Pak Responds: FO call's Mullen's bluff, No evidence shared with us.

[VCheng]

America has been demystified by the two wars, basically a rag tag illiterate rabble with AK's and RPG's has exposed the US.

IN THE LATE summer of 9 AD, during the 36th year of the reign of the emperor Augustus, a Roman commander by the name of Publius Quinctilius Varus led three Roman legions through the forests of Germany on what he believed would be little more than a routine expedition.

Varus lost THREE LEGIONS of Roman soldiers, totaling at least 20,000 men. The tribesmen only lost around 500. Everything that could go wrong did and Varus made mistake after mistake.

"Quintilius Varus, give me back my legions."
- Augustus Caesar

Was the constant cry of the Emperor - thus do Empires decline.

It ain't over yet. Just waiting for the fat lady to sing!

 

[Meengla]

Further, do you think Mullen is doing this all by himself? He is part of an overall team tasked with achieving certain goals to further US national interests, and that will always be the case.

No denying that.
And would that be in Pakistan's interests to have a strong and strongly pro-India govt. in Afghanistan where not only the Durand Line issue will be raised again but also acts of terrorism inside Pakistan--much like in the 80's--will even more sky-rocket.

This is Pakistan-India proxy war again. And people like NY Times' N. Kristoff gently point out that the peace in the region lies through Kashmir.

 

[VCheng]

No denying that.
And would that be in Pakistan's interests to have a strong and strongly pro-India govt. in Afghanistan where not only the Durand Line issue will be raised again but also acts of terrorism inside Pakistan--much like in the 80's--will even more sky-rocket.

This is Pakistan-India proxy war again. And people like NY Times' N. Kristoff gently point out that the peace in the region lies through Kashmir.

Of course there is no denying Pakistan's right to pursue its own national interest, but when there is a clash between differing national interests, the mechanisms of "resolution" tend to somehow favor the stronger party.

 

[Meengla]

Of course there is no denying Pakistan's right to pursue its own national interest, but when there is a clash between differing national interests, the mechanisms of "resolution" tend to somehow favor the stronger party.

Yes, good. Thank you for confirming what someone else says about above: 'Might is right'.

Next time you are out in the 'hood and some big guy slaps you 'turn the other cheek', will ya?!

 

[mohammed007]

Its surely the act of India's RAW along with separatists terrorists working in our country like-
balochistan movement
balawaristan .... sindhudesh... waziristan... pashtunistan and united jammu and kashmir...

Allah will never allow this victory will finally be ours

 

[VCheng]

Yes, good. Thank you for confirming what someone else says about above: 'Might is right'.

Next time you are out in the 'hood and some big guy slaps you 'turn the other cheek', will ya?!

Well, I only speak the truth, always have, and always will!

 

[Jango]

Lets look at the facts in front of us people.

We did not see or look at any sort of evidence of OBL being thrown to sea or being in US custody whatsoever. Are we just supposed to believe that OBL was killed just like that. This way the US would have said anything anytime and the world believes them. What a world we live in.

Similarly, Mullen says that ISI attacked, and we believe him?
On what grounds do we believe in him?
What are the facts that have been given to us ?
Just merely statements?

I would rather believe our FO rather than him.
On a side note, the statements coming from the FO and all, they are not really supposed to know whether we are covertly supporting them or not , are they? They would just be defending Pakistan, without knowing the facts IMo. The only people knpwing the truth would be DG ISI, COAS, maybe DGMO and PM .

 

[mr42O]

Pakistan is not Iraq , not Afghanistan and not Libya too. If USA try they will never stand up again and Indian jumping here u are not safe either !!!

 

[Meengla]

Well, I only speak the truth, always have, and always will!

Other than your Might is Right principle, you do have any other 'convictions' or 'truths'?

I thought a senior member like you would resist from calling others as 'conspiracy theorists' and would actually try to defend American policies in the region--even at the expense of Pakistani interests--with some data, facts.

I see no evidence or logic that Pakistan's ISI would want to target a hot target like the American Embassy. And yet you parrot the lines from Mullens and Panetta.

BTW, love for both America and Pakistan should not be mutually exclusive. Not everyone thinks like GWBush in this world. There is much to be loved in all countries, including India.

 

[mr42O]

And who do belive USA ?? How many times world have seen how USA tell "truth" and give world fake evidence.

America is like dying animal who are kicking all over to get out of mess they digged them inself. 10 years in Afghanistan and cant beat Taliban and they tink one of worlds biggest nation and there ppl living all over world will let them win ???

 

[VCheng]

Lets look at the facts in front of us people.

We did not see or look at any sort of evidence of OBL being thrown to sea or being in US custody whatsoever. Are we just supposed to believe that OBL was killed just like that. This way the US would have said anything anytime and the world believes them. What a world we live in.

Similarly, Mullen says that ISI attacked, and we believe him?
On what grounds do we believe in him?
What are the facts that have been given to us ?
Just merely statements?

I would rather believe our FO rather than him.
On a side note, the statements coming from the FO and all, they are not really supposed to know whether we are covertly supporting them or not , are they? They would just be defending Pakistan, without knowing the facts IMo. The only people knpwing the truth would be DG ISI, COAS, maybe DGMO and PM .

Okay, look at it this way:

If it is a "he says; she says" type of scenario between the US and Pakistan, whose words are likely to carry the day?

---------- Post added at 12:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:58 AM ----------

Other than your Might is Right principle, you do have any other 'convictions' or 'truths'?

I thought a senior member like you would resist from calling others as 'conspiracy theorists' and would actually try to defend American policies in the region--even at the expense of Pakistani interests--with some data, facts.

I see no evidence or logic that Pakistan's ISI would want to target a hot target like the American Embassy. And yet you parrot the lines from Mullens and Panetta.

BTW, love for both America and Pakistan should not be mutually exclusive. Not everyone thinks like GWBush in this world. There is much to be loved in all countries, including India.

Did you miss this post?

Well, one reasons is that as long as the US remains in Afghanistan, the General's Express gravy train likely keeps on rolling.

 

[Meengla]

Okay, look at it this way:

If it is a "he says; she says" type of scenario between the US and Pakistan, whose words are likely to carry the day?

---------- Post added at 12:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:58 AM ----------



Did you miss this post?

Yes, I missed it. Well, only in this thread. I am aware of that 'logic'. When will foreigners ever say that they 'hate the people'? It is always changing the 'ruling elite'. The 'regime'. In Pakistan's case it is the 'generals' being isolated to divide and make Pakistan to do vital concessions.

I simply don't buy the 'generals gravy train' logic at all.
I tend to support the PPP in Pakistan and we 'jialas' have a long list of grievances against the Pakistani generals and I am wary of their influence.

In fact, upon the informal graduation 'comments' book for the University of Karachi, one question was 'Who do you hate most?' And I wrote 'The Pakistani Army Generals'. That was many moons ago.

So...I have no love for the army and their various enterprises as such.

But Pakistani society--not just the Army--but even the anti-Army forces like PMLN have formed a consensus that ceding Afghanistan to India will make not only Pakistan's strategic situation much worse but will also cause the Durand Line issue to be raised as well as acts of terrorism inside Pakistan to spike.

 

[AkhandIndia]

Pakistan is not Iraq , not Afghanistan and not Libya too. If USA try they will never stand up again and Indian jumping here u are not safe either !!!

 

[VCheng]

.....................
But Pakistani society--not just the Army--but even the anti-Army forces like PMLN have formed a consensus that ceding Afghanistan to India will make not only Pakistan's strategic situation much worse but will also cause the Durand Line issue to be raised as well as acts of terrorism inside Pakistan to spike.

I accept that position, since it is Pakistan's right to put its own national interest first and foremost.

However, Pakistan will have to overcome the opposing forces with whatever means necessary, and I will point out again here that the US side will do the same. The stronger hand will win. Simple.

 

[Rafi]

It ain't over yet. Just waiting for the fat lady to sing!

2014 anyone, the US has admitted defeat, after all the blood and treasure poured into making Afghanistan into Switzerland in Central Asia.

The US made a mistake of epic proportions when it decided to become a part of the Afghan Civil War, the next big mistake was to invade Iraq (more blood and treasure) allowed the Tab's to regroup.

We have legitimate interests in Afghan, tickles me what were the Yanks trying to do to Castro - a tiny Communist country who's main export is sugar, lectures Pak - about Afghan.

---------- Post added at 09:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:18 PM ----------

Other than your Might is Right principle, you do have any other 'convictions' or 'truths'?

I thought a senior member like you would resist from calling others as 'conspiracy theorists' and would actually try to defend American policies in the region--even at the expense of Pakistani interests--with some data, facts.

I see no evidence or logic that Pakistan's ISI would want to target a hot target like the American Embassy. And yet you parrot the lines from Mullens and Panetta.

BTW, love for both America and Pakistan should not be mutually exclusive. Not everyone thinks like GWBush in this world. There is much to be loved in all countries, including India.

He is a lost cause, basically a neo-con in disguise, let him believe in the hubris of Manifest Destiny, it is serving his country well.