Pak investigator wants country to admit mistakes about Mumbai attacks

[third eye]

Terrorists should be terrorized by state security forces. No new terrorist should be created to terrorize as Parrikar likes to do. Or else who knows the newly created terrorists might turn out to be new LTTE and kill your own PM.

Or the Talibs / TTP

 

[Areesh]

Pretty rich, coming from the people who invented the term "non state actors".

Pretty rich coming from someone whose chai wala PM goes to BD to talk proudly about his state's involvement to support militancy and terror in East Pakistan.

Tell your army to face and fight the Indian army if they want Kashmir, rather than sending "non state actors" and "lashkars" and "mujahids". Tell them to wear their uniform and face their enemy, rather than coming in mufti with non state actors, like in Kargil.

My military is doing what they should do. Despite all claims by 56 inch breast PM and his cabinet about muh torr jawab, our army is effectively and aggressively making Indian army and BSF to pay for their cowardly attacks on our civilians. They have practically busted the 56 inches chest and are professionally targeting Indian soldiers in response to their cowardly attacks on our civilians. Yeah some might Kashmiri mukti bahini might be crossing LOC to attack Indian soldiers. They might not be stopping them in those dense forests of Kashmir. Well that is not their duty. And I don't expect them to stop them. Why should we? If my army is killing indian soldiers in response to ceasefire violations then that is enough for me.

BTW, do I need to remind you how many Pakistani PMs have been killed by your own "strategic assets"? Benazir Bhutto was killed quite recently, compared to Rajiv Gandhi. But let's overlook that, shall we?

No you don't need to remind me since obviously you have more PM dying in this manner.

PS: Just to share a fact with you. TTP is/ was not our strategic asset anytime in the past or history. Can't say the same about you though.

 

[Rafael]

Let a certain Indian 'muslim' be left alone here, they would get to know the true worth of Pakistan when their countrymen turn against them for being not 'enoug' Indians - which I am afraid is not too far away.

 

[Areesh]

Or the Talibs / TTP

True. But unlike in your case of LTTE we didn't create TTP. That's why we kill them whenever we find them unlike you who postpone their hanging sentence for killing your PM.

 

[ayesha.a]

Ma'am when you've got the level of animosity and mistrust between two countries as we do these things happen; after all not long ago we had one of your top politicians claiming that the ISI funds Bollywood movies while the State Apparatus was nabbing a Pakistani pigeon masquerading as our very own desi 007 !

What we have issues with is the Indian intransigence to admit that Pakistan and Pakistanis don't have a monopoly over Crazy Statements - Not by a long shot !

And an equally ostrichy behaviour was displayed by many Indians during the Samjhota Express bombings - Use the Search Button - so lets not get into that 'earlier path' !

I wasn't following the forum back when the Samjhauta express bombing happened, but that wouldn't be ostrichy behaviour by Indian members - because unlike 26/11, which was officially admitted to be done by Pakistanis, the Samjhauta bombings was first attributed to Pakistan or certain Indian muslim groups, by India's investigation agency. Indians believed that, just as I'm sure Pakistanis would have believed their agencies if they blamed India. Later it was the same Indian agencies that retracted their own earlier findings, and started going after a few Hindu groups inside India.

Since then, have you had thousands (or even a few) Indians here saying that the Samjhauta bombing was a false flag attack by ISI/Pakistanis? If so, I agree that they are being ostrichy. From what I have seen, Indian members mostly agree that the Samjhauta attack was not by Pakistanis.

 

[nair]

Let a certain Indian 'muslim' be left alone here, they would get to know the true worth of Pakistan when their countrymen turn against them - which I am afraid is not too far away.

Misplaced worries......... The highest number of muslims killed in terrorist acts is not from India.......... Allow us to worry about our countrymen,

 

[ayesha.a]

Let a certain Indian 'muslim' be left alone here, they would get to know the true worth of Pakistan when their countrymen turn against them for being not 'enoug' Indians - which I am afraid is not too far away.

As of today, muslims' biggest concern globally (and especially so in Pakistan) is being branded "not muslim enough" and killed. How many muslims/humans have died in your country for not being muslim enough or being the wrong kind of muslims? How many shias, how many ahmadis, how many Hazaras? The flags on the LeJ and SSP proudly fly in huge rallies in your cities, and murderers chant "kafir, kafir, XYZ kafir" before massacring busloads of people. Being killed for being unIndian in India is far less a possibility than being killed for not being muslim enough in Pakistan.

Spare your concern (fake as it is) for Indian muslims being branded unIndian. Worry about your own people being killed for not being muslim enough first. Learn to prioritize your concerns.

 

[Rafael]

Misplaced worries......... The highest number of muslims killed in terrorist acts is not from India.......... Allow us to worry about our countrymen,

Not worrying at all mate, I have no issues with what you do with your fellow citizens.

 

[SpArK]

This news from someone this senior is pretty damning. You chaps are left with no choice after this. He clearly proved that there was enough evidence dug by Pakistani investigators themselves that nail the accused.



Just wondering (pure guess) whether this is something that flows from the Ufa contact. Is the ground being prepared for some limited action etc....

Its from the head, talking about the teams's findings..

• So the option of him being traitor or taking money can be ruled out, since doing that will make the whole investing agency look like clowns and sell offs.

• Second option was telling this news as fabricated by putting some Indian media masala blah blahs...that failed too.

• Third option is admitting it and relating it to BD war of independence, but it doesnt hold any logical sense but still worth a try.

• Fourth and a more convenient option which is always launched by some of these online brain dead buffoons is blaming Modi, which would be the tune we will be seeing plenty in the news related to this admission.

 

[Bang Galore]

Actually this is new nothing new. It is just 2010 rewritten in this article. PPP government already said that a few non state actors might be involved in the attacks just like a few Uzbeks belonging to Islamic movement of Uzbekistan were involved in several terror attacks in Pakistan. But that doesn't mean Uzbekistan itself as a state is involved in those attacks. Abu Jandal was an Indian national and again has nothing to do with Pakistani and or Indian state. He was working on his own with a few Pakistani nationals. Just like Indian state failed to nab Abu Jandal before Mumbai attacks, same goes for Pakistan.

As for false flag, Pakistani state never called Mumbai attacks a false flag. It was just a few analysts or journalists and they definitely don't represent the official position of Pakistani state.

Your claim that we have no excuse left is laughable. Our main excuse was that ISI or any other state institution was not involved in these attacks and nothing has changed to disrepute or reject that. Pakistani state is definitely not involved in these attacks.

Laugh away. A former NSA was sacked just because he said Kasab was Pakistani. This is coming from the Head of the FIA which investigated this case. Pretty damning.

When you know very little, best not to make it evident. Sayed Zabiuddin Ansari a.k.a Abu Jundal lived in Pakistan & participated in the attack from Pakistani soil. In that Karachi control room that is mentioned. He then went to KSA on a Pakistani passport where he was arrested because of Indian & American pressure. Your state panicked when he was arrested & told the Saudis that he was a Pakistani citizen & should not be extradited to India. They kept that up for 2 months & only when Saudis ignored them & extradited Abu Jundal to India did your government sing a different tune. why protect him if your state was not involved?

No one expects Pakistanis to admit to state involvement. Blaming the LeT is closest anyone will go. That has been done. It means that no longer will all the sorry excuses trotted out work anymore. Your people were involved in the 26/11 attack, it is incumbent on you to deal with such people. Your excuses of no involvement while using the news media to attempt to create a fiction of a "false flag" is now history.

Your excuses of the Uzbeks don't wash, They didn't train in that country & then come to attack yours. If they did, that country would be equally responsible. You do understand that was the principle used by the U.S. & sanctioned by the UN in the case of war against Afghanistan?

This also puts an end to all the rubbish about Pakistan going to UN with claims against India. After this admission, you would be first expected to prove your own credibility before accusing others.

 

[Rafael]

As of today, muslims' biggest concern globally (and especially so in Pakistan) is being branded "not muslim enough" and killed. How many muslims/humans have died in your country for not being muslim enough or being the wrong kind of muslims? How many shias, how many ahmadis, how many Hazaras? The flags on the LeJ and SSP proudly fly in huge rallies in your cities, and murderers chant "kafir, kafir, XYZ kafir" before massacring busloads of people. Being killed for being unIndian in India is far less a possibility than being killed for not being muslim enough in Pakistan.

Spare your concern (fake as it is) for Indian muslims being branded unIndian. Worry about your own people being killed for not being muslim enough first. Learn to prioritize your concerns.

My people have had enough of that madness which was supported to an extent by your agencies. Thankfully we are out of that league. You Mam now should worry about yourself. Being surrounded by a hostile hindu population which is in doubts over your patriotism since day 1 should atleast give you lot sleepless nights!

 

[nair]

Not worrying at all mate, I have no issues with what you do with your fellow citizens.

Then it is fine......

 

[Armstrong]

I wasn't following the forum back when the Samjhauta express bombing happened, but that wouldn't be ostrichy behaviour by Indian members - because unlike 26/11, which was officially admitted to be done by Pakistanis, the Samjhauta bombings was first attributed to Pakistan or certain Indian muslim groups, by India's investigation agency. Indians believed that, just as I'm sure Pakistanis would have believed their agencies if they blamed India. Later it was the same Indian agencies that retracted their own earlier findings, and started going after a few Hindu groups inside India.

Since then, have you had thousands (or even a few) Indians here saying that the Samjhauta bombing was a false flag attack by ISI/Pakistanis? If so, I agree that they are being ostrichy. From what I have seen, Indian members mostly agree that the Samjhauta attack was not by Pakistanis.

It was ostrichy behaviour because some of the more jingoistic Indians (suicide trolls as some MODS dubbed them to be owing to their vitriol degenerating into conspiracy theories giving way to outright abuses) obviously didn't get the memo about Indian agencies earlier retracting.

But that was not the point; the point was that when you've got the level of mistrust between our two countries that we do and some confusing statements coming out of each other like Satish Verma's statements on 26/11 being a false flag operations, this ends up perpetuating this confusion further and provides fuel to an environment already ripe for conspiracy theories !

 

[SwAggeR]

Here is the original link , but if you expect them even to contrite for that then you are at fault they would rather choose to boast about it. Sick people.

Mumbai attacks trial - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

I am surprised how this article hasn't been pulled down in pakistan till now.

The writer is former DG, FIA.


THE Mumbai terror attacks were claimed by India to be its 9/11. For more than 66 hours, 10 highly trained militants played havoc in India’s commercial metropolis, spraying bullets and shedding the blood of innocent civilians and tourists in November 2008, bringing the two nuclear neighbours to the brink of an all-out war.

In Ufa, Russia on July 10, 2015, both the prime ministers of Pakistan and India were “prepared to discuss all outstanding issues,” and both the leaders “condemned terrorism in all its forms” and agreed to cooperate with each other “to eliminate this menace from South Asia”. Therefore, we in Pakistan should welcome this development wholeheartedly.

Didn’t we suffer the pain and agony of our own 9/11 on Dec 16, 2014, at the hands of the Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan and its surrogates and aren’t we as a nation determined to root out terrorism in all its forms from our soil? The answer is obviously a resounding yes and I have no doubt that the political and security leadership have resolved to eliminate the scourge of terrorism, militancy and extremism through the counterterrorism National Action Plan. The duality and distinction between good and bad Taliban, including all militants and terrorists, should stand removed from Miramshah to Muridke, from Karachi to Quetta.

Against this backdrop, the agreement between PMs Sharif and Modi in Ufa to approve the meeting of their national security advisers to “discuss all issues related to terrorism” was a welcome development. Pakistan’s concerns in respect of the botched investigation into the Samjhauta Express bombing and alleged covert support to the Baloch insurgency as well as reported ‘terror financing’ both in Karachi and Fata by Indian and other foreign agencies should not only be highlighted but concrete evidence presented to put a stop to such means of non-kinetic warfare resorted to by sleuths from both sides to further their so-called national interests.

There are very knowledgeable and competent professionals with investigation and intelligence background in Pakistan who can meet the Indian security officials and talk as professionals. They too have many skeletons in their cupboards. So why fight shy? Let both India and Pakistan admit their mistakes and follies and learn to co-exist while trying to find solutions to their thorny issues through peaceful means.

Pakistan has to deal with the Mumbai mayhem, planned and launched from its soil. This requires facing the truth and admitting mistakes. The entire state security apparatus must ensure that the perpetrators and masterminds of the ghastly terror attacks are brought to justice. The case has lingered on for far too long. Dilatory tactics by the defendants, frequent change of trial judges, and assassination of the case prosecutor as well as retracting from original testimony by some key witnesses have been serious setbacks for the prosecutors. However, cognizance was taken by the Islamabad High Court which directed the trial to be concluded within two months.

The following facts are pertinent. First, Ajmal Kasab was a Pakistani national, whose place of residence and initial schooling as well as his joining a banned militant organisation was established by the investigators. Second, the Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) terrorists were imparted training near Thatta, Sindh and launched by sea from there. The training camp was identified and secured by the investigators. The casings of the explosive devices used in Mumbai were recovered from this training camp and duly matched. Third, the fishing trawler used by the terrorists for hijacking an Indian trawler in which they sailed to Mumbai, was brought back to harbour, then painted and concealed. It was recovered by the investigators and connected to the accused. Fourth, the engine of the dinghy abandoned by the terrorists near Mumbai harbour contained a patent number through which the investigators traced its import from Japan to Lahore and then to a Karachi sports shop from where an LeT-linked militant purchased it along with the dinghy. The money trail was followed and linked to the accused who was arrested. Fifth, the ops room in Karachi, from where the operation was directed, was also identified and secured by the investigators. The communications through Voice over Internet Protocol were unearthed. Sixth, the alleged commander and his deputies were identified and arrested. Seventh, a couple of foreign-based financiers and facilitators were arrested and brought to face trial.

After an exchange of multiple investigation dossiers with the Indian police authorities, the trial court was requested to give approval to obtain voice samples of the alleged commander and his deputies for comparison with the recorded voices. The court ruled that the consent of the accused should be obtained. Obviously, the suspects refused. Then a plea was submitted before the sessions court to authorise the investigators to take the voice samples despite the lack of consent. The plea was denied on account of there being no such provision in the Evidence Act or the antiterrorism law applicable at that time. The investigators then went in appeal before the High Court. That appeal, I believe, is still pending. The Fair Trial Act, 2013 caters for admissibility of such technical evidence. However, its application with retrospective effect is a moot point.

The Mumbai case is quite unique: one incident with two jurisdictions and two trials. While the Indians managed to nab Ajmal Kasab and were able to obtain his confession to close the trial, proving conspiracy in a different jurisdiction is more complex and requires a far superior quality of evidence. Therefore, the legal experts from both sides need to sit together rather than sulk and point fingers.

Indian interlocutors, engaged during the talks between the then prime ministers of India and Pakistan in Egypt in 2009, had conceded that the Pakistani investigators had done a professional job in the indictment of seven perpetrators of the attack. However, the Pakistani authorities should not forget that the FIA declared various other facilitators and operatives as fugitives in the case. The trial will not be over with the disposal of those under arrest or on bail. Other missing links need to be uncovered after the absconders’ arrest.

This case will not be over soon.

Are we as a nation prepared to muster the courage to face uncomfortable truths and combat the demons of militancy that haunt our land? That is the question!

The writer is former DG, FIA.

Published in Dawn, August 3rd, 2015

 

[guyhandz]

book mark this link for future use...