Pak-India education compared by Pervez Hoodboy

[Laozi]

So India will eliminate Urdu from Kashmir by hook and crook.

Odd isn't it, the bhakts on this forum declare ownership of Urdu when it suits them but their mighty leader Modi regards it as a non-native language according to the above list.

This is the amateurism that brutally exposes Modi supporters and their delusions. I expect Modi supporters who previously declared ownership of Urdu as an "indian language" to suddenly fall silent now in quiet acceptance of Lord Modi's decree.

Kashmir has Kashmiri language which needs to be promoted.

Urdu is a beautiful language which has replaced Punjabi in Pakistan but in India regional languages are not dissuaded.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Kashmir has Kashmiri language which needs to be promoted.

Urdu is a beautiful language which has replaced Punjabi in Pakistan but in India regional languages are not dissuaded.

What was I just saying about Bhakts changing their hymn selection depending on what Modi says?

Anyway, thanks for checking with the people of Kashmir before taking such decisions on their behalf.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Urdu is a beautiful language which has replaced Punjabi in Pakistan

Holy cow! Someone get a load of this crap....

@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @waz

Sorry to waste your time folks but someone needs to hear what these hired goons keep parroting out every now and again.

 

[jamal18]

RSS pracharaks are jubilant but Indians face a reality check. English-medium schools, not traditional patshalas and gurukuls, modernised India and gave it global clout. While India can name its satellite ‘Aryabhatta’, Isaac Newton’s laws actually guided it into orbit. Even the BJP minister whose signature is on NEP, Prakash Javedekar, knows this. From Indian press reports I found that he, along with nine other BJP ministers, has also sent his children to study abroad.

Brown slave mentality surfaces again. And how did the Russias, Chinese, Japanese, Koreans or the European countries achieve scientic success without the great English language.

Slave, Newtons laws work in other languages as well.

 

[Shantanu_Left]

So India will eliminate Urdu from Kashmir by hook and crook.

Odd isn't it, the bhakts on this forum declare ownership of Urdu when it suits them but their mighty leader Modi regards it as a non-native language according to the above list.

This is the amateurism that brutally exposes Modi supporters and their delusions. I expect Modi supporters who previously declared ownership of Urdu as an "indian language" to suddenly fall silent now in quiet acceptance of Lord Modi's decree.

Their brains are too hardwired with hatred to process the harfs, izafats, and naazuk nature of Urdu.

That is why I consider Hindi a fake, artificial language. It's not difficult to learn (I had studied in school) and you want to drop out after you cover the basics.

MOD's - Why did I receive a thread ban last time for speaking on this very subject? I think I had raised many good points.


Back on topic, Kashmiris will continue to learn Urdu with or without the patronage of the Indian state. But some Kashmiris have become so spineless that I think they will even allow this linguistic genocide for some material benefits.

I think Indian nation has been anti-Urdu right since the country's formation in 1947. Thankfully, there are a few revivalists and traditionalists but they find themselves in a shrinking space due to anti-intellectualism.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

but in India regional languages are not dissuaded.

This was funny too. Are they "not dissuaded" because you get the sh*t kicked out of you when you try to impose Hindi in all these southern and eastern states? Could that be the reason Delhi doesn't "dissuade" the regional dialects?




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Imposing Hindi across India threatens to undermine its linguistic diversity

There have been numerous attempts by the BJP administration to override regional dialects and languages

Samanth Subramanian
September 29, 2019

Standing before a packed stadium in Houston, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi asked his audience a rhetorical question: how are things in India? Before the 50,000 Indian-Americans who gathered to greet him on his US tour last week, he answered in Hindi: “All is well” – then repeated the answer in Punjabi, Gujarati, Bengali and four other languages.

The point he was making was more significant than the message, but just in case it passed people by, Mr Modi later made it explicit. “Our various languages are an important identity of our liberal and democratic society,” he said. “For centuries, our nation has been moving forward with dozens of languages and hundreds of dialects.”

It felt like firefighting: an exertion to battle the heat that Mr Modi’s government has been facing this month after Amit Shah, his home minister, suggested it was “extremely necessary” for Hindi to project India’s identity in the world.

“Today, if any one language can do the job of holding the country together with the thread of unity, it is indeed the most widely spoken, Hindi,” Mr Shah tweeted a fortnight ago.

His remarks have ignited a blaze of controversy and echoes previous clashes over moves to impose Hindi upon a nation with thousands of languages and dialects. And it has raised the fear that the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) will try to do so again.


With remarkable wisdom, BR Ambedkar and his fellow architects of India’s constitution avoided designating a national language when they drew up the document in 1949. Instead, they named two official languages in which the federal government could conduct its business: English and Hindi. India’s states, they added, could determine their own official languages.

In a country where 43 per cent of people use Hindi as their mother tongue, this was a reasonable compromise.

Yet even as provinces were being formed along linguistic lines, this arrangement nearly unravelled in the mid-1960s. The Indian government moved to discard English altogether as an official language. Among the implications of this was that civil service examinations would be conducted in Hindi.

This set off violent protests. In Tamil Nadu and other parts of south India, where the languages belong to a different linguistic family altogether, riots ensued. The government backed down, not only retaining English but conducting public service examinations in regional languages as well."


FYI, Pakistan loves and sustains its regional languages and cultures. We are just sensible enough to understand the benefits of a national language without killing each other over it. Perhaps it's because we actually wish to be a united country.

 

[waz]

Kashmir has Kashmiri language which needs to be promoted.

Urdu is a beautiful language which has replaced Punjabi in Pakistan but in India regional languages are not dissuaded.

Hindi is being shoved down the throats of the Kashmiris as you type.
Conversational Urdu is not widely spoken, where as Punjabi is. You can’t replace habits or tens of millions who speak it.

 

[El Sidd]

Pirouz and Raja Dahir sitting in a tree.

 

[Shantanu_Left]

India's regional languages such as Tamil, Bengali, Gujarati, Marathi have a rich history that goes back to at least a 1000 years. The languages have evolved in a natural course, and were standardized not less than 500-600 years ago.

The same is true for Urdu: its literary form (which is intelligible with modern standardized Urdu) also stretches back much earlier than Hindi. Consider the following phrase by Mir Taqi Mir. This couplet is probably from the second half of the eighteenth century, before America was formed.

Dikhaai diye yun ki bekhud kiya
Hamein aap se bhi juda kar chale

Most modern Urdu speakers (as well as Hindi speakers) will be able to understand the above paragraph's meaning. In fact, a rendition of this poetry was used in a popular Bollywood song of the '80s from a movie called Bazaar, sung by Lata Mangeshkar. So, literary Urdu had to be nominally replaced by standard Urdu. I am not denying that Urdu borrows 75% of its vocabulary from indigenous Indian languages such as Pali, Prakrit, Sanskrit. But many of the higher vocabulary and concepts come from Persian and Chagatai Turkic words.

In comparison to Urdu, Hindi was formed more recently. Please read Tulsidas, Surdas, and a few other "Hindi" authors who actually wrote in dialects like Brij, Awadhi etc. No Hindi-speaker can understand the meaning of their works without a translation.

This goes with my earlier theory that standardized Hindi language was a recent creation, and the credit goes to British East India company officers. They aimed to design an artificial language to communicate with the Hindu masses (Urdu already existed for communication with the Muslims).

All literate Hindus of the 19th century from Punjab to Bengal, could write their thoughts in fluent Urdu. It was the only "national" language of Northern India.

Then this pretender to the throne came after India became independent in 1947. It was called Hindi, of course - even Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru had a personal dislike of Hindi as he too had been educated in Urdu. Mahatma Gandhi also spoke fluent Urdu.

One of the famous moderators here thread-banned me for expressing these views in another thread (I will not name him).

Now this perversion will continue under Modi-Raj.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

All literate Hindus of the 19th century from Punjab to Bengal, could write their thoughts in fluent Urdu. It was the only "national" language of Northern India.

Spot on. This burns bhakts from the inside out, as much of history seems to do in fact.

@Laozi

 

[Shantanu_Left]

Spot on. This burns bhakts from the inside out, as much of history seems to do in fact.

@Laozi

I see nothing wrong with it. Accept it as part of your history, and move on. Then continue with this artificial language called Hindi all you want. Don't expect me to speak or understand it.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Accept it as part of your history, and move on

This is called maturity. It's why it amuses me also when bhakts refer to us Pakistanis in derogatory fashion as some traitorous people who abandoned their heritage. On the contrary, we simply evolved.

 

[Shantanu_Left]

This is called maturity. It's why it amuses me also when bhakts refer to us Pakistanis in derogatory fashion as some traitorous people who abandoned their heritage. On the contrary, we simply evolved.

Here is that song. It's a nice rendition of the genius called Mir. Sometimes coming to Defence.pk has its benefits.

@waz

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Holy cow! Someone get a load of this crap....

@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @waz

Sorry to waste your time folks but someone needs to hear what these hired goons keep parroting out every now and again.

They are trying to push this false narrative.

Punjabi is not in danger. Vast, vast majority of Punjabis and others living in Punjab prefer to only speak Punjabi. I am from Central Punjab, and some of these Indians say Punjabi is in danger.

This is absolutely false.

@Laozi, next time I will report your post and tag mods. Do not speak about what you don't know.

Here you can find Urdu speaker brother going around Lahore, everyone answers him in Punjabi. Actually most people are comfortable only speaking Punjabi.

 

[xeuss]

This is called maturity. It's why it amuses me also when bhakts refer to us Pakistanis in derogatory fashion as some traitorous people who abandoned their heritage. On the contrary, we simply evolved.

Just being a normal human without hating on others is an evolution from a 5000 year culture.