobyl explosion and its affect. So Pak-India nuclear war is something the world cannot afford and Pakistan can use this to open up some closed doors for strengthening its conventional power and be treated fairly the world powers.

 

[MastanKhan]

Nuclear war will mean total destruction between the two countries....it won't be immediate but a slow painful human tragedy. Rather the ones who disappear in direct strikes will be the lucky ones. Perils of nuclear war are unimaginable...Japan got only two nuke strikes and modern nukes are much more powerful and a nuclear exchange between Pakistan and Indian will see at least around 200 - 300 devices exchanged. The radioactive material will spread well beyond subcontinent bounds and many countries including Bangladesh, Myanmar, Nepal, Afghanistan, Iran and even China (though China may be affected a bit less due to the natural barrier of Himalayas) will be severely affected while the middle east, Europe and Northern Africa will also be affected in long term rather the whole globe will be affected directly and indirectly because a lot of never encountered physical phenomena will be triggered and humanity will not be prepared for them like nuclear winter etc.

Just read about the Chernobyl explosion and its affect. So Pak-India nuclear war is something the world cannot afford and Pakistan can use this to open up some closed doors for strengthening its conventional power and be treated fairly the world powers.

Hi,

For that very reason of the destruction that you mentioned---my fears and concerns will come true---.

They will not push the button at the final moment---.

Locating all the nuc sites is just a matter of time.

 

[war&peace]

Hi,

For that very reason of the destruction that you mentioned---my fears and concerns will come true---.

They will not push the button at the final moment---.

Locating all the nuc sites is just a matter of time.

Well, I think they will be overruled.
Remember Nawaz did not want to test the nukes but he was forced to do that. Zardari even offered nukes on platter for a USD 100 billion deal but it didn't realise. If the nation has made something, despite being ruled by traitors, there are always good people.

 

[randomradio]

Hi,

For that very reason of the destruction that you mentioned---my fears and concerns will come true---.

They will not push the button at the final moment---.

Locating all the nuc sites is just a matter of time.

Pakistan has a lot to fear from counterforce attacks during the first few minutes of a war.

 

[MastanKhan]

Well, I think they will be overruled.

Hi,

Give me one example of OVERRULED---. Pak military generals are extremely docile.

 

[war&peace]

Hi,

Give me one example of OVERRULED---. Pak military generals are extremely docile.

That's the reason

Remember Nawaz did not want to test the nukes but he was forced to do that. Zardari even offered nukes on platter for a USD 100 billion deal but it didn't realise. If the nation has made something, despite being ruled by traitors, there are always good people.

 

[Joe Shearer]

so who put you in think tank???

those overwhelming numbers are mostly t 72 with 1000 or so t 90 facing 600 alkhalids and unknown number al zarar....

kindly watch some of 1000s of vidoes out of Syria to see what happens to t 72 when it faces armed civilians let alone an army

defence is a corner stone of a nation as much as education....

you don't want to be a nation of well educated eunichs with excellent health system???? do you???

only concern is why will it take 4 years from now to start production.. HIT needs to up a notch a bit

@Kaptaan

The responses are predictably personal attacks. I hate the caste system, but PDF could do with one.

He mixed up vehicle electronics with avionics I guess.

I suppose it could have got worse. He might have talked about the wireless set.

thrust vectoring someone?

of a floating tank ;like below will need such package

Stop! STOP!!

Please give me five minutes to get the coffee out of my nose and my sinuses.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Modern battle Tanks employ lot of electronic gadgets such as ground to airborne radio link, enhanced GPS (location reporting), tank’s internal monitoring computer which manages the engine and tells you which part is faulty and laser aiming device etc. I wouldn’t be surprised if they come up with a helmet mounted gun sight for the future MBT. Perhaps Hon Alimobin memon is referring to electronic devices used in the MBT as 'Avionics'.

However, strictly speaking ‘Avionics’ is the name given to the Aviation Electronics and only used when referring to the computers, auto pilot, radar & communication systems etc of the aircraft.

I was just teasing the kids, Sir.

That is subjective. I would say no more than 500 tanks.

Agreed. Which is why I have said in other threads Pak does not need a large navy. A small coastel force and few ships is enough to perform maritime security tasks.

What Pakistan needs doing is -

• Have a small "strike force" in the army ~ max 500 tanks. This should provide sufficient nuclear threshold. Too high and it increases the possibility of war as both countries might feel they can accomplish or "play" within the threshold. A more tighter and lower threshold will force governments on both sides to behave themselves and stay within the very tight "red lines". This would reduce room for adventure and war. Whatever threshold Pakistan goes for India will be able to destroy as India simply has far greater population resources by a factor of 6.5 times and can deploy a vastly greater conventional force.
  
• 
  
• Therefore go for a low threshold that does not strain Pakistan's resources that might lead to something similiar as what happened to Soviet Union and implode under the strain.
  
• 
  
• Thus have a lean military with clear and unambiogious declared nuclear use policy as deterance. India must know that as soon as the small Pak Army "strike force" is destroyed Pakistan will place the finger on the trigger. Leaving no doubts in New Delhi what the consequences will be of continued progression in hostilities.
• 
  
• Maintain a robust defence posture layered as follows on a escalating progressive scale. 1 - Conventional strike force. 2 - Tactical nuclear force. 3. Strategic nuclear force.
• 
  
• Understand that with nuclear forces in place there is nominal threat to Pakistan from any exogenous states including India or even USA. Thus focus on nuclear forces making sure they keep a robust and effective nuclear profile and that is conspicious by it's deployment.
• 
  
• Understand that at present the greatest threat to the Pakistani state is from internal schisms and radical groups. Followed by economic collapse that would feed into the schisms and radical groups agenda. Therefore money saved from the reduced "India centric " forces is invested in huge internal security force similar to Turkish Jandarma numbering at least 400,000 that has air, MRAPs, all other specialist equipent to go and secure the internal stability of the country by taking on all radical and anti-state groups head on.

Increase money on primary education nuturing a new generation that can help leverage the massive potential of the CPEC project and trade with China.

How come when I say these things I am a Pakistan-hating Indian troll, and when you say this, you are an iconoclastic but startlingly original Pakistani out of the box geniuses?


My notes have largely been on the Navy, the Pakistan Navy, but the same model applies to all three services.

 

[MastanKhan]

That's the reason

Hi,

Nawaz was forced to do the tests is different than actual launch orders---when the FATE OF HUMANITY is at your disposal---the unpredictable starts to happen.

Hands shake---doubts arise---images of your family and friends---your neighborhood---your country flash by in front of you---you get into a daze---it is the absolute test of obedience of a soldier---where he knows that the push of a button is going to obliterate thousands and thousands of innocent people---and possibly the whole world---.

Just to be in-charge of that position would be traumatic---and not knowing when it would happen is a crushing burden in itself.

There will be no communication after the order has been passed or an enemy strike made----all systems would close down & no connection to the outside comms---they will look at the procedure guidelines---some will act---some may not---.

The american strike teams pre positioned in pakistan in the vicinity of the nuc sites would move at a lightening speed along with those based in AFG and Bahrain.

A lots of unpredictability confusion and chaos---pakistan would be the biggest loser in the end---.

Bottomline---have a better conventional force---have a deep strike capable air force that can hurt targets on the indian coastline---. @Khafee

 

[war&peace]

Hi,

Nawaz was forced to do the tests is different than actual launch orders---when the FATE OF HUMANITY is at your disposal---the unpredictable starts to happen.

Hands shake---doubts arise---images of your family and friends---your neighborhood---your country flash by in front of you---you get into a daze---it is the absolute test of obedience of a soldier---where he knows that the push of a button is going to obliterate thousands and thousands of innocent people---and possibly the whole world---.

Just to be in-charge of that position would be traumatic---and not knowing when it would happen is a crushing burden in itself.

There will be no communication after the order has been passed or an enemy strike made----all systems would close down & no connection to the outside comms---they will look at the procedure guidelines---some will act---some may not---.

The american strike teams pre positioned in pakistan in the vicinity of the nuc sites would move at a lightening speed along with those based in AFG and Bahrain.

A lots of unpredictability confusion and chaos---pakistan would be the biggest loser in the end---.

Bottomline---have a better conventional force---have a deep strike capable air force that can hurt targets on the indian coastline---. @Khafee

Nice stuff I must say sir.. very suitable for a novel. But in the real world the button will be pressed because it is human instinct not to go extinct. I hope you get it. But you're free to believe whatever you want.

 

[alimobin memon]

thrust vectoring someone?

of a floating tank ;like below will need such package

One of the best games I ever Played sad there was not sequel to it. Battle Zone II and 1

 

[Hilltops]

No surprise this has got Gangoos shaking in their Dhotis

 

[python-000]

Dose even Pakistan finalize the design of AK2 or can we see it on PDF !!!

 

[ziaulislam]

That is subjective. I would say no more than 500 tanks.

Agreed. Which is why I have said in other threads Pak does not need a large navy. A small coastel force and few ships is enough to perform maritime security tasks.

Increase money on primary education nuturing a new generation that can help leverage the massive potential of the CPEC project and trade with China.

Pakistan problem is not over spending on defense but lack of reforms, corruption and loss making govt entities
(whose loss was equal to half of the defense budget, PIA (>500 million $ loss and total liabilities of 424 billion rupees)alone has more losses than PAF budget lol)

a good case study will be Nigeria, oil exporting supposedly rich country?
with little defense spending!

but look at corruption level yo will forget Pakistan

-------
pakistan needs 500 tanks with active protection system al haider
500 alkalid 1
Khalid, type 80UDs, type 85 that around 1000 needs to have some upgrades
=2000
500 alzarrars in reserve or retired by than

we should explore african market for al zarrar upgrade project