Pak Punjab's south belt breeding ground for militants: Sharif

[SamranAli]

i think those Pmln workers who attacked ISF boys were also terorrists in Upper Punjab Lahore.

 

[livingdead]

Islamic extremism/militancy is rising throughout the world, even in developed countries. Surely poverty cannot be the (main) factor behind the phenomena, although it does compound the problem. It is spreading in countries that have been relatively secular in the past, & threatening to destroy their societies' balance. It is spreading in the Asia Pacific, Central Asia, Middle East, North Africa & Europe.

And who would you be referring to as the "Creator" of this? Pakistan???

Radicalization of young muslims is a global phenomena, and contributes to terrorism, which can explain 7/7 bombers and other self-made terrorists( or a nice muslim colleague suddenly turning out to be a terrorist), but not large scale terror that happens in pakistan. You need lot of poor and illeterate people to sustain that level of violence.

BTW radicalization is not only limited to muslims, hindus and chritistians are getting radicalized too, and its only matter of time that we hear more hindus/christians doing attacks.

In India hindus have expressed their extremism through ballot, but if they get frustrated, things can change.

 

[OrionHunter]

Then you know nothing about terrorism. Poverty has everything to do with terrorism. You have money, a house, cars, good food, education, and financial security, you wouldn't dare to be a terrorist no matter how much you're inspired.

Rich people don't go on suicide bombings, they hire people to do that. And only poor people get hired for such job.
So now you see what the connection is?

I beg your pardon!

"As a group, terrorists are better educated and from wealthier families than the typical person in the same age group in the societies from which they originate", Mr. Krueger, Princeton economist said at the London School of Economics last year in a lecture soon to be published as a book, 'What Makes a Terrorist?'

“There is no evidence of a general tendency for impoverished or uneducated people to be more likely to support terrorism or join terrorist organizations than their higher-income, better-educated countrymen,” he said.

So your theory doesn't hold much water!

 

[53fd]

Radicalization of young muslims is a global phenomena, and contributes to terrorism, which can explain 7/7 bombers and other self-made terrorists( or a nice muslim colleague suddenly turning out to be a terrorist), but not large scale terror that happens in pakistan. You need lot of poor and illeterate people to sustain that level of violence.

BTW radicalization is not only limited to muslims, hindus and chritistians are getting radicalized too, and its only matter of time that we hear more hindus/christians doing attacks.

In India hindus have expressed their extremism through ballot, but if they get frustrated, things can change.

As I said for the bolded part, poverty & illiteracy only compounds on the problem. But the reason why youth gets radicalized is through ideology. In other words, the Madrassah (the extreme ones) is the reason for the radicalization. Rich people can go to Madrassahs too to get "educated", & many do, & become attackers.

For example: the 9/11 perpetrators were financially well-to-do people (but they killed nearly 3000 people in one day in the US, larger than any attack taken place inside Pakistan), the underwear bomber was well-off, the Irish bombers in the IRA were not suffering from poverty issues.

A lot of Madrassahs provide children basic necessities, such as food, shelter, some money etc. However, these incentives only draw some youths towards the Madrassah, they (poverty) do not radicalize them. It is the ideology inside the Madrassah that radicalizes them. There are children that are drawn towards Madrassahs (& the incentives they provide), but then leave as soon as they reach there. A militant will not risk his life unless he is a staunch believer in the ideology taught to him. There is a saying that goes something like this: "you can take a horse to the river, but you cannot force it to drink from it".

Now, why are we seeing Islamic extremism/militancy throughout the world today? It comes as a reaction to the imperialistic designs by 'ambitious nations' against most Muslim nations, these militants have a perceived sense of injustice & suffering; coming not from poverty, but from "occupation" of what they perceive is theirs. Which is why we are seeing a rise of Islamic radicalism/extremism/militancy in developed first world countries, relatively secular nations as well.

 

[Safriz]

I beg your pardon!

"As a group, terrorists are better educated and from wealthier families than the typical person in the same age group in the societies from which they originate", Mr. Krueger, Princeton economist said at the London School of Economics last year in a lecture soon to be published as a book, 'What Makes a Terrorist?'

“There is no evidence of a general tendency for impoverished or uneducated people to be more likely to support terrorism or join terrorist organizations than their higher-income, better-educated countrymen,” he said.

So your theory doesn't hold much water!

i dont know which country you are from..as i am on mobile and cant see flags...
but Mr.scnizer or whoever you are referring to isnt from the country he is referting to and hasnt lived there for extended period of time and his opinion is il informed

 

[bindaas]

I feel main cause of extremism in Pakistan starts with Pakistani textbooks starting with demonizing and hate-mongering against Hindus. 1971 defeat further intensified this hatred and by the time of Ziaul Haq further extremism was started triggered by Soviet-Afghan war.

But when a person is taught intolerance against a particular non-Muslim group(i.e. Hindus or atheist) it is impossible to get others excluded. And because of that we see intolerance generated against other Non-Muslims like Jews and Christians and even people of different sect like Shias are started to be considered as non-Muslims. And we can see Difa-e-Pakistan group, it has all groups- Anti-India, anti-Israel,anti-America and anti-Shia groups.

 

[clmeta]

Even General Kiyani is working for RAW. He is India's paid agent. He said we should resolve Siachen issue with dialogue. Dialogue with enemy??? RAW agent.

Nawaz Sharif is working for RAW. Its just too obvious.

First his comment about Siachen unilateral troop withdrawl, then unilateral visa withdrawal for indians, and now this.

 

[livingdead]

As I said for the bolded part, poverty & illiteracy only compounds on the problem. But the reason why youth gets radicalized is through ideology. In other words, the Madrassah (the extreme ones) is the reason for the radicalization. Rich people can go to Madrassahs too to get education, & many do, & become attackers.

For example: the 9/11 perpetrators were financially well-to-do people (but they killed nearly 3000 people in one day in the US, larger than any attack taken place inside Pakistan), the underwear bomber was well-off, the Irish bombers in the IRA were not suffering from poverty issues.

A lot of Madrassahs provide children basic necessities, such as food, shelter, some money etc. However, these incentives only draw some youths towards the Madrassah, they (poverty) do not radicalize them. It is the ideology inside the Madrassah that radicalizes them. There are children that are drawn towards Madrassahs (& the incentives they provide), but then leave as soon as they reach there. A militant will not risk his life unless he is a staunch believer in the ideology taught to him. There is a saying that goes something like this: "you can take a horse to the river, but you cannot force it to drink from it".

Now, why are we seeing Islamic extremism/militancy throughout the world today? It comes as a reaction to the imperialistic designs by 'ambitious nations' against most Muslim nations, these militants have a perceived sense of injustice & suffering; coming not from poverty, but from "occupation" of what they perceive is theirs. Which is why we are seeing a rise of Islamic radicalism/extremism/militancy in developed first world countries, relatively secular nations as well.

I do agree with everything you said, especially real or perceived sense of injustice and suffering.
But I dont understand why hindus/christians in pakistan dont turn terrorist (where as they have been so in sri lanka and northern ireland). Are they treated well, or is it that they are too small and marginalized to even contemplate such activity.

 

[SpArK]

I wonder how they pay the moles.

Or are they that cheap?

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Streamlining education is the most important thing !!!
It should have more about science and less about God, and it will automatically eradicate extremism....

 

[SQ8]

Pakistan is not the creator of Islamic extremism/militancy, it is a victim of it.

Just as Islamic extremism/militancy has been a danger to Pakistan, it is spreading in countries that have been relatively secular in the past, & threatening to destroy their societies' balance. It is spreading in the Asia Pacific, Central Asia, Middle East, North Africa & Europe; & has not affected just Pakistan, but the world throughout. It would be unfair to pin the blame on Pakistan.

It would be absolutely unfair to pin the entire blame on Pakistan..after all. these Madressa's were funded by black gold.
However, the Pakistani rulers stood by and let those with black gold pour money into such breeding centres and hence are part and participle of this phenomenon.. All in the guise to tackle the Soviet union(and perhaps Iran under a Shia revolution) and hence India... and in our quest to outsmart, and outfight an India which for all intents and purposes had shown little guile to fight us unless we provoke them.. preferring to use other indirect means to undermine us. Yet our god gifted Generals and Feudals believed that this monster was the best way to tackle their deficiency and ineptness on the conventional battlefield.
And now we suffer for it much more than the Indians ever did.
Extremism existed in Islam(and other religions..the dark ages in europe??) a few hundred years after its inception, and time and again held power and lost it.
At every point when extremism took hold, it usually ended up targeting its own kith and kin more than it did any other foe.
Today's extremism rose from Najd in Saudi Arabia and has now chosen Pakistan as its breeding ground due to a fertile "soil"..
Had the soil been acerbic to this weed in the first place if certain power in Pakistan had chosen smartly .. we would never have faced this dilemma today ..and I assure you..we would be stronger, both economically and militarily..and would have had India treating us with respect.

 

[OrionHunter]

Yet our god gifted Generals and Feudals believed that this monster was the best way to tackle their deficiency and ineptness on the conventional battlefield. And now we suffer for it much more than the Indians ever did.

Spot on! It was Zia who exacerbated the situation by encouraging extremism and religious fundamentalists to help perpetuate his stranglehold on Pakistan. From this veritable explosive cauldron spouted the various militant organizations, some of them aided and abetted by the Establishment and organized into radical outfits as a proxy force to fight the Pakistan Army's war in Kashmir and Afghanistan.

Many of these terror outfits inevitably split and have now become the monsters that the Pakistan Establishment is finding difficult to control. The TTP has even threatened to fight till it takes over the country.

Be that as it may, this is only a small part of the overall terror matrix that has spread around the world from the 70s, with a myriad organizations professing to take up arms against what they say is 'decadent' Western ideology that goes against the grain of Islam as also the forcible occupation of Muslim lands by them. They have cleverly portrayed this as a Western crusade against Islam, led by the arrogant American neo-cons.

This perception runs deep in the Muslim psyche per se especially in the Middle East/West Asia and therefore not surprisingly, there are any number of volunteers who are ready to join the bandwagon - not for power or pelf, but for what they think is the right cause.

This is what some in the West term as the 'clash of civilizations'.

 

[zip]

Blame those fathers ,mothers,teachers and society .. I think for every man at a particular age death seems thousand times better than life .. At those desperate time if parents,teachers or society made them realise that it is a coward who wants to die and brave ones are the one who are struggling to lead happy life ..
At that crucial juncture their teachers,society calls them for a violent means then most of those young minds will opt for that ..

 

[53fd]

It would be absolutely unfair to pin the entire blame on Pakistan..after all. these Madressa's were funded by black gold.
However, the Pakistani rulers stood by and let those with black gold pour money into such breeding centres and hence are part and participle of this phenomenon.. All in the guise to tackle the Soviet union(and perhaps Iran under a Shia revolution) and hence India... and in our quest to outsmart, and outfight an India which for all intents and purposes had shown little guile to fight us unless we provoke them.. preferring to use other indirect means to undermine us. Yet our god gifted Generals and Feudals believed that this monster was the best way to tackle their deficiency and ineptness on the conventional battlefield.
And now we suffer for it much more than the Indians ever did.
Extremism existed in Islam(and other religions..the dark ages in europe??) a few hundred years after its inception, and time and again held power and lost it.
At every point when extremism took hold, it usually ended up targeting its own kith and kin more than it did any other foe.
Today's extremism rose from Najd in Saudi Arabia and has now chosen Pakistan as its breeding ground due to a fertile "soil"..
Had the soil been acerbic to this weed in the first place if certain power in Pakistan had chosen smartly .. we would never have faced this dilemma today ..and I assure you..we would be stronger, both economically and militarily..and would have had India treating us with respect.

I suggest you do a little bit of background reading on where the extremism came from, if you think its creator is Pakistan. Pre-1947, minorities in Pakistan lived peacefully under the banner of the majority Barelvi influence. It was the Deobandis from India that infiltrated Pakistan post-1947 made things the way they are in Pakistan today. And India (& Indian Muslims) still suffers from the presence of Dar Uloom Deoband today. There are many breeding grounds for Islamic extremism/militancy as well, not just in Pakistan, but many in India, & elsewhere as well.

Darul Uloom Deoband: The Indian Source of the Taliban

Anyways, it is foolhardy to blame any one particular "group" for this mess, but this problem of Islamic extremism has existed long before Pakistan's creation, far far from Pakistan. Pakistan is not the creator/facilitator, Pakistan is the victim of Islamic militancy, just as most nations in the world today are.

Your post is all the place, you are trying to join dots where there can be no joining, full of unnecessary generalizations & futile assumptions.

 

[SQ8]

]I suggest you do a little bit of background reading on where the extremism came from, if you think its creator is Pakistan. [/B]Pre-1947, minorities in Pakistan lived peacefully under the banner of the majority Barelvi influence. It was the Deobandis from India that infiltrated Pakistan post-1947 made things the way they are in Pakistan today. And India (& Indian Muslims) still suffers from the presence of Dar Uloom Deoband today.

Darul Uloom Deoband: The Indian Source of the Taliban

Anyways, it is foolhardy to blame any one particular "group" for this mess, but this problem of Islamic extremism has existed long before Pakistan's creation, far far from Pakistan. Pakistan is not the creator/facilitator, Pakistan is the victim of Islamic militancy today, just as most nations in the world today are.

I suggest you read my post before asking me to go do some research.
at no point I have stated what you say I have

extremism existed in Islam(and other religions..the dark ages in europe??) a few hundred years after its inception, and time and again held power and lost it.

Deoband was part of united India.. not "India that is Bharat".
whosoever chose India and chose Pakistan then took on the identity as it was.
These deobandi's were till partition taken as part of the Islamic nation under the "two-nation" theory.

So it is correct to state that today's deoband is not deoband at all.. Deoband gained independence in 1947 and moved to Pakistan.what remains is not of those deobandis that were.
that deobandis that were came out there and started to spread hate and extremism in the very nation they termed as "paleedistan"..
Yet.. it was the Pakistani establishment and feudals(with immense help from the House of Saud) that choose to nurture such elements for their own use..
and move that has now backfired.