Pak may never try another Kargil, but it could get worse

[Markus]

Indian logic:


Pakistanis were entrenched in higher dug out posts and had the advantage of height.


But IA still killed more of them, then the casualties they received.



Really?


The first two Indian raiding parties were completely annihilated with hundreds of men left KIA, or wounded.

Most neutral sources were laughing at the figures the Indian media was putting out.

Indians were claiming men to be killed that were still alive.



The evil Indian propaganda machine took life from the Kargil affair, and restlessly churns out Anti-Pakistani articles on a daily basis since then.

Many responsible members of media were even banned from covering the front.

Why dont you ****** first read some material before bloating out ?

How many times do I repeat the same thing ?

When Kargil happened, it was winter at its peak and thats the ******* reason why Indian army withdrew from bunkers (like every season). PA also withdraws to prevent soldier deaths.

Musharraf knew winter is the only time when Indians can be caught off-guarded in Kashmir. And hence Nprthern Light Infantry was sent in.

3000 soldiers and Pak terrorists died in the Kargil episode and majority of them were lost to the harsh winter as compared to Indian bullets.

Pak troops were sitting on top, Indians were down. IA was in a very bad position and lost 550 troops and most of them went to enemy bullets.

 

[INDIC]

Near Tiger Hill, Point 5353 still Pak-occupied - Indian Express

4000 soldiers sacrificed for 1 peak when Pakistani troops infiltrated into 140 peaks. Anyway your countrymen was claiming Tiger Hill is point 5353 and also point 5353 had never been Indian controlled.

I am getting sick and tired of ignorant idiots citing the first memorable phrase that comes to their minds

It seems this forum is flooded with internet Popats.

 

[Executioner]

Keep posting for now, be aware don't blow yourself, will back watching Munich

 

[GoodBoy]

When outsider badmouthing your country and your army, your blod boils sire. Anyways, i will try to remail calm.

Internet hindus are being owned big time. There Army was faked the deaths of Pakistani soldiers shows their professionalism.

Yeah yeah... professionalism of Pak Army:-

- Surrendering in masses, about 100,000 surrendered ie 1/3 of their Army to mere 25,000 Indian Army but yet claiming to be shuppa duppa martial race which fights till death.
- Refusing and Disowning dead bodies of their own men who fought for their country.
- Putting the names of the dead soldiers on a website after a decade of denial in Kargil.
- Hiding under Mujahiddin cover and thus officially proving to be paid Mercenaries.
- Beating up a dead body and breaking it's bones because a dead body can't do anything.
- Reporting 400 deaths while they lost 4,000 in reality.
- Killing million+ muslim Bangladeshis.
- Supporting terrorism by proxy wars since they lack guts taking on any Professional Army like Indian Army.
- Hiding and protecting International Terrorist like OBL in their area.
- Taking money/khairaat from USA and killing their own people.


A true Professional Army...

 

[Dark Warrior]

Near Tiger Hill, Point 5353 still Pak-occupied - Indian Express

Who cares about a peak?

While officers say that Point 5353 is surrounded by three Indian posts, including Point 5240 and any action from there would be neutralised

We will annihilate all PA soldiers on it even before they can move a finger if war breaks out.

Moving on:

This fighter delivers its weapons with pinpoint accuracy. In addition to carrying free-fall bombs, it also fires the laser-guided bomb with deadly effects. In fact, it was this weapon that caused considerable devastation to Pakistani bunkers on the ridges at Tiger Hill and Muntho Dhalo. In the Mirage attack on Muntho Dhalo, Pakistani troops suffered 180 casualties

 

[Bratva]

Yeah yeah... professionalism of Pak Army:-

- Surrendering in masses, about 100,000 surrendered ie 1/3 of their Army to mere 25,000 Indian Army but yet claiming to be shuppa duppa martial race which fights till death.
- Refusing and Disowning dead bodies of their own men who fought for their country.
- Putting the names of the dead soldiers on a website after a decade of denial in Kargil.
- Hiding under Mujahiddin cover and thus officially proving to be paid Mercenaries.
- Beating up a dead body and breaking it's bones because a dead body can't do anything.
- Reporting 400 deaths while they lost 4,000 in reality.
- Killing million+ muslim Bangladeshis.
- Supporting terrorism by proxy wars since they lack guts taking on any Professional Army like Indian Army.
- Hiding and protecting International Terrorist like OBL in their area.
- Taking money/khairaat from USA and killing their own people.


A true Professional Army...

Indian Army Admits Faking Encounters In Siachen Glacier

The purpose behind all this was to paint the Army officers with false glory that would fetch them coveted gallantry awards.


Muhahahahaha Indian Army is so so desperate.... No wonder Desperation shown by you and your kind is hilarious

 

[INDIC]

So Musharraf begged NS to go to the United States to save his army, and in return carries out a coup d'etat against him?

That doesn't even make sense.

NS was looked at as traitor to the generals and within the army ranks. Not every general can curry the favor of his ranks to overthrow the government.

Because civilian government has always been a scapegoat for establishment in Pakistan.

 

[GoodBoy]

4000 Pakistani Deaths could only be achieved through FAKE ENCOUNTERS..... Shows how much your army was desperate....

Your OWN Prime Minister aka Ganja Nawaz Badmaash accepted that you lost 4000 soldiers.

Keep in DENIAL MODE so that we can laugh and laugh and laugh

 

[RazPaK]

Why dont you ****** first read some material before bloating out ?

How many times do I repeat the same thing ?

When Kargil happened, it was winter at its peak and thats the ******* reason why Indian army withdrew from bunkers (like every season). PA also withdraws to prevent soldier deaths.

Musharraf knew winter is the only time when Indians can be caught off-guarded in Kashmir. And hence Nprthern Light Infantry was sent in.

3000 soldiers and Pak terrorists died in the Kargil episode and majority of them were lost to the harsh winter as compared to Indian bullets.

Pak troops were sitting on top, Indians were down. IA was in a very bad position and lost 550 troops and most of them went to enemy bullets.

Your media and government kept continuing to switch around the figures when it suited them.


Look your own army men had been exposing your government's lies.

A Fake War in the Himalayas?

by Ranjit Devraj
NEW DELHI (IPS) - This week's stunning confessions by two Indian soldiers that they helped stage fake encounters with Pakistani troops on Siachen, often called the world's highest, coldest and costliest battlefield, has renewed calls for demilitarizing the Himalayan glacier.

On Monday, rifleman Shyam Bahadur Thapa told a military court that he not only demolished a fake "enemy-held" objective with a rocket launcher in August 2003 but also acted the part of a Pakistani soldier killed in the action as video cameras whirred away.

Thapa said he did this at the behest of a company commander, Maj. Surinder Singh. "He asked me to remove my jacket and cap and lie there (near the demolished objective)."

Thapa is one of four soldiers who have testified before a court of inquiry to say that they had been forced by their officers, including a colonel and two majors, to participate in fake military encounters on Siachen in August and September 2003.

"Obviously this scandal involves the top brass, perhaps even generals – there is no use victimizing middle-ranking officers and ordinary soldiers," a well-known writer on military affairs, N. Kunju, told IPS in an interview.

Kunju, a former army man himself, is among analysts who believe that the whole Siachen conflict, now running into its 20th year, is actually a huge fraud being played on the Indian people by successive governments and one mirrored by the generals in military-dominated Pakistan.

India spends a million U.S. dollars a day air-maintaining troops on Siachen, a desolate glacier in disputed Kashmir that falls on the tri-junction between India, Pakistan and China and overlooks the Karakorum highway.

The origins of the conflict lie in the drawing up of the Line of Control or ceasefire line in 1949, following a brief but inconclusive war between India and Pakistan over what was until then the independent princely state of Jammu and Kashmir.

The South Asian neighbors have effectively carved up Kashmir, the focus of much of their decades-long animosity. Pakistan controls the Northern Areas and what it calls "Azad (free) Kashmir" and India retains the remaining two-thirds of the territory, which include Jammu, Ladakh and the Srinagar valley.

In 1949, no one thought of Siachen because of its sheer remoteness and inaccessibility. But in a pre-emptive move in 1984, the Indian army airlifted troops onto the glacier in a bid to gain the commanding heights it affords at around 22,000 feet.

There is reason to believe that Pakistan's 1999 action crossing the Line of Control and seizure of the heights of Kargil, further down on the Line of Control in Kashmir, was carried out in retaliation for Siachen, which it values for the strategic link to Islamabad's "all-weather" ally, China.

According to Brahma Chellaney, professor of security studies at the Centre for Policy Research, a well-known think tank, the Indian army's withdrawal from Siachen could "facilitate Pakistani troops joining up with Chinese troops at the Karakorum Pass."

Such a situation is not unthinkable since China occupies the Aksai Chin region of Kashmir and also holds territory ceded to it by Pakistan.

A joint study carried out by the Pakistani scholar Samina Ahmed and Varun Sahni, who teaches international relations at the Jawaharalal Nehru University in New Delhi, acknowledges that control over Siachen would "support India's defense of Ladakh, Jammu and Kashmir against Pakistani and/or Chinese threats."

According to Ahmed and Sahni, Pakistan's objective is to "drive the cost of occupation high enough to force India to make concessions in any future settlement on Siachen."

The soldiers' confessions this week will only worsen public perceptions of what the real costs are of maintaining Siachen, not only to the exchequer but also in human terms, said Kunju.

Indeed, the potential for the whole conflict over Kashmir to siphon away money and resources that could have better gone into development, besides causing avoidable human tragedies, is currently under discussion in India's Parliament under a new Congress Party-led government.

The Congress Party, while it was in the opposition, was always been critical of the way India's relations with Pakistan were handled by the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP)-led government.

The BJP-led government lost the April and May elections after six years of rule, a period that saw peace overtures alternating with the undeclared conflict in Kargil in 1999 with Pakistan, and the costly mobilization of close to a million troops for a full-scale war in 2002.

Soon after the Kargil war, George Fernandes, who held the defense portfolio in the BJP government, was indicted by the Controller of Audits and Accounts for the importation of aluminum caskets at $2,500 apiece to carry back the bodies of dead soldiers.

This controversy led to the opposition accusing politicians of lining their pockets from the conflict.

A Fake War in the Himalayas? - by Ranjit Devraj

 

[bronxbull]

Haan Razpak duniya ko itihaas sikhayega, pata itna shaana aadmi internet waqt kyon kharaab karta.

 

[Hello_10]

double post

 

[karan.1970]

4000 Pakistani Deaths could only be achieved through FAKE ENCOUNTERS..... Shows how much your army was desperate....

Looks like Guja Nawaz Sharif got an honorary post of Indian Army's spokesman

The Hindu : Over 4,000 soldiers killed in Kargil: Sharif

 

[Backbencher]

How could an economy that is not able to provide salaries to its employes , even dream of standing against worlds 3 largest economy
Therefore no Kargil this time , only Lahore

 

[Hello_10]

Continuing turmoil in Gilgit-Baltistan

Gurmeet Kanwal

The people are demanding genuine democratic rule and the right to govern themselves.

Reports of a major Chinese presence in the Gilgit-Baltistan area have been pouring in. While Selig Harrison of the New York Times put the figure at 11,000, the Indian Army chief said recently that about 4,000 Chinese workers, many of them PLA soldiers, are engaged in construction and mining activities in the Northern Areas. This unprecedented Chinese presence is being deeply resented by the local people.

The Gilgit Agency and Baltistan in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (***), that now comprise the Northern Areas, were part of Jammu and Kashmir (J&K) at the time of partition. The woes of the people of the Northern Areas began on November 4, 1947, soon after J&K acceded to India in terms of the Independence of India Act. A young British major who was commanding the Gilgit Scouts overstepped his authority and illegally declared the accession of the Northern Areas to Pakistan. It shall remain one of the quirks of history that a Major of the British Raj could violate good order and military discipline and seal the fate of the people of an area almost as large as England.

Civil administration
Since then, the people of the Northern Areas have been denied all fundamental and political rights by Pakistan just like the Kashmiris in the rest of ***. They had for long been governed with an iron hand by a federal minister for Kashmir affairs and Northern Areas nominated from Islamabad and supported by the Pakistan army. Now, while the governor is still appointed by the president of Pakistan, there is a Legislative Assembly with 24 members.

The Assembly elects a chief minister. The judiciary still exists only in name and civil administration is virtually non-existent. The result has been that almost no development has taken place and the people live poverty stricken lives without even a semblance of health care and with only primitive educational facilities based primarily on madrasas run by Islamist fundamentalists.

These simple and hardy people have never reconciled themselves to their second-class status and have for long resented the tyrannical attitude of the Pakistan government. Consequently, there have been frequent riots and uprisings. The most violent political outbursts took place in 1971, 1988 and 1997.

In fact, it was General Pervez Musharraf, then a brigadier commanding the Special Service Group (SSG) commandos, who had been handpicked to put down a Shia uprising in Gilgit in 1988. He let loose Wahabi Pakhtoon tribesmen from the North-West Frontier Province (NWFP) on the hapless protestors. These tribesmen invaded Gilgit and went on a deliberately unchecked rampage. They lynched and burnt people to death, indulged in loot, rape and arson, ransacked houses and destroyed standing crops and left the area smoldering for years.

The Pakistan army used the people of the Northern Areas as cannon fodder during the 1999 conflict with India. It refused to acknowledge the contribution of the Northern Light Infantry (NLI) battalions to Operation Badr. Of the 772 Pakistani soldiers, including 69 officers and 76 SSG personnel, who laid down their lives for a militarily futile venture, almost 80 per cent belonged to NLI battalions. Of these, over 200 were buried with military honours by the Indian army in graves at heights ranging from 15,000 to 17,000 ft because the Pakistan army had refused to take their bodies back. The people of the Northern Areas were extremely agitated by these developments.

The simmering discontent of the last 60 years and deep resentment against being treated as second-class citizens has led to a widespread demand for the state of Balawaristan. The people are demanding genuine democratic rule and the right to govern themselves. A large number of influential leaders of the Northern Areas have buried their political differences and joined hands to form the Balawaristan National Front (BNF), with its head office at Majini Mohalla, Gilgit.

Though some sops are now being offered to them, the people of the Northern Areas are completely disenchanted. Their alienation from the Pakistan mainstream is too deep to be ever reconciled and Balawaristan is quite obviously an idea they will pursue vigorously.

Continuing turmoil in Gilgit-Baltistan
When 772 Pakistani soldiers died the number bust be around 3,000 for the Mujahideen as the ratio of Soldier:Mujahid of Pakistan in Kargil was 1:4

this is the most serious issue in regard of Kashmir. we are getting news that Pakistan may lease Gilgit-Baltistan to China soon. I think, India would also put itself in this bet. I guess a good price of it would be $60bn, for over next 10 years, which will first make Pakistan free of debt and at the same time India may save upto $6bn per year, out of its total $40bn defense expenditure, interesting? open ????
at least, this deal may bring the benefit of getting rid of whole foreign debt for pakistan and at the same time, helping India in getting rid of any future problem from this regard also?

but I would say that bet for GB can well rise to even $100bn, its on the Pakistan side to open mouth before leasing it to China

According to a report published by an Urdu-language newspaper, Pakistan is considering a proposal to lease the strategic region of Gilgit Baltistan to China. The Pakistani move is aimed at fortifying its strategic relations with China amid the irreparable rupture in U.S.-Pakistan relations over the past year. Gilgit Baltistan, previously known as the Northern Areas, shares the international border with China.

Like Pakistani - occupied Kashmir, Gilgit Baltistan – which had been part of the princely state of Jammu & Kashmir during the British rule – is not formally part of Pakistan and is not under the jurisdiction of Pakistani constitution. There are no representatives from Gilgit Baltistan in the Pakistani parliament or federal government institutions.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...t-baltistan-china-50-years.html#ixzz22OjmRBhc

 

[Markus]

Your media and government kept continuing to switch around the figures when it suited them.


Look your own army men had been exposing your government's lies.



A Fake War in the Himalayas? - by Ranjit Devraj

I was talking about kargil in my post.

As for the Fake encounters, few cases have been reported, used to happen earlier, not now.