Pak plans to seek USD 15 bn in new loans to pay external public debt

[CrazyZ]

Depends on details. If these new loans are low interest and used to payoff earlier higher interest loans then it may not be bad move. Ultimately its best to have as much debt as possible in PKR.

 

[volatile]

Regarding your 2nd point. Do you have a source for 2% and 5% claim? Now the real problem with plmn government was import based unsustainable growth policy, this destroyed the fundamentals of our economy. Our imports grew at unhealthy rates and exports actually decreased yoy, couple this with subsidized dollar rate. A disaster in the making. We ran huge foreign account deficit, there is no way to bridge the gap except foreign loans.

2ndly most people don't understand that the outflow of dollars is not just imports, but the shady exorbant long term return on investment deals plmn signed in their tenure. IPPs, gas terminal etc. These foreign companies shift their profits in dollars abroad.

I welcome your input/ constructive criticism to my post.

Kindly dont destroy the economics by saying such things . Our import started to grow with difference from 2001 it was Shaukat Aziz model which provides 2 things ,one GDP to debt reduction and stimulus growth ,

However this exponential growth has lead to serious dis balance of infrastructure vs demand IPP is one example .To added insult to injury we were fighting WOT with no or little electricity .

do us a favour and watch this to understand the destruction of dar!

You tube videos are your source then i will step back . Try to learn from academic references and make your mind accordingly

 

[Path-Finder]

We are in this mess bcas we are politically unstable where CJ ,Establishment just for the sake of teaching lesson has made blunder e.g the Saqib Nisar famous judicial activism , Dharna 2014 staging , Faizabad dharna .and above all lack of understanding by PTI .The rupee was devalued to push exports which till date has done nothing adding 3 Trillion Rupees in debt financing .FOr Mess you need to look into GDP size and spending

https://twitter.com/x/status/1227389749188583424

You tube videos are your source then i will step back . Try to learn from academic references and make your mind accordingly

a great way to shun and dodge it. The guy has done his research! Clearly you will not see anywrong doing by your mian and that is fine by you! not us sadly.

 

[volatile]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1227389749188583424

We were in upgradation phase and this is what we imported

https://www.dawn.com/news/1448985
China to provide 'multiple forms of bailout packages' to Pakistan: official

1. 
   
   
   • Mineral fuels including oil: US$17.1 billion (28.4% of total imports)
   • Machinery including computers: $6.3 billion (10.4%)
   • Electrical machinery, equipment: $4.3 billion (7.2%)
   • Iron, steel: $3.7 billion (6.1%)
   • Organic chemicals: $2.8 billion (4.6%)
   • Vehicles: $2.6 billion (4.3%)
   • Plastics, plastic articles: $2.5 billion (4.1%)
   • Animal/vegetable fats, oils, waxes: $2.1 billion (3.5%)
   • Oil seeds: $1.5 billion (2.4%)
   • Cotton: $1.3 billion (2.1%)

http://www.worldstopexports.com/pakistans-top-10-imports/

Also the export gap remains the same after harshest steps taken from 2018 onward as simply the export oriented industry requires reforms and infrastructure which we lack for past 70 years since we spend on non development projects which adds no value

 

[Patriot forever]

another thing, how many billion did dar spend to keep the rupee artificially floating and false rate?

As far as I know around dollars 7 billion, mifta Ismail tried to correct this by bring it to 120 but it never stabilized and we were still subsidizing dollar. The 7 billion is one part of it, the major impact is felt in the local economic ecosystem. Our local industries were destroyed because they can not compete against the imported cheaper goods domestically as well as our export industries were out of business internationally because of artificial dollar. This lead to a cascade of events resulting in our exports declining and imports expanding. Dollar rate can be regulated artificially by pumping dollars its reversible but the local industrial damage will take at least a decade to recover. This stunted our local industry.

 

[Jungibaaz]

People criticising this approach and jumping to ‘ye bikk gayi hai gormint’ conclusions need to re-evaluate.

You need to understand that as I have said before, IK’s government has no choice. With debt maturing it means outflows of forex, reserves that themselves were created by borrowings in the first place. The additional debt is troublesome, but in the short term it’s hard to reduce this without taking some very tough and oppressive measures. Long term if they fail to make meaningful progress to boosting exports and rebalancing economy, then we can judge them on possible failure.

 

[volatile]

a great way to shun and dodge it. The guy has done his research! Clearly you will not see anywrong doing by your mian and that is fine by you! not us sadly.

I dont dodge stuff i avoid word vs word ,if you have data to back up we can continue rather than your word against mine or your video against mine the mature men discuss and solve based on facts not on emotions

 

[ColonelSanders]

@dbc pls counter this argument, im not trolling or off topic or breaking any other rule. this is very much to the point. why a negative rating when there is no offence here? why dont we have debate on this topic?

Last time i i checked, indians are the last people we need advice from...

For your argument, check Debt to GDP ratio for top 10 countries and compare that to Pakistan. Then come back and tell me how much credibility those countries have lost. Just a hint for you, you and your country mates were "worshipping" the president of one of the most leveraged country in the world. Now get lost.

 

[bananarepublic]

People criticising this approach and jumping to ‘ye bikk gayi hai gormint’ conclusions need to re-evaluate.

You need to understand that as I have said before, IK’s government has no choice. With debt maturing it means outflows of forex, reserves that themselves were created by borrowings in the first place. The additional debt is troublesome, but in the short term it’s hard to reduce this without taking some very tough and oppressive measures. Long term if they fail to make meaningful progress to boosting exports and rebalancing economy, then we can judge them on possible failure.

There is a fine difference between between incompetence and having no choice.
His cabinet is filled with looters and you may justify it by saying he had no choice.
But the thing is , the people voted for him so that those looters dont come to power. The first 2 years the people have patiently waited, we will see what happens

 

[ColonelSanders]

To whom? Like I said...all u have been saying are one liners...while u have no idea about the ground realities bcuz u haven't lived there.

Ask the ppl here who live in Pakistan. How they pay an arm and a leg in electricity bills. If it's better now(I'm not sure how much it has improved over the years)...then surely they can recount to u their horror stories from the time of PPP(not too long ago). There were extended blackouts...due to power shortages...and yet ppl were still being billed for electricity that they weren't even being provided.

U must be talking about the elites(the same ppl who have and abuse power) who have the audacity to not pay electric bills...and then have enough clout to get away with it too.

Now since the above is cleared...could u explain to me how the average Pakistani is living beyond his means by borrowing?

Your argument is plain stupid.
If you didn't have corrupt politicians, you wouldn't be going to IMF and "Zionists" to ask for money in the first place.
Lets assume you are right and PTI government goes. Who is going to fix this situation? Who will you vote for? Nawaz Sharif? Zardari? Pakistan is in this situation because of these corrupt haramkhors.

 

[Patriot forever]

People criticising this approach and jumping to ‘ye bikk gayi hai gormint’ conclusions need to re-evaluate.

You need to understand that as I have said before, IK’s government has no choice. With debt maturing it means outflows of forex, reserves that themselves were created by borrowings in the first place. The additional debt is troublesome, but in the short term it’s hard to reduce this without taking some very tough and oppressive measures. Long term if they fail to make meaningful progress to boosting exports and rebalancing economy, then we can judge them on possible failure.

Fully endorse your view point. The term 'playing to the designated audience' comes to mind. Plmn was playing to its local audience taking advantage of their lack of understanding and knowledge, by using catchy words as dollar rate and import based GDP growth, just like Indian media plays to its local audience with stories like terrorist locusts from Pakistan, while we sit here and laugh at Indian media for their claims likewise foreign economists and local people who understand economy can see right through the destruction of fundamentals of our economy.

Your argument is plain stupid.
If you didn't have corrupt politicians, you wouldn't be going to IMF and "Zionists" to ask for money in the first place.
Lets assume you are right and PTI government goes. Who is going to fix this situation? Who will you vote for? Nawaz Sharif? Zardari? Pakistan is in this situation because of these corrupt haramkhors.

Bro I understand your viewpoit. To my understanding the damage to the basics of our economy is severe and it will take at least 5-10 years to correct these fundamentals. Instead of picking politicians pick their actions. The road to recovery has some basic points, 1) Reduction in foreign account deficit by reducing imports which is painful and will hurt our local economy in the short term, expanding exports takes a lot of time. 2) Maintaining dollar at market rate but not too loose to create volatility in local market 3) Selects long term or short term investment in projects regards to their productivity dams etc instead of unsustainable high rate investments e.g. metro trains. If anyone follows these stems he is trying to correct the economy and is in the right direction.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Your argument is plain stupid.
If you didn't have corrupt politicians, you wouldn't be going to IMF and "Zionists" to ask for money in the first place.
Lets assume you are right and PTI government goes. Who is going to fix this situation? Who will you vote for? Nawaz Sharif? Zardari? Pakistan is in this situation because of these corrupt haramkhors.

Did u mean to quote me? If that wasn't a mistake...did u read the conversation I was having with him?

 

[Path-Finder]

I dont dodge stuff i avoid word vs word ,if you have data to back up we can continue rather than your word against mine or your video against mine the mature men discuss and solve based on facts not on emotions

• pmnl borrowed 24 billion in 5 years,
• PTI has borrowed 13.5 billion in first year.
• 28 Billion is the debt that MUST BE RETURNED IN ~3YEARS.
• of the 28 billion 23 Billion is actual money and 4.5 Billion is interest!
• 2020-2021 ~10 BILLION MUST BE RETURNED!!
• https://twitter.com/x/status/1216241297914318848
• 2021-22 ~9 BILLION MUST BE RETURNED.
• 2022-23 ~8 BILLION MUST BE RETURNED.
• 

what are your views about mortgaging Pakistan's infrastructure for euro bonds? Then floated the bonds in the market and purchased them by using frontmen and jacked the interest rates too? In 2013 dar on 500 Million dollars worth of eurobonds decided to give 450 million dollars in interest! Investigation showed to purchase these bonds 75 Million dollars went from Pakistan! When the current gov came to power it had to pay a billion dollars on the 5 year term of the bonds otherwise the country would have defaulted.

source;

Nothing new as dar is known to fudge numbers and its not the first time it has done it either!

 

[volatile]

Fully endorse your view point. The term 'playing to the designated audience' comes to mind. Plmn was playing to its local audience taking advantage of their lack of understanding and knowledge, by using catchy words as dollar rate and import based GDP growth, just like Indian media plays to its local audience with stories like terrorist locusts from Pakistan, while we sit here and laugh at Indian media for their claims likewise foreign economists and local people who understand economy can see right through the destruction of fundamentals of our economy.

Again you have no idea of economics ,we are Import driven country not dictated by PML N but from Musharaf Era(why we are import driven counrtry as we failed to create infrastructure critical for establishing industries like roads ,man power ,electricity) . Our whole CPI and worth of country is linked with Dollar by the way Dollar it self is backed by nothing other then crude ,Who dictates it is US as they also have lot of trade imbalance . Each country is sovereign to choose his currency and payment mode ,e.g your lovely neighbour India do deals in Irania Rayal ,Saudi Rayal ,Ruble and all intelligent countries do so

 

[Path-Finder]

We were in upgradation phase and this is what we imported

https://www.dawn.com/news/1448985
China to provide 'multiple forms of bailout packages' to Pakistan: official

1. 
   
   
   • Mineral fuels including oil: US$17.1 billion (28.4% of total imports)
   • Machinery including computers: $6.3 billion (10.4%)
   • Electrical machinery, equipment: $4.3 billion (7.2%)
   • Iron, steel: $3.7 billion (6.1%)
   • Organic chemicals: $2.8 billion (4.6%)
   • Vehicles: $2.6 billion (4.3%)
   • Plastics, plastic articles: $2.5 billion (4.1%)
   • Animal/vegetable fats, oils, waxes: $2.1 billion (3.5%)
   • Oil seeds: $1.5 billion (2.4%)
   • Cotton: $1.3 billion (2.1%)

http://www.worldstopexports.com/pakistans-top-10-imports/

Also the export gap remains the same after harshest steps taken from 2018 onward as simply the export oriented industry requires reforms and infrastructure which we lack for past 70 years since we spend on non development projects which adds no value

?? what has this got to do with miftah admitting they spent 8 billion falsely floating the rupee! one of many other valid points here,

https://twitter.com/x/status/1227389749188583424