Pak to counter India by inducting 500 BVR missiles

[Arsalan]

SE, you asked the date and I gave you. If US changed its policy then the blk 52 will never arrive so its irrelevant to ask for the date.

Personally, I do think US would deny the blk-52. They sanctioned us before because they did not need us, and because we won't be getting the same capability from elsewhere. If they sanction us now, not only they have a lot to loose till this WoT is over, but they will also loose a market for no reason. If the aim is to keep PAF capability low, then that won't work because today China is far more advance to offer an alternative. PAF is already being offered the FC-20 which probably surpasses the capability of the blk-52. I would have been more worried if we were buying the blk-60.

They have much to loose if they do not deliver it this time around unless something drastic happen like we opt out of the WoT and go against US.

very well said!
even if some people with disagree that FC20 wont be on par with the F16 Blk-52, my poijnt is, why not invest the money from the deal of F16 (a very unreliable deal) into the FC20 project and make it on par, even better than the F16!
atleast we will be sure to get them in time!!

the thing is that: PAF dont need a block 52 when it is being retired all around the world!! better give it to us soon or say bye to the deal and look of rother opportunities!!

regards!

 

[SQ8]

Block 52 is not being retired, the older block 25's and 30's are and that too only in the USAF. Only recently did Greece get its new Blk 52's delivered.
You want to talk of early retirement then its the F.A/2 Sea Harrier. retired 6 years after the last was delivered.

 

[Patriot]

Correct, Block52 is the most advanced F16 version and all nations ordering F16 now order Block52 (Barring Block60 as it's exclusive to UAE Only!) Greece is set to recieve few F16's Block52 in coming years.

 

[Arsalan]

Block 52 is not being retired, the older block 25's and 30's are and that too only in the USAF. Only recently did Greece get its new Blk 52's delivered.
You want to talk of early retirement then its the F.A/2 Sea Harrier. retired 6 years after the last was delivered.

i guess i have not made you understand my point dear! what i said is that: we donot want want F16 when it is being retired, better give it to us now!!
i mean to say that it wont be of any use if the US deleivers it to us in 2025! it is a plane of today and no point in getting it after a decade!! we want it now we need it now! i mean to say that the deal must not be delayed again and agian for one reason or the other and then the deleivery start when it might be too late!
they are said to be give in 2010 and i wish this time line is followed as if it get late it wont be of much use!!

i hope i have made my point clear now!
sorry for the misunderstanding if it came form my side!!

regards!

 

[Enigma SIG]

It was a good decision at the time (2005 earthquake) to delay the purchase; as it allowed the PAF to reconsider the JF-17's specification and include more of the aircraft type in our inventory.

We should look towards indigineous manufacturing; we still cannot manufacture aircraft engines; we ought to look at that too...

 

[SQ8]

Hmm.. No matter on the faux pas.. we both made it.
But I dont think the will delay it unnecessarily. In case they dont want to deliver it. They'll find another customer. But I have a feeling they might just hold onto thier word and send 18 puny jets our way.

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

i guess i have not made you understand my point dear! what i said is that: we donot want want F16 when it is being retired, better give it to us now!!
i mean to say that it wont be of any use if the US deleivers it to us in 2025! it is a plane of today and no point in getting it after a decade!! we want it now we need it now! i mean to say that the deal must not be delayed again and agian for one reason or the other and then the deleivery start when it might be too late!
they are said to be give in 2010 and i wish this time line is followed as if it get late it wont be of much use!!

i hope i have made my point clear now!
sorry for the misunderstanding if it came form my side!!

regards!

i dont think so that f16 b-52 is going to be delivered acc to the attitude of usa.
we r going to repeat our past like 90's.
i agree with arsalanaslam123 .thats why i made a threat out there named as WHY PAKISTAN NOT PURCHASING RAFALE?.if we had a deal with france for rafale,by adding a few more billions in the amount of f-16 deal,probably we would b flying 3 or 4 rafale in initial delivery. now we hav waisted our mony and wishing for good.
plz let go usa now

 

[Comet]

What about the F16's we already paid for back in 90's?

 

[Sargodhian_Eagle]

What about the F16's we already paid for back in 90's?

U have eaten wheat for them

 

[Lockheed F-16]

What about the F16's we already paid for back in 90's?

Haha forget them, the money is set in sand like the planes were. We had to learn a lesson. IThey proved us how reliable they were, not even giving us the money back.

 

[Enigma SIG]

But I have a feeling they might just hold onto thier word and send 18 puny jets our way.

Worst thing that could happen is they could screw the deal and we end up without the jets and without the money; they wont be giving us technology which they know would be fielded against India.

 

[Contrarian]

If the aim is to keep PAF capability low, then that won't work because today China is far more advance to offer an alternative. PAF is already being offered the FC-20 which probably surpasses the capability of the blk-52. I would have been more worried if we were buying the blk-60.

The FC-20 is nowhere near the F-16 blk 52. The capabilities offered by the F-16 blk 52 are literally unmatched by anything the PAF can procure for the next 5-7 years-and that includes the FC-20. That again is assuming that the FC-20 incorporates an AESA radar-which is doubtful to begin with.

You are completely underestimating the blk 52 and overestimating Chinese capabilities.

 

[blain2]

The FC-20 is nowhere near the F-16 blk 52. The capabilities offered by the F-16 blk 52 are literally unmatched by anything the PAF can procure for the next 5-7 years-and that includes the FC-20. That again is assuming that the FC-20 incorporates an AESA radar-which is doubtful to begin with.

You are completely underestimating the blk 52 and overestimating Chinese capabilities.

The benefit of the FC-20 is that it can be customized as PAF would like it. We are not planning on inducting any until 2013-14 time frame in any case as such the aircraft may have very formidable avionics by that time for deployment. China of today is not the same as China of yesteryear or tomorrow. A lot of nifty stuff coming out of there. Their own problem is economies of scale. Making the cost worth it for induction. Otherwise they are producing stuff which is fairly good.

 

[Contrarian]

The benefit of the FC-20 is that it can be customized as PAF would like it. We are not planning on inducting any until 2013-14 time frame in any case as such the aircraft may have very formidable avionics by that time for deployment. China of today is not the same as China of yesteryear or tomorrow. A lot of nifty stuff coming out of there. Their own problem is economies of scale. Making the cost worth it for induction. Otherwise they are producing stuff which is fairly good.

Their electronics are dubious and their proclaimed indigenous engines have been made with direct Russian involvement.

Now i seriously doubt their claims. In either case, the benefit of customizing a plane is only when you are dissatisfied with the product-which you would be with Chinese planes.

With US plane, like the blk 52, you already get more than what you can possibly procure, barring things like AESA(which again, PAF will obtain in the future from US itself).

Case in point-India modified the Su-30K to Su-30MKI not because it fancied doing so, but because of lack of capabilities. Had the product been as good as the MKI or if it even had an upgrade path designed by Russians which would have incorporated new features steadily, India would not have gone to third parties.

The way i see things-going for Chinese products has a lot to do with soft loans or friendship prices and no fear of sanctions-but as with everything you have to compromise-on the equipment level.

 

[mean_bird]

The FC-20 is nowhere near the F-16 blk 52. The capabilities offered by the F-16 blk 52 are literally unmatched by anything the PAF can procure for the next 5-7 years-and that includes the FC-20. That again is assuming that the FC-20 incorporates an AESA radar-which is doubtful to begin with.

You are completely underestimating the blk 52 and overestimating Chinese capabilities.

And just how did you arrive at that conclusion?

You seem to be pretty certain of the capabilities of both of them. Please compare and contrast the performance of both of them and add to my knowledge.