Pak-India tensions seen dominating Indian BRICS summit

[A-Team]

Pak-India tensions seen dominating Indian BRICS summit

http://www.dawn.com/news/1289952/pak-india-tensions-seen-dominating-indian-brics-summit

__________________

Interesting read:

China not Pakistan's perpetual 'jolly partner'

Where Modi and Xi may see eye to eye, at least privately, is in a shared desire for Islamabad to act against militants who, in Beijing's view, pose a threat to China's plans to build a $51.5 billion trade corridor that runs through Pakistan to the Arabian Sea.

"Contrary to the public messaging in Islamabad, China is not the perpetual jolly partner when it comes to its relations with Pakistan," said Michael Kugelman, a senior program associate at the Wilson Centre in Washington who focuses on South Asia.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Interesting read:

China not Pakistan's perpetual 'jolly partner'

Where Modi and Xi may see eye to eye, at least privately, is in a shared desire for Islamabad to act against militants who, in Beijing's view, pose a threat to China's plans to build a $51.5 billion trade corridor that runs through Pakistan to the Arabian Sea.

"Contrary to the public messaging in Islamabad, China is not the perpetual jolly partner when it comes to its relations with Pakistan," said Michael Kugelman, a senior program associate at the Wilson Centre in Washington who focuses on South Asia.

Michael Kugelman from the Wilson Centre in Washington USA said Xi and Modi share the same sentiment on this issue, therefore it is immediately the sacred truth for the Indians here?

Maybe, you know, maybe there is a chance that he is wrong? Do you think that is possible?

 

[A-Team]

Michael Kugelman from the Wilson Centre in Washington USA said Xi and Modi share the same sentiment on this issue, therefore it is immediately the sacred truth for the Indians here?

Maybe, you know, maybe there is a chance that he is wrong? Do you think that is possible?

I am not an indian but from an Afghan perspective what is important is that China uses whatever leverage it has on Pakistan that it changes her policies vis-a-vis Afghanistan [ which means stop supporting Afghan Taliban and other militant groups] and we see CPEC where China will invest massively as increase that leverage that China will carry with Pakistan.

We in Afghanistan see CPEC is a good omen for the region and we would like to be part of it and we fully support Chinese OBAR vision but you do realize that unless Pakistan changes her policies vis-a-vis militants which wreck havoc in Afghanistan this region will be distalized, Chinese border regions will be destabilized.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

I am not an indian but from an Afghan perspective what is important is that China uses whatever leverage it has on Pakistan that it changes her policies vis-a-vis Afghanistan [ which means stop supporting Afghan Taliban and other militant groups] and we see CPEC where China will invest massively as increase that leverage that China will carry with Pakistan.

We in Afghanistan see CPEC is a good omen for the region and we would like to be part of it and we fully support Chinese OBAR vision but you do realize that unless Pakistan changes her policies vis-a-vis militants which wreck havoc in Afghanistan this region will be distalized, Chinese border regions will be destabilized.

My mistake, I don't see any flags on the mobile version.

Here is the thing though, all these accusations against Pakistan are usually very light on actual evidence and proof. There is no evidence right now for example that the Pakstani government was responsible for the Uri attack, the Pathankot attack, some of the attacks in Aghanistan, etc.

In fact some of the non-state actors are (in many cases) aligned with the same groups that are themselves attacking the Pakistani state, such as the Uyghur extremists and others aligned with the PKK. Which are enemies of the Pakistani government.

So they are asking us to punish our ally without providing any proof of their complicity. That doesn't make sense from our perspective.

And yes, I'm well aware that non-state actors will rarely leave proof behind. But still there is no way to justify us punishing Pakistan for that without it. Taking things based on faith and no evidence isn't really something that modern Chinese will tend to do, which is no surprise since we are mostly Atheists as well.

 

[A-Team]

My mistake, I don't see any flags on the mobile version.

Here is the thing though, all these accusations against Pakistan are usually very light on actual evidence and proof. There is no evidence right now for example that the Pakstani government was responsible for the Uri attack, the Pathankot attack, some of the attacks in Aghanistan, etc.

In fact some of the non-state actors are (in many cases) aligned with the same groups that are themselves attacking the Pakistani state, such as the Uyghur extremists and others aligned with the PKK. Which are enemies of the Pakistani government.

So they are asking us to punish our ally without providing any proof of their complicity. That doesn't make sense from our perspective.

And yes, I'm well aware that non-state actors will rarely leave proof behind. But still there is no way to justify us punishing Pakistan for that without it. Taking things based on faith and no evidence isn't really something that modern Chinese will tend to do, which is no surprise since we are mostly Atheists as well.

Fair enough, so how do you call when Afghan Tali leader mullah mansoor is taken out by a US drone close to Quetta in Pakistan carrying Pakistani passport, is that a good enough proof?

My mistake, I don't see any flags on the mobile version.

Here is the thing though, all these accusations against Pakistan are usually very light on actual evidence and proof. There is no evidence right now for example that the Pakstani government was responsible for the Uri attack, the Pathankot attack, some of the attacks in Aghanistan, etc.

In fact some of the non-state actors are (in many cases) aligned with the same groups that are themselves attacking the Pakistani state, such as the Uyghur extremists and others aligned with the PKK. Which are enemies of the Pakistani government.

So they are asking us to punish our ally without providing any proof of their complicity. That doesn't make sense from our perspective.

And yes, I'm well aware that non-state actors will rarely leave proof behind. But still there is no way to justify us punishing Pakistan for that without it. Taking things based on faith and no evidence isn't really something that modern Chinese will tend to do, which is no surprise since we are mostly Atheists as well.

I am not too concerned with Indian complaints because India and Pakistan has a far deeper rivlary but with regards to Afghan situation and Pakistani support of Afghan Tali that is a crystal clear case

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Fair enough, so how do you call when Afghan Tali leader mullah mansoor is taken out by a US drone close to Quetta in Pakistan carrying Pakistani passport, is that a good enough proof?

There are a lot of terrorists living in the lawless border regions between Pakistan and Afghanistan, it doesn't mean either government is complicit in any attacks they may carry out.

In fact as I said, many groups like the Uyghur extremists are aligned with the PKK and others which are very much enemies of the Pakistani government. So in this fight we would rather take the side of the Pakistani government rather than terrorist groups who happen to hold Pakistani or Afghani nationality.

As for the Afghan Civil War, we will work with whichever side wins. Since we can't affect the outcome anyway.

 

[Khurram2349]

I am not an indian but from an Afghan perspective what is important is that China uses whatever leverage it has on Pakistan that it changes her policies vis-a-vis Afghanistan [ which means stop supporting Afghan Taliban and other militant groups]

If as an Afghan you think that Pakistan is supporting Afghan Taliban then please tell me who is supporting TTP in Afghanistan ? Who is protecting Mullah Fazlullah ? What are so many Indian Consulates doing on the border of Pakistan ? Are not these consulates training and breeding ground of terrorists who have entered Pakistan and responsible for killing 50,000 innocent Pakistanis including the children of Army Public School in Peshawar? . Blood of Pakistanis is hand of evil nexus of CIA / Mossad/ RAW as well as Afghan Intelligence Agency which is operating on Afghan territory and and Allah will take revenge from those who have killed these innocent Muslims . I am not blaming local Afghan people ! They are Muslim brothers and sisters of Pakistan and our history have bound us together no matter what our enemies think and say but the truth is that the enemies of Islam including USA and its Western Allies along with India and Israel are using territory and people to shed blood of Pakistanis !

As for Afghan Taliban , they are problem of Afghans , not Pakistan's but still Pakistan has been and will try its best to convince all the fighting forces within Afghanistan stay peaceful and not to kill each other . If any Afghan innocent person dies then it hurt Pakistani person in same way as if a Pakistani is being killed . But Pakistan will not allow the evil nexus of NATO / Israel/ and India to destabilize Pakistan using Afghan territory and do what ever we can to stop this.

It is a religious duty of every Afghan Muslim to make sure that their territory and people are not used to create problem for any brotherly Muslim country and also to struggle to kick the foreign evil powers out of their homeland !

Lets join hand with Pakistanis in the same way as we have done before in kicking Soviets out of our homelands and we can do it again by freeing our lands from evil powers like West , Israelis and Indians ! Insha Allah !

 

[Nilgiri]

Pakistani support of Afghan Tali that is a crystal clear case

Fact opponents like Karzai and Ghani can both agree on it strongly really says something.

Hold on and do your best! Major help is on the way.

 

[kabooter_maila]

Pak-India tensions seen dominating Indian BRICS summit

http://www.dawn.com/news/1289952/pak-india-tensions-seen-dominating-indian-brics-summit

__________________

Interesting read:

China not Pakistan's perpetual 'jolly partner'

Where Modi and Xi may see eye to eye, at least privately, is in a shared desire for Islamabad to act against militants who, in Beijing's view, pose a threat to China's plans to build a $51.5 billion trade corridor that runs through Pakistan to the Arabian Sea.

"Contrary to the public messaging in Islamabad, China is not the perpetual jolly partner when it comes to its relations with Pakistan," said Michael Kugelman, a senior program associate at the Wilson Centre in Washington who focuses on South Asia.

Let the sick-minded Indians try to 'isolate' Pakistan by exploiting the gathering of world leaders who came all the way to India for pondering on important global issues rather than applying any cream on butt-hurt Indians. First of all, there is absolutely nothing in common between, say, India and Russia or India and China - Indians are sick-minded sub-class of third world countries with criminal mind-set and pervasive poverty stricken population. Anyhow, while these idiot jokers amuse their dignitaries with their non-sense acts and talks (which no one in world gives a damn - rather people enjoy the laughing a$$ Modi), Pakistan will keep striving for higher goals of regional trade, development, highways, integration and prosperity. Pakistan has already been declared having top world rank in infrastructure development for this year. Iran and Saudi Arabia are already tempting and desiring to join the CPEC project. Afghanistan also seems getting out of Indian leash and requesting to join CPEC. Afghan ambassador said today in Islamabad "the CPEC was a great project that was equally relevant to Afghanistan like Pakistan, and anything that will be good for Pakistan will be good for the entire region." On the other hand, Pak PM Nawaz Sharif is in Baku these days for cementing trade and defense ties with brotherly country of Azerbaijan. Besides, troops from 18 countries are participating in a joint military exercise this week in Lahore. And look at this idiot Modi. He is dreaming to isolate Pakistan. What a bloody fool living in his own shell.

Let Indians burn in their own deep jealousy for Pakistan. Such nasty idiots as Indians indeed deserve a miserable life - a life that suffers depression and death every moment. We need not attack and kill these animals. To make Indians hurt, desperate, and depressed, we need to keep doing positive work of development, trade, links, integration, and prosperity. The bloody pessimist and deeply sick-minded Indians would resort to terrorism, lies, and jealousy. Let Indians get pushed in oblivion and isolation by striving for regional integration. That's the ultimate punishment that we can inflict on these useless filthy scumbags. As the Afghan ambassador in Islamabad was reported: “I think CPEC is not limited to Pakistan, it is for the entire region particularly Central Asia,” the envoy maintained. But make no mistakes. That integration is among regional countries Pak, Afghan, Iran, China, CARs, and Russia. Let Indians be happy by having SAARC (i.e. BD, Bhutan, Nepal) in their palm. Kalli kutti wassay, katoorian nal hassay (a bitch lives a pathetic lonely life while playing with its own puppies).
http://www.dawn.com/news/1289978/afghanistan-desires-role-in-cpec-says-afghan-envoy

 

[Arbiter]

I am not an indian but from an Afghan perspective what is important is that China uses whatever leverage it has on Pakistan that it changes her policies vis-a-vis Afghanistan [ which means stop supporting Afghan Taliban and other militant groups] and we see CPEC where China will invest massively as increase that leverage that China will carry with Pakistan..

ye because the afghan talibans, who controll large parts of Afghnistan and make hundreds of millions of dollars from opium trade, needs support from Pakistan.

Fair enough, so how do you call when Afghan Tali leader mullah mansoor is taken out by a US drone close to Quetta in Pakistan carrying Pakistani passport, is that a good enough proof?

Typical Afghan attitude, lets blame Pakistan and hell with the fact that Mullah Mansoor entered Pakistan via Iran. Since 1947 the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan has been porous. Peoples have traveled without any documentation. Millions of Afghans have illegally entered Pakistan due to that as well as terrorists. We are now trying to fix that, so how come Afghans object to that. It should be in your interest as well to seal that border.

 

[A-Team]

There are a lot of terrorists living in the lawless border regions between Pakistan and Afghanistan, it doesn't mean either government is complicit in any attacks they may carry out.

In fact as I said, many groups like the Uyghur extremists are aligned with the PKK and others which are very much enemies of the Pakistani government. So in this fight we would rather take the side of the Pakistani government rather than terrorist groups who happen to hold Pakistani or Afghani nationality.

As for the Afghan Civil War, we will work with whichever side wins. Since we can't affect the outcome anyway.

I am afraid your understanding of Afghanistan is not accurate and this maybe because we Afghans have not YET done a good job in explaining our case. So I can understand where your coming from.

There is no civil war in Afghanistan and I think our President elaborated this in a very concrete manner in the SCO meeting. China knows who the winner is and that is why the military assistance recently to the Afghan gov.

here is a short video, hope this clarifies the situation a bit better. The SCO leadership is present in this video

ye because the afghan talibans, who controll large parts of Afghnistan and make hundreds of millions of dollars from opium trade, needs support from Pakistan.

Typical Afghan attitude, lets blame Pakistan and hell with the fact that Mullah Mansoor entered Pakistan via Iran. Since 1947 the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan has been porous. Peoples have traveled without any documentation. Millions of Afghans have illegally entered Pakistan due to that as well as terrorists. We are now trying to fix that, so how come Afghans object to that. It should be in your interest as well to seal that border.

I like your profile picture, looks good

 

[haviZsultan]

There are a lot of terrorists living in the lawless border regions between Pakistan and Afghanistan, it doesn't mean either government is complicit in any attacks they may carry out.

In fact as I said, many groups like the Uyghur extremists are aligned with the PKK and others which are very much enemies of the Pakistani government. So in this fight we would rather take the side of the Pakistani government rather than terrorist groups who happen to hold Pakistani or Afghani nationality.

As for the Afghan Civil War, we will work with whichever side wins. Since we can't affect the outcome anyway.

I would like to add a powerful Taliban would be a problem for every neighboring country. They will provide sanctuary to TTP (The Pakistani Taliban) and possibly even Uighur and Tajik Islamic seperatists which is dangerous for China, Tajikistan and Pakistan. Therefore dealing with the Afghan taliban should not be a primary prerogative but a last resort.

I think the process though has already started on a downward slope with Hekmatyar joining the government. It gives all the wrong messages. Messages that the Taliban are welcome to join in the governance rather than being destroyed. Worse, it is an admission by the leadership that the Taliban may never be defeated and the solution is to deal peace with them.

Now we all know the Taliban are degenerative like most mullahs. They will impose strict laws banning women, lashing and amputations for stealing. It is a system none of us can live in. It remains to be seen how we will deal with a resurgent taliban. This is my assessment anyway.

 

[A-Team]

I would like to add a powerful Taliban would be a problem for every neighboring country. They will provide sanctuary to TTP (The Pakistani Taliban) and possibly even Uighur and Tajik Islamic seperatists which is dangerous for China, Tajikistan and Pakistan. Therefore dealing with the Afghan taliban should not be a primary prerogative but a last resort.

I think the process though has already started on a downward slope with Hekmatyar joining the government. It gives all the wrong messages. Messages that the Taliban are welcome to join in the governance rather than being destroyed. Worse, it is an admission by the leadership that the Taliban may never be defeated and the solution is to deal peace with them.

Now we all know the Taliban are degenerative like most mullahs. They will impose strict laws banning women, lashing and amputations for stealing. It is a system none of us can live in. It remains to be seen how we will deal with a resurgent taliban. This is my assessment anyway.

Thank you for calling spade-a-spade vis-a-vis Talis.

Barnett Rubin has been on the record several times on how Chinese diplomats have been quietly proding Pakistan in changing her polices with regards to Talis, hope it pays off because at the end of the day it will be beneficial for both Pak and Afghanistan.

Well I am at it, something that most of the Pakistanis still don't understand or maybe we Afghans are bad at communicating this but for Afghanistan India does not replace Pakistan, Pakistan is our neighbour and it will be foolish for us to be part of the India Pak rivalry. All we want for Pakistan is to treat us like sovereign state and deal with us in our own ways and not deal us keeping in mind India because Afghanistan cares for iher own interest and not india's, or anyone else's.

I think this is the place that Pakistan makes a mistake, because it puts us by default in the India camp and if I were a Pakistani I would treat Afghanistan as a sovereign state and that way your genuine concerns would be answered.

 

[Indika]

My mistake, I don't see any flags on the mobile version.

Its not flags its the content and truth that should matter. Just proved china and chinese like you will keep singing paeans about pakistan even when they are providing sanctuary to terrorists. It would be just a matter of time when that china will be also at receiving end of its own double standards just like US or pakistan is.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Its not flags its the content and truth that should matter. Just proved china and chinese like you will keep singing paeans about pakistan even when they are providing sanctuary to terrorists. It would be just a matter of time when that china will be also at receiving end of its own double standards just like US or pakistan is.

Do you know that Indira Gandhi trained LTTE terrorists on Indian soil, the modern world's first suicide bombers?

And even now the Indian Defence minister openly boasted about using terrorists as an official policy tool?

‘You have to neutralise terrorist through terrorist only,’ says Defence Minister Parrikar - Indian Express

This is realpolitik, where only national interests matter. No country is a saint here.

If India could prove that the Pakistani government was behind the Uri/Pathankot attacks then you guys wouldn't need to say anything else. But there is no proof, no evidence even.