Pak race for tactical nukes adds new poison to the mix

[Armstrong]

No one is talking of targeting Lahore or Karachi or Delhi or Mumbai directly.

It will be a graded, instant, non-negotiable response.

An escalatory reprisal to show Pakistan the danger of its current course of action.

A couple of small towns or villages with or without strategic importance, but with an established military presence.

Small satellite air bases.

Rahim Yar Khan.

Bahwalpur.

Sub-100 thousand. A message.

And that message will call for a similar response ! Hence why even at a tactical level the deterrent serves its purpose to ensure that there is no escalation of hostilities beyond a stand-off or a sorry excuse for a skirmish because either of the High Commands will have to factor in these things & if the probable casualties incurred from the conventional prism wasn't enough you've got nukes on a tactical level to increase that amount by a factor of God knows how many !

Suppose Pakistan targets the first 5-6 Indian FOBs with tactical nukes & makes them redundant; what would India's response be ? Taking out a 10-20 of smaller towns or villages with conspicuous if not important military presence ? No & we'd be foolish to assume as such ! The response would be 10-20 Pakistani FOBs to knock the PAF virtually out of service. But because the corresponding response by Pakistan would be of a similar nature the stakes becomes so..so very high. Most of these tactical nukes are either air-launched, land launched or in the form of very mobile platforms able to traverse the length & breadth of Pakistan in a matter of hours & to be cheap enough to be procured in large numbers. Thats the dilemma over here - If you press & we launch & you launch in retaliation & we reply once more ! We would have obliterated most of our armed forces & many civilians in the vicinity in a matter of hours. Thats why this is so effective as a deterrent because from the signal to advance to the first push of the button the stakes are so...so very high that neither side would risk it !

So it all again comes down to - Are we bluffing & how much are either of us willing to risk it to find out ?

 

[vsdoc]

The thing is by the time India gets to exercise these option , it will already have lost a couple of invading armoured columns which are necessary to overwhelm the Pakistan Army formation , any less than that and PA can handle it easily ... You can only use Tactical Nuclear Weapon after Pakistan does it ... It is left upto your Generals to decide whether to continue the adventure with a demoralized army but for what objective ? The main purpose of CSD will be already lost , your army couldn't teach Pakistan a lesson , even if it did , it wasn't without losing a huge chunk of its troops ... Nothing will be simpler for you , my friend ...

Well you are , when your countrymen from Page 1 how Pakistan's major cities are going to be attacked and SPD just going to sit and watch ...

Do you know how many strike corps India has?

Do you think once in, India will withdraw without meeting its objective?

You are going to defeat the third largest army in the world with a tactical nuke?

Are you friggin serious here?

 

[Rajput_Pakistani]

I once again want to enforce my point that TNW is also a deterrent just..

India has not the ability to destroy Pakistan in a conventional war either. All military think tanks agree that 3:1 attacking:defending will end up in a stalemate. Indians have only got this ratio to maximum at 2:1 at best. Armored ratio between two armies is almost equal (infect Pakistan has a qualitative advantage).

Now Indians will definitely argument about IAF superiority. First of all in modern times they have only got examples of USAF. Indians fail to understand that nor they are USA nor Pakistan is Afghanistan, Iraq or Libya.

Even USA with such an advantage over its adversaries used air force for 10 days to 2 months in all conflicts, before putting its ground forces in action. Can India afford such a strategy? For a moment assume that PAF and PN have no capability to defend themselves, even then how many LGBs, smart ammos can India afford at best? What will be the surprise element then? For how many days IA can wait for IAF to soften the targets as such to allow IA for a smooth victory?

And i with all responsibility can tell Indians one thing, Indians can never even come inside 2kms at Lahore front. You dont know what kind of defenses Pakistan has in this sector. Even after with a very bloody fight you do come inside 10kms or so, you will find yourself in an urban warfare. Lahore is a huge city now. Its dimensions are now crossing almost 50kms East-West. And in such an urban warfare entire IA will be swallowed. I am not joking you can do more research for your own.

 

[Armstrong]

Please understand that a response to a TNW over an Indian brigade on Pakistani soil does not have to be a strategic nuke. While mentioning that it will be considered as a strategic strike gives India an option to exercise should it chose to.

But there are far easier options to exercise by India as well. Examples:
1. Attacking the unit with which the nuclear warhead was launched along with its home base with small yield nukes.
2. Attacking the next military base in the line of advance.

And then halt the military advance.

You have to understand that someone somewhere in the Indian military also has brains and are not utterly bumbling fools. We are not left with the idiotic question that in loss of a brigade would India be willing to sacrifice over a billion people.

No. The India has simpler choices like the ones mentioned above. It will be upto Pakistan Army then to respond. India will have responded in kind to nuclear attack with smaller yields as well and along with maybe(?) stopping the military advance - to give breathers and not escalate further.

There are a TON of options that can be played with by India.

And it is exactly because of this uncertainty the cost of discounting the use of a tactical warhead comes at a risk that neither would be willing to explore. This time around the restraint won't be imposed but self-generated because neither side wants to put this to the test for the stakes are far..far too high.

 

[vsdoc]

Rajput Pakistani, 50 kms breadth is no big shake for a city.

Pune is close to 35-40 and we are not even the top 7 Indian cities.

A city is soft at its core.

Once in, it will be like any other embattled city, with bullet marked walls and blown out roofs.

 

[Armstrong]

Cm'on Aeronaut ! You are talking to a fanboy who understands nothing of military affairs and yields ...

Abaai Aeronaut kissss ko boltaa hai, bhai !

Its Armstrong the Buttt !

 

[Rajput_Pakistani]

Rajput Pakistani, 50 kms breadth is no big shake for a city.

Pune is close to 35-40 and we are not even the top 7 Indian cities.

A city is soft at its core.

Once in, it will be like any other embattled city, with bullet marked walls and blown out roofs.

Pehle mujhe shak tha ab yaqeen ho gya hy ke you have no sense of military matters.

Have you consider 12 million population of Lahore? Do you consider that they will welcome you with petals of roses? Have you ever been to Lahore? How will your army move through streets and roads of Lahore? What will you do when you will be fired upon from every house? You have no idea of urban warfare dude. Its better you come here for discussion with some knowledge.

 

[neokautilya2]

I once again want to enforce my point that TNW is also a deterrent just..

India has not the ability to destroy Pakistan in a conventional war either. All military think tanks agree that 3:1 attacking:defending will end up in a stalemate. Indians have only got this ratio to maximum at 2:1 at best. Armored ratio between two armies is almost equal (infect Pakistan has a qualitative advantage).

Now Indians will definitely argument about IAF superiority. First of all in modern times they have only got examples of USAF. Indians fail to understand that nor they are USA nor Pakistan is Afghanistan, Iraq or Libya.

Even USA with such an advantage over its adversaries used air force for 10 days to 2 months in all conflicts, before putting its ground forces in action. Can India afford such a strategy? For a moment assume that PAF and PN have no capability to defend themselves, even then how many LGBs, smart ammos can India afford at best? What will be the surprise element then? For how many days IA can wait for IAF to soften the targets as such to allow IA for a smooth victory?

And i with all responsibility can tell Indians one thing, Indians can never even come inside 2kms at Lahore front. You dont know what kind of defenses Pakistan has in this sector. Even after with a very bloody fight you do come inside 10kms or so, you will find yourself in an urban warfare. Lahore is a huge city now. Its dimensions are now crossing almost 50kms East-West. And in such an urban warfare entire IA will be swallowed. I am not joking you can do more research for your own.

how come a RAJPOOT in pakistan????

suryavanshi, raghuvanshi or somvanshi????

 

[Safriz]

Funny that we have been living under the shadows of 2.5 gigatons of their nukes since 1950's and their hostility and hate towards us has only risen over the years.And all the 2.5 gigaton can raid down on us in minites.

But they have to make fuss about few kilotons we got.

 

[miss]

why are you all talkig bom this and bom that....
pak's only use for these expecnsive nukes is to send a few terrorists in india.. if these nukes are ever used then all stops are pulled out. that includes water.
at the same time it wouldnt mean that pak can indefinitely keep on sending terror behind this cover? i still wonder what pak is gaining by sending terror once every few years by spending billions on nukes.

 

[vsdoc]

Pehle mujhe shak tha ab yaqeen ho gya hy ke you have no sense of military matters.

Have you consider 12 million population of Lahore? Do you consider that they will welcome you with petals of roses? Have you ever been to Lahore? How will your army move through streets and roads of Lahore? What will you do when you will be fired upon from every house? You have no idea of urban warfare dude. Its better you come here for discussion with some knowledge.

Not after we have finished pounding it with heavy ordnance and softening it up.

I give up.

You are one of those French Resistance romantics.

Your gun toting populace will be begging for mercy once the women and children start dying bro.

We are the same people. You are not Syrians or Palestinians.

 

[neokautilya2]

Pehle mujhe shak tha ab yaqeen ho gya hy ke you have no sense of military matters.

Have you consider 12 million population of Lahore? Do you consider that they will welcome you with petals of roses? Have you ever been to Lahore? How will your army move through streets and roads of Lahore? What will you do when you will be fired upon from every house? You have no idea of urban warfare dude. Its better you come here for discussion with some knowledge.

the bold part in ur comment showed us ur understanding about the warfare..... lets not discuss!!!

 

[Rajput_Pakistani]

how come a RAJPOOT in pakistan????

suryavanshi, raghuvanshi or somvanshi????

Rajputs are infect one of the largest castes in Pakistani Punjab, along with Kashmiris and Jutts (Jaat).

 

[Luftwaffe]

I would hope Pakistan works on its "Massive Ordnance Air Blast Bomb" or a lower yield ordnance that can be carried out by Mirages-F-16s. Investment should go there as well these are next best things after Tactical Nukes.

 

[Rajput_Pakistani]

the bold part in ur comment showed us ur understanding about the warfare..... lets not discuss!!!

Oh really?? care to enlighten us..