Pak FM to visit Dhaka this year

[eastwatch]

If people like you would ever fall in front of me would insert a big bamboo behind your back.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/181465-pak-fm-visit-dhaka-year-15.html#ixzz1vkZTNTWY

First of all, thanks to the mods, that the offensive post was deleted. My question to dear mods, a member, Captain Planet, who has used these words to threaten violence, assault and bodily harm, perhaps even murder and death to another member, myself, why this person should not be permanently banned from this forum, including with all his ip addresses, where he logs in from?

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/181465-pak-fm-visit-dhaka-year-15.html#post2963355

We have a copy of this post in the above link for future records, my request to mods, please do not delete this post, as I would like for you guys to keep it as a record for legal reasons. If he was in the US, I could probably get this guy to do some jail time for this, but unfortunately, he is sitting in Canada. Thanks.

I do not know who threatened you. I will not wish the some thing like that for you. But, now Razakaars are on their way to hang on the ropes. How about volunteering yourself to the war crime tribunal for a fair trial? Traitors like you will remain always traitor to the motherland. Sk. Mujib did a grave mistake by showing a big heart to people who do not appreciate their extended lives.

 

[Armstrong]

British India had 5 official languages. English, Urdu, Hindi, Bengali, Tamil. Pakistan had two official languages Urdu and Bengali. What is your problem?

And which of the 5 was used for administrative purposes ? English...! We gave that honour to Urdu for obvious reasons !

You had a problem with Bengali so you were giving Urdu. We had a problem with Urdu so we had Bengali. To Bengalis, Urdu is a lower level language than Bangla and not acceptable. Nobody wants a demotion, do they?

We hadn't a problem with Bengali and so we took Urdu...! Urdu was instituted by a man who spoke broken Urdu at best and was spoken as the mother tongue of less than 5% of Pakistanis at that time, because it was 'our lingua franca' and it was the most 'non-partisan' choice of all of the languages available at our disposal ! And calling Urdu as lower level language is not only deeply offensive but factually incorrect when Ghalib, Sauda, Mir, Iqbal, Khusru, Allahbadi, Manto. Pitras, Faraz etc. have produced works that are still translated into the English language for their eloquence ! And yeah because of the official patronage given to Urdu by the later Mughals so many works on Islamic socio-economic, political, legal, theological and philosophical thought were translated from Arabic and Persian into Urdu hence why today it boasts one of the largest (if not the largest) collection of Islamic Literature as that of any other language ! That sort of went well with the slogan of 'Muslim Nationalism' that we fought under !

 

[bindaas]

They already knew the Urdu language ! Most of us by and large were conversant in the Urdu language the only problem was that they couldn't read or write in it ! Ironically thats the same problem that the People of Pakistan faced ! Yes we might have had at easier then the Bengalis when it came to learning the language but what was the alternative ? What other language was supposed to be used for Administrative purposes ? English, Arabic...? Which ? What makes more sense - Choose a language that is non-partisan and understood by the lot of us or adopt English or Arabic as our Official/State language and then teach every single one of them how to speak it never mind actually being able to read and write in it ? I believe it made perfect sense going for Urdu ! Bengali may have a separate vocabulary of its own and a distinct script but if there was a better choice then Urdu for our 'State Language'....I can't think of any ?

There are many countries in the world who has more than one official language and still running successfully.

 

[LaBong]

How does the 60% then converse with each other ? In which language are the state documents filled ? English....I presume ? Well we gave that honour to Urdu simply because of the natural advantage it held and amongst us Urdu was indeed widely understood...how else do you think 4 million Bengalis came to Karachi and Hyderabad and so easily assimilated and continue to do till this date ! Mate, its not fantastical to assert that 'we - the lot of us - could understand what was being said in the language'; we didn't any English, the West couldn't speak a word of Bengali and the East couldn't speak a word of Punjabi but Urdu was a language that we'd be using to converse with one another for so...so many years ! The Muslim League sessions weren't held in Bengali or Punjabi or Sindhi but in English (in case of Jinnah) and Urdu for the rest of them ! So I honestly can't think of what was the other choice....? How else do you galvanize a nation as One without having a National Language....? And what other language would've made a better choice then Urdu ? And no it wasn't an imposition it was simply a realization that 'Urdu and Urdu alone' could provide us the platform to come together and interact with one-another; in time we'd develop a greater command over it ! As for the assertion that Urdu and the regional languages of Pakistan are similar but Bengali is far too different ! Yes I suppose that there is some truth in that but it was not as if that if you speak in Urdu to a Bengali and he'd look at you dumb as if you'd gone nuts....No all of us understood it ! Whereas it would take a Pukhtoon to learn how to read or write in Urdu in 2 years....the same may take a Bengali 3 years....! So what...? Since when has the ease of learning been the definitive factor in any of this for choosing English or Arabic would have taken equally long (different scripts) heck even choosing 'Bengali' as the 'state language' taken equally long with the element of being extremely bi-partisan ! Again I say - Punjabi...My Language - has a literature and a poetic history that would rival any in the world and yet we still willingly listened to Jinnah when he said 'Urdu and Urdu alone with be your State Language' and his words has wrung true because all of us own up to this language as our own and its non-partisan nature ensures that none of the ethnic groups in Pakistan are at loggerheads with each other in the context of 'Language' !

P.S Barahvi has more loanwords from Sanskrit then it does from Persian and yet they still went for Urdu !

P.P.S And indeed they didn't separate because of 'Language Alone' and I didn't assert anything to the effect I was merely pointing out that we - in the West- made a lot of mistakes...a lot but the 'Language issue' was not one of our making and wasn't justified from whichever angle you look at it ! It wasn't anything but unbridled communalism sparked by the Politicians in the East !

Most of the west Pakistani population barring some baluchs and pashtun could easily communicate in Urdu and write in Urdu as Urdu as an language pretty close to Punjabi and sindhi and the script is same. On the other hand it was totally an alien language to Bengalis.

So now tell me who gets grossly benefited in various govt jobs and other exams when the only two languages to be used are Urdu and English.

 

[Luffy 500]

Agartala conspiracy is another farce like bakshal.

lol are you for real. After this epic fart, there is no point in arguing with you. I know that you
know what you have written is a lie. But then again Indian liar propagandist can go to any extent to even twist historical facts. Tell this to anyone in BD and you won't live to tell your tale to your fellow propagandists.

 

[Armstrong]

There are many countries in the world who has more than one official language and still running successfully.

Its the administrative portion that I'm concerned with more but also the fact that a common tongue is an extremely strong tool for 'National Cohesion' and in that respect only Urdu made sense no other language came close to offering what Urdu brought to the table ! South Africa had the Whites who spoke Afrikaans and the Blacks who spoke their indigenous languages but they - the lot of them - choose English to be their Official Language and why ? Because they both could understand it hence why its called 'their lingua franca' ! I still can't understand why such an arrangement wasn't acceptable to the People of Bengal ? Its not as if Urdu and Punjabi are completely inter-changeable and yet most in my Province learned the Urdu language as part of our curriculum so that we could understand each other better ! Even 65 years after Pakistan its only spoken by around 6-8% of Pakistanis as their mother tongue so it certainly isn't as if our 'Regional Languages' died down....nothing of the sort; so again I say - if we could compromise....why couldn't they ? Even if it was a little easier for us because of Nastaliq, though not nearly as easy as its made out to be, the Bengalis still understood it !

 

[LaBong]

The Pakistani logic of Urdu is first language of minority in west Pakistan is stupid as Urdu was lingua franca in north India and present day Pakistan. Almost all of then could read and write Urdu fluently unlike bengalis to whom it was same as Hebrew.

Now you know what's gonna be the result and when a Punjabi and a Bengali write exam in Urdu.

 

[TopCat]

Most of the west Pakistani population barring some baluchs and pashtun could easily communicate in Urdu and write in Urdu as Urdu as an language pretty close to Punjabi and sindhi and the script is same. On the other hand it was totally an alien language to Bengalis.

So now tell me who gets grossly benefited in various govt jobs and other exams when the only two languages to be used are Urdu and English.

It was not only west but even in East Pakistan, Banks and all did not hire if you did not know Urdu. Not only that, Bengali Muslim never accepted Hindi or Urdu as they consider them as competing language even before partition. Aligarh university tried some but got divided on that issues.

Its the administrative portion that I'm concerned with more but also the fact that a common tongue is an extremely strong tool for 'National Cohesion' and in that respect only Urdu made sense no other language came close to offering what Urdu brought to the table ! South Africa had the Whites who spoke Afrikaans and the Blacks who spoke their indigenous languages but they - the lot of them - choose English to be their Official Language and why ? Because they both could understand it hence why its called 'their lingua franca' ! I still can't understand why such an arrangement wasn't acceptable to the People of Bengal ? Its not as if Urdu and Punjabi are completely inter-changeable and yet most in my Province learned the Urdu language as part of our curriculum so that we could understand each other better ! Even 65 years after Pakistan its only spoken by around 6-8% of Pakistanis as their mother tongue so it certainly isn't as if our 'Regional Languages' died down....nothing of the sort; so again I say - if we could compromise....why couldn't they ? Even if it was a little easier for us because of Nastaliq, though not nearly as easy as its made out to be, the Bengalis still understood it !

It is complete flawed logic. You got to take the people in confidence before imposing something on them. If the leaders were so benign then they should had taken Bengali as the only language as it is the language of majority. I bet a Punjabis (the most talented race) would had learned it within 3 years. I dont think West Pakistanis would had mind that considering they wanted a single unified language for whole Pakistan.

 

[Armstrong]

Most of the west Pakistani population barring some baluchs and pashtun could easily communicate in Urdu and write in Urdu as Urdu as an language pretty close to Punjabi and sindhi and the script is same. On the other hand it was totally an alien language to Bengalis.

So now tell me who gets grossly benefited in various govt jobs and other exams when the only two languages to be used are Urdu and English.

On the contrary none of the Muslim League sessions held in Bengal were in the Bengali language they were either in Urdu or English (solely in case of Jinnah) and yet no one had a problem understanding what was being said then ? So no...Urdu wasn't a completely alien language for them otherwise we wouldn't have had the Alamgirs, the Shahnaz, the Zibunissas of Pakistan ! As for the difference of script....! Yes that existed but if the Turks can chuck away 'Nastaliq' in favour of 'Latin' and still learn it then I'm sure so could the Bengalis ! So again I ask even if for a moment we say - No Urdu wouldn't be the official language - then whats the alternative.....? Bengali - none of us understood it here in the West, English - none of us understood it throughout Pakistan ! Urdu made sense - because they could at least understand it and neither could our Punjabis, Sindhis, Pukhtoons, Baloch could read or write Urdu - we had to learn it from scratch too in that aspect of it !

 

[TopCat]

Its not only for Pakistan even Mr. Jinnah had fought with Neheru regarding the official language of India if India is not divided. He made Urdu an issue of India as well. From that we know that Jinnah always had priority on Urdu.

 

[bindaas]

Its the administrative portion that I'm concerned with more but also the fact that a common tongue is an extremely strong tool for 'National Cohesion' and in that respect only Urdu made sense no other language came close to offering what Urdu brought to the table ! South Africa had the Whites who spoke Afrikaans and the Blacks who spoke their indigenous languages but they - the lot of them - choose English to be their Official Language and why ? Because they both could understand it hence why its called 'their lingua franca' ! I still can't understand why such an arrangement wasn't acceptable to the People of Bengal ? Its not as if Urdu and Punjabi are completely inter-changeable and yet most in my Province learned the Urdu language as part of our curriculum so that we could understand each other better ! Even 65 years after Pakistan its only spoken by around 6-8% of Pakistanis as their mother tongue so it certainly isn't as if our 'Regional Languages' died down....nothing of the sort; so again I say - if we could compromise....why couldn't they ? Even if it was a little easier for us because of Nastaliq, though not nearly as easy as its made out to be, the Bengalis still understood it !

Let me make you clear, the words we North Indians used in sanskrit vocabulary based Pure Hindi poetry and literature and seldom use in daily language, Bengalis use those words commonly in daily language and for such people Urdu was as much as alien as Persian or Hebrew is to them.

Forgot Urdu, just simple question why was Urdu chosen as a national language, Bengali was the majority language, will West Pakistanis had accepted language of majority of their population as national language. I read that in 50s West Pakistanis considered Bengali Script as inferior.

 

[TopCat]

On the contrary none of the Muslim League sessions held in Bengal were in the Bengali language they were either in Urdu or English (solely in case of Jinnah) and yet no one had a problem understanding what was being said then ? So no...Urdu wasn't a completely alien language for them otherwise we wouldn't have had the Alamgirs, the Shahnaz, the Zibunissas of Pakistan ! As for the difference of script....! Yes that existed but if the Turks can chuck away 'Nastaliq' in favour of 'Latin' and still learn it then I'm sure so could the Bengalis ! So again I ask even if for a moment we say - No Urdu wouldn't be the official language - then whats the alternative.....? Bengali - none of us understood it here in the West, English - none of us understood it throughout Pakistan ! Urdu made sense - because they could at least understand it and neither could our Punjabis, Sindhis, Pukhtoons, Baloch could read or write Urdu - we had to learn it from scratch too in that aspect of it !

Who was in Muslim League session. Most of them were Nawabs and their mother tongue was Urdu/Hindi.

 

[KingMamba]

Bangladesh has nothing to offer Pakistan, this trip will just be a waste of money. Bengali's will demand an apology we will refuse and then we will get into a fight and return back to Pakistan and maintain the status quo.

 

[bindaas]

Most of the west Pakistani population barring some baluchs and pashtun could easily communicate in Urdu and write in Urdu as Urdu as an language pretty close to Punjabi and sindhi and the script is same. On the other hand it was totally an alien language to Bengalis.

So now tell me who gets grossly benefited in various govt jobs and other exams when the only two languages to be used are Urdu and English.

Baloch and Pashto are Iranian languages and thus vocabulary very much common to Urdu.

 

[Armstrong]

Let me make you clear, the words we North Indians used in sanskrit vocabulary based Pure Hindi poetry and literature and seldom use in daily language, Bengalis use those words commonly in daily language and for such people Urdu was as much as alien as Persian or Hebrew is to them.

Forgot Urdu, just simple question why was Urdu chosen as a national language, Bengali was the majority language, will West Pakistanis had accepted language of majority of their population as national language. I read that in 50s West Pakistanis considered Bengali Script as inferior.

Urdu was never chosen as the 'National Language' of Pakistan up till '71 but rather its 'State Language' ! Jinnah used the term 'state language' and 'lingua franca' interchangeably and said that 'East Pakistanis had every right to safeguard and protect the Bengali language and culture as the official language and culture of East Pakistan.'

In Pakistan each Province, barring, ironically Punjab, has their regional language as the official language of the Province with it being a compulsory subject all the way up till the Graduate level !

A very good article on this subject mentions : In so far as the decision to elevate Urdu as the lingua franca, the language of communication and the state language of Pakistan is concerned, it was obvious that the language of communication was one that was understood in all five provinces of the new state. This was Urdu and Urdu alone. How could Bengali be made the lingua franca of Pakistan? It was of course an important Pakistani language that could have been made the language of the East Pakistan province but no case could be made out for Bengali as state language of Pakistan. To draw an analogy, should Punjabi language be made the state language of Pakistan simply because the Punjabis enjoy the same demographic majority that the Bengalis did pre-1971?

Source : Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan