Pak Hindus refuse to return, cite harassment

[Peshwa]

Please Read my first post carefully .I am not talking about instant granting of Indian citizenship .They can stay here for 7 years .Then they surely get our citizenship.In process they can find a job in India without govt support.
And Hindus dont believe in ghettoisation.But we cant ensure such a thing when it comes BD muslims etc.
You are a secular Muslim.So you may not face it.
And we cant trust foreign muslims .We already have enough examples how these foreign guys misdirected our innocent youths.
Any way I dont like freebies to refugees with the Indian taxpayers money.Religion is not a matter here.

You have to admit that the influx of BD muslims is in part our own fault...
Post 1971 war, we allowed this influx and it continued for a while...now its become a demographic problem in some areas.
Now if we allow these Hindus from Sindh to move into India on the context of Political assylum on humanitarian grounds, then we need to keep the same even keel for Muslims as well...why should these Hindus get special mention? Because we are Hindu majority? Then what seperates us from Pakistan which is a theocratic state? and you dont think Hindu kids get brainwashed?

I for one say, kick the BD muslims out and dont allow any of these hindus in either...But if we allow these hindus assylum, then we cannot crib about the influx of BD muslims as they may have their own reasons (political persecution or whatever else) similar to these hindus..

And i vehemently agree with your statement that no freebies...dont use indian tax payer money for this. Let the NGOs and the UN worry about their welfare...the refugees that is..

Prove me secularism is a essence of are constitution rather it was imposed us during emergency in 1976 when the amendment were made to please congress appeasement policies to please muslims.

The amendments you mentioned are true and the word secular was added later in 76...but that doesnt make India a Hindu country either!!
We have never had a state religion and thats a fact...so favoring one religion over the other is not our policy and never will be!
Hindus are a majority, but no "birthright" exists for Hindus in India..

Well I disagree.If India will not take harassed Hindus,Sikhs,Jains, Buddhists then who will ?
India is the birthplace of these religions.
Many countries provide asylum to harassed minorities e.g US,Uk to Ahmadis from Pakistan.

Why this mirchi when someone suggests India help some poor folks ?

The "mirchi" as you suggest stems from the fact that we have about 400 million hungry and destitute mouths to feed..and here you want to add more misery? Does misery seek company?

Just because we are the birthplace of the religion doesnt mean we take every troubled human being from those religions in...
The US and UK can do that because they are far more developed on every indicator than us and can afford to bear the brunt of the responsibility...
India has its own problems to deal with than to inherit others...we already made the mistake of opening our borders to millions of Bengalis post 71...fool me twice?

 

[Peshwa]

Must I tell you then my friend, none were poor in Sindh. People stayed back because they saw trainloads of dead bodies and violence, early birds made it peacefully. Those who couldn't bribed for their life and their womens' honour. You have no sympathy for them, niether had Gandhi/Nehru. Same happened to many muslims on Indian Side, Jinnah cared niether.

As far as I know, the ones that took the trains were mostly poor...the rich had other means of transport...
So he fear of massacre wasnt the only motivator for many...
I understand if a Hindu living in Baluchistan or the NWFP which were rather far from the border chose not to move, but a lot of Sindhi Hindus did move even at the risk of facing imminent death...to them..Hats off!!
Those that didnt, some may have had genuine reasons, but to me, most just chose not to move because they didnt want to part with their ancestral properties/land etc..
And mind you, cross migration went on till 52...these people could have easily moved in that time frame if not 47 when the bulk of the massacres happened on both sides..

Again, as a human, I do pity them, but as an Indian, I dont sympathize with them. If we were a developed country with low levels of poverty, I would accept them and the troubled Banglas in a heartbeat....But we just aren't!
They should move to the US or UK...countries that have a history of helping the politically persecuted..

Fair enough but what about humanity are we humans or indians/hindus etc first?

as long as they aren't here to create trouble, nothing wrong in giving equal opportunities to refugees

Will you provide the same opportunity to muslims, christians, ahmadis etc that apply for amnesty?
If so, then Im with you...

Just dont discriminate based on religion...

My stance stands firm that help Indians first irrespective of religions, then everyone else...
But if you allow amnesty to Hindus, then open it up to all

 

[NKVD]

You have to admit that the influx of BD muslims is in part our own fault...
Post 1971 war, we allowed this influx and it continued for a while...now its become a demographic problem in some areas.
Now if we allow these Hindus from Sindh to move into India on the context of Political assylum on humanitarian grounds, then we need to keep the same even keel for Muslims as well...why should these Hindus get special mention? Because we are Hindu majority? Then what seperates us from Pakistan which is a theocratic state? and you dont think Hindu kids get brainwashed?

I for one say, kick the BD muslims out and dont allow any of these hindus in either...But if we allow these hindus assylum, then we cannot crib about the influx of BD muslims as they may have their own reasons (political persecution or whatever else) similar to these hindus..

And i vehemently agree with your statement that no freebies...dont use indian tax payer money for this. Let the NGOs and the UN worry about their welfare...the refugees that is..



The amendments you mentioned are true and the word secular was added later in 76...but that doesnt make India a Hindu country either!!
We have never had a state religion and thats a fact...so favoring one religion over the other is not our policy and never will be!
Hindus are a majority, but no "birthright" exists for Hindus in India..

I have sc judgement were it's state Hindutva is a core of our constitution.who Stated that our country is not belong to hindus as its the land were hinduism is born like you say mecca is a land for muhammadians &Vatican for Christians and Jerusalem is for abhramic religions. This land belong to its culture which is Hindutva all people are born in this subcontinent are Hindus.Its easy for you to say that because you are hindu you have freedom to choose any set of beliefs under Hindutva but don't except this from abhramic religions specialy ISLAM as they say one who is not follow your religion is a KaFir you have right to wage jihad on them.its a law of nature my friend like too opposite forces cannot stand each other same goes for case of Hinduism &Islam its two opposite sets of beliefs which cannot stand each other not in the past not in present nor be in the future better accept the truth or its be late eg are Bangladesh, Pakistan were hindu are suppressed to level of extinction.

 

[Peshwa]

I have sc judgement were it's state Hindutva is a core of our constitution.who Stated that our country is not belong to hindus as its the land were hinduism is born like you say mecca is a land for muhammadians &Vatican for Christians and Jerusalem is for abhramic religions. This land belong to its culture which is Hindutva all people are born in this subcontinent are Hindus.

Thats a very different concept than calling india a hindu country aka country for the people belonging to that faith...
Take Israel for example...They specifically state that it is a Jewish homeland...
We consider Hindutva as a philosophy/culture here and not a religion...
Thats my take on it...

To be Honest, I havent read this SC judgement you speak of, so would love to take a look at it before I comment further...

Its easy for you to say that because you are hindu you have freedom to choose any set of beliefs under Hindutva but don't except this from abhramic religions specialy ISLAM as they say one who is not follow your religion is a KaFir you have right to wage jihad on them.its a law of nature my friend like too opposite forces cannot stand each other same goes for case of Hinduism &Islam its two opposite sets of beliefs which cannot stand each other not in the past not in present nor be in the future better accept the truth or its be late eg are Bangladesh, Pakistan were hindu are suppressed to level of extinction.

See bro, you are making this about religion and its not!!! This is about India..India and Indians come first..religion is irrelevant!

Whether Islam considers us Kafir or not is a moot point...we have stuck to our faith for 5000 years and will continue doing so. If Muslim rule couldnt change us (take Iran for example, which fell to Islam over time), what makes you think anything will now? Obviously there is a certain strength in our faith that stands like a mountain..So even if muslms and hindus might have different philosophies, that doesn't mean that we cant be Indian and love the same nation!

Again I reiterate, I do not believe that Muslims and Hindus cant coexist...I live in the US and we get along just fine, as was the case when I lived in Mumbai..

 

[Imran Khan]

Dada many will see your post highly provocative..... Many will label these families traitors or anti Pakistan.....

i must write what i think of feel rather then think abut what others feel

 

[amitkriit]

i will say better live in india

Exactly, India is to Hindus what Israel is to Jews. All Hindus are welcome with open arms in India.

Thats a very different concept than calling india a hindu country aka country for the people belonging to that faith...
Take Israel for example...They specifically state that it is a Jewish homeland...
We consider Hindutva as a philosophy/culture here and not a religion...
Thats my take on it...

To be Honest, I havent read this SC judgement you speak of, so would love to take a look at it before I comment further...




See bro, you are making this about religion and its not!!! This is about India..India and Indians come first..religion is irrelevant!

Whether Islam considers us Kafir or not is a moot point...we have stuck to our faith for 5000 years and will continue doing so. If Muslim rule couldnt change us (take Iran for example, which fell to Islam over time), what makes you think anything will now? Obviously there is a certain strength in our faith that stands like a mountain..So even if muslms and hindus might have different philosophies, that doesn't mean that we cant be Indian and love the same nation!

Again I reiterate, I do not believe that Muslims and Hindus cant coexist...I live in the US and we get along just fine, as was the case when I lived in Mumbai..

A book cannot define/create a nation, not even the constitution. India is a Hindu nation, Hinduism is India's soul. When I say Hindu, I talk about followers of all Dharmic Traditions.

Mammoths perished, Mosquitoes survived. What is your point exactly? Even Street dogs manage to survive on garbage. Is that sufficient?

 

[Peshwa]

A book cannot define/create a nation, not even the constitution. India is a Hindu nation, Hinduism is India's soul. When I say Hindu, I talk about followers of all Dharmic Traditions.

What makes India a Hindu nation? Majority thats about it?

I really would like to know why Hindus who are not Indian by ethnicity or nationality should be allowed citizenship of India and given a share of our national resources and live on our tax money? Dont our poor and destitute deserve that honor first?

Mammoths perished, Mosquitoes survived. What is your point exactly? Even Street dogs manage to survive on garbage. Is that sufficient?

Ill make my point as soon as I figure out which part of my write up you are referring to specifically..

 

[amitkriit]

What makes India a Hindu nation? Majority thats about it?

I really would like to know why Hindus who are not Indian by ethnicity or nationality should be allowed citizenship of India and given a share of our national resources and live on our tax money? Dont our poor and destitute deserve that honor first?





Ill make my point as soon as I figure out which part of my write up you are referring to specifically..

For a better reason than why our coward ancestors licked invaders' rectum for 1000 years and gifted them their sisters and daughters.
Let them outnumber us, we won't be having any honour left.

 

[Peshwa]

For a better reason than why our coward ancestors licked invaders' rectum for 1000 years and gifted them their sisters and daughters.

You seem to have a lot of misplaced hatred...You believe that only hindus belong to India, I don't..

We are at two ends of the spectrum..arguing would be quite futile it seems

 

[amitkriit]

You seem to have a lot of misplaced hatred...You believe that only hindus belong to India, I don't..

We are at two ends of the spectrum..arguing would be quite futile it seems

Wrong, I believe India belongs to Hindus.

 

[Peshwa]

Wrong, I believe India belongs to Hindus.

Confirming my thoughts...

 

[Chronos]

They have enough things to worry about without being made a subject of an abuse slinging match in an internet forum of all places.

They are Pakistanis, too bad the zealots in the country do not realise this.

If you don't speak up for them now, for the Ahmadis, for the Shias or the Christians, then it is probably going to be you next on the fundamentalists hit list.

The thing with religious fanatics is, just because you believe in the same religion as them, they won't let you go. You have to believe in their version of the faith, which they consider to be the 'purest' version of the faith.

Instead of having theological arguments over whether certain faiths are allowed in your land, there is a simplistic argument. Don't kill other prople, or trash their religion, or destroy where they worship because it is against the law.

 

[halupridol]

are there any similar cases in Pakistan,where Indian muslim asks for citizenship..?

 

[Peshwa]

They have enough things to worry about without being made a subject of an abuse slinging match in an internet forum of all places.

They are Pakistanis, too bad the zealots in the country do not realise this.

If you don't speak up for them now, for the Ahmadis, for the Shias or the Christians, then it is probably going to be you next on the fundamentalists hit list.

The thing with religious fanatics is, just because you believe in the same religion as them, they won't let you go. You have to believe in their version of the faith, which they consider to be the 'purest' version of the faith.

Instead of having theological arguments over whether certain faiths are allowed in your land, there is a simplistic argument. Don't kill other prople, or trash their religion, or destroy where they worship because it is against the law.

If you're referring to my discussions with the other members, do note that I do not have any ill will towards these people and do actually pity their situation and hope they can get help...

Just not from India at this point in time..maybe when we are developed and have eliminated our problems.

 

[livingdead]

these hindus seem opportunists, but we cant turn them away. They cant be given any relaxation for citizenship but they should never be forced to leave.