PAK FA vs F22 Raptor : A Detailed Analasis

[nightcrawler]

No...If the F-15 is to be considered any sort of 'response' and granted that all weapons development are responses to threats, perceived or otherwise, then the F-15 is a response to the highly maneuverable MIG-21, a known threat with known capabilities. The MIG-25's capabilities were nowhere as certain. On the other hand, the MIG-25 was a response to the SR-71, XB-70 and the B-58. Against these high altitude and Mach capable aircrafts, the MIG-25 was inadequate and eventually more capable SAM became that response.

Are you saying the right thing F-15 was a response to the unknown MiG-25. Unknown bcz USA didn't have proper intel of specifics of MiG-25 so they just constructed plane based on their own ideas of what Soviets are capable of assuming that MiG-25 be a great plane they just build a greater one in the face of F-15. A proper example of blessing in disguise!!
you negated a proof here is another
http://dc167.*******.com/img/341612810/996dfb44/Great_Planes_-_McDonnell-Dougl.avi


Regarding SR-71; MiG-25 was totally different story!!

SR-71 succeeded U-2 simply as a reconnaissance plane its a great lame on your part to even compare it with MiG-25. Satellites in those days were not quiet capable of producing required resolution images so these planes had to acquired & because U-2 was dropped down by Soviets a much greater speed/altitude plane SR-71 was already inline!!
So SR-71 was a response to the advancements of RADAR/MISSILE of Soviets a statement himself said by Kelly Johnson head of Lockheed at that time. If you need proof of that let me upload the required doc wait for a day!!! I have to search through by 3TB hard

 

[soaringphnx]

F-22 Raptor Airframes Falling Apart Due to Bad Glue​

30 of the F-22A Raptors delivered by Lockheed Martin use "inadequate adhesive" in their airframes. That means two things in plain language: bad glue; and big trouble.

The report comes after investigators finished looking into an accident that happened last November. Part of the airframe of a F-22A fell off into the engine intake, causing a whopping $1.2 million of damage.

I know that developing an adhesive capable of withstanding wide changes in temperature and stress is no walk in the park, but

Just for everyones info. The SR-71 takes off with fuel dripping from almost every seam of it's tanks. They have to take-off, build up some speed, and wait for the friction to heat up the airframe. Only then do the tanks seal, and they proceed to mid-air re-fuel. Since it's design, they have YET to create a sealant which can withstand the normal operating temps a SR-71 goes through.

 

[flanker143]

Just for everyones info. The SR-71 takes off with fuel dripping from almost every seam of it's tanks. They have to take-off, build up some speed, and wait for the friction to heat up the airframe. Only then do the tanks seal, and they proceed to mid-air re-fuel. Since it's design, they have YET to create a sealant which can withstand the normal operating temps a SR-71 goes through.

the last part was funny... yet true...

 

[Thomas]

F-22 Raptor Airframes Falling Apart Due to Bad Glue​

30 of the F-22A Raptors delivered by Lockheed Martin use "inadequate adhesive" in their airframes. That means two things in plain language: bad glue; and big trouble.

The report comes after investigators finished looking into an accident that happened last November. Part of the airframe of a F-22A fell off into the engine intake, causing a whopping $1.2 million of damage.

I know that developing an adhesive capable of withstanding wide changes in temperature and stress is no walk in the park, but

Just for everyones info. The SR-71 takes off with fuel dripping from almost every seam of it's tanks. They have to take-off, build up some speed, and wait for the friction to heat up the airframe. Only then do the tanks seal, and they proceed to mid-air re-fuel. Since it's design, they have YET to create a sealant which can withstand the normal operating temps a SR-71 goes through.

The F-22 adhesive problem was an old problem with the RAM coating which has since been fixed. The result was each aircraft required many more hours of regular maintenance to fix the RAM. It had absolutely nothing to do with the airframe. The F-117 required even more maintenance.

on a side note future Stealth aircraft now have the RAM incorporated into the carbon fiber of the airframe.

 

[soaringphnx]

It had absolutely nothing to do with the airframe.

I didn't say there was something wrong with the F-22 airframe did I?

 

[nightcrawler]

Just for everyones info. The SR-71 takes off with fuel dripping from almost every seam of it's tanks. They have to take-off, build up some speed, and wait for the friction to heat up the airframe. Only then do the tanks seal, and they proceed to mid-air re-fuel. Since it's design, they have YET to create a sealant which can withstand the normal operating temps a SR-71 goes through.

it wasn't a great problem. JP-17 fuel to be very exact did leaked because of its high slippery nature but its extremely low vapour pressure dont make it flammable even with a burning matchstick!!

 

[gambit]

F-22 Raptor Airframes Falling Apart Due to Bad Glue​

30 of the F-22A Raptors delivered by Lockheed Martin use "inadequate adhesive" in their airframes. That means two things in plain language: bad glue; and big trouble.

The report comes after investigators finished looking into an accident that happened last November. Part of the airframe of a F-22A fell off into the engine intake, causing a whopping $1.2 million of damage.

I know that developing an adhesive capable of withstanding wide changes in temperature and stress is no walk in the park, but

Just for everyones info. The SR-71 takes off with fuel dripping from almost every seam of it's tanks. They have to take-off, build up some speed, and wait for the friction to heat up the airframe. Only then do the tanks seal, and they proceed to mid-air re-fuel. Since it's design, they have YET to create a sealant which can withstand the normal operating temps a SR-71 goes through.

Basically...You are laughing at someone who trips while running but you are still crawling.

 

[soaringphnx]

it wasn't a great problem. JP-17 fuel to be very exact did leaked because of its high slippery nature but its extremely low vapour pressure dont make it flammable even with a burning matchstick!!

The fuel used was JP-7, not JP-17. I know it wasn't a big problem. The fuel has a high flash point making it extremely difficult to light by conventional methods. So while it did leak on the ground, it wasn't a fire hazard. In fact it was used as a coolant before being burnt.

 

[Thomas]

I didn't say there was something wrong with the F-22 airframe did I?

it was implied pieces of the F-22 airframe were coming apart due to faulty adhesive. The picture also implied it even though it is a photoshop.

"30 of the F-22A Raptors delivered by Lockheed Martin use "inadequate adhesive" in their airframes. That means two things in plain language: bad glue; and big trouble.

The report comes after investigators finished looking into an accident that happened last November. Part of the airframe of a F-22A fell off into the engine intake, causing a whopping $1.2 million of damage.


instead of airframe you should have said RAM coating. There is a big difference between the two.

 

[nightcrawler]

instead of airframe you should have said RAM coating. There is a big difference between the two

Can you explain the difference.Will much appreciate

 

[d14gtc]

very thorough an informative analysis indeed.

 

[Thomas]

Can you explain the difference.Will much appreciate

There are different types of RAM (radar absorbent material). what exactly is used on the F-22 is classified. The RAM is applied to the airframe (aircraft body).

Because of how the F-22 was designed only about 20% of the F-22 body requires a Ram coating. Compared to about 95% of the F-117.

F-22 Stealth Older article explaining F-22 RAM


"Radar absorbant materials, or RAM is applied sparingly on the F-22 airframe as opposed to the entire airframe on the F-117. This is because designers have incorporated curves on crucial surfaces and edges, which lessens the need for RAM. For example, new ceramic-matrix RAM is utilized on the engine exhaust nozzles to reduce radar and IR signatures, and a greater amount of wide-band structural RAM is used on the wing edges. The interesting shape of the radome on the F-22 reflects radar signals at all frequencies except the precise wavelengths emitted from the F-22. This can be attributed to the radome's low bandpass type.

To apply the complex system of paints and coatings necessary to meet the F-22's stringent radar cross section (RCS) requirements takes not only state-of-the-art equipment and hands-on technicians, but also a wide-ranging support system. A new type of paint, or topcoat, increases the F-22 Raptor's stealthiness by reducing its vulnerability to infrared threats. To meet F-22 requirements, Boeing developed the topcoat to protect the aircraft against a broad range of wavelengths. The new paint replaces conventional topcoats, performing all the required environmentally protective functions while also reducing the aircraft's vulnerability to detection. The topcoat does not add to the F-22's weight, and provides performance enhancement at a very modest cost. It is applied in a two-tone camouflage design, patterned after the F-15 "Mod-Eagle" paint scheme. Development of the new topcoat began during the early stages of the F-22 program. Since that time, a small team at Boeing in Seattle has worked to refine the paint and improve its application characteristics in a production-level environment. Technicians at Lockheed Martin painted the first few aircraft by hand, however, robotic application is planned for future Raptors, including Raptor 04, which is scheduled to fly this summer. The topcoat application for each Raptor is expected to take one to two days. "

 

[SQ8]

There are different types of RAM (radar absorbent material). what exactly is used on the F-22 is classified. The RAM is applied to the airframe (aircraft body).

Because of how the F-22 was designed only about 20% of the F-22 body requires a Ram coating. Compared to about 95% of the F-117.

F-22 Stealth Older article explaining F-22 RAM


"Radar absorbant materials, or RAM is applied sparingly on the F-22 airframe as opposed to the entire airframe on the F-117. This is because designers have incorporated curves on crucial surfaces and edges, which lessens the need for RAM. For example, new ceramic-matrix RAM is utilized on the engine exhaust nozzles to reduce radar and IR signatures, and a greater amount of wide-band structural RAM is used on the wing edges. The interesting shape of the radome on the F-22 reflects radar signals at all frequencies except the precise wavelengths emitted from the F-22. This can be attributed to the radome's low bandpass type.

To apply the complex system of paints and coatings necessary to meet the F-22's stringent radar cross section (RCS) requirements takes not only state-of-the-art equipment and hands-on technicians, but also a wide-ranging support system. A new type of paint, or topcoat, increases the F-22 Raptor's stealthiness by reducing its vulnerability to infrared threats. To meet F-22 requirements, Boeing developed the topcoat to protect the aircraft against a broad range of wavelengths. The new paint replaces conventional topcoats, performing all the required environmentally protective functions while also reducing the aircraft's vulnerability to detection. The topcoat does not add to the F-22's weight, and provides performance enhancement at a very modest cost. It is applied in a two-tone camouflage design, patterned after the F-15 "Mod-Eagle" paint scheme. Development of the new topcoat began during the early stages of the F-22 program. Since that time, a small team at Boeing in Seattle has worked to refine the paint and improve its application characteristics in a production-level environment. Technicians at Lockheed Martin painted the first few aircraft by hand, however, robotic application is planned for future Raptors, including Raptor 04, which is scheduled to fly this summer. The topcoat application for each Raptor is expected to take one to two days. "

Weren't there new "zip strips" developed for the Raptor? Which compared to the Nighthawks tedious putty method reduced the time for RAM maintenance considerably??

 

[soaringphnx]

it was implied pieces of the F-22 airframe were coming apart due to faulty adhesive. The picture also implied it even though it is a photoshop.

"30 of the F-22A Raptors delivered by Lockheed Martin use "inadequate adhesive" in their airframes. That means two things in plain language: bad glue; and big trouble.

The report comes after investigators finished looking into an accident that happened last November. Part of the airframe of a F-22A fell off into the engine intake, causing a whopping $1.2 million of damage.


instead of airframe you should have said RAM coating. There is a big difference between the two.

F-22 Raptor Airframes Falling Apart Due to Bad Glue​

30 of the F-22A Raptors delivered by Lockheed Martin use "inadequate adhesive" in their airframes. That means two things in plain language: bad glue; and big trouble.

The report comes after investigators finished looking into an accident that happened last November. Part of the airframe of a F-22A fell off into the engine intake, causing a whopping $1.2 million of damage.

I am not the author of the above part. The picture too is not my work. I merely posted an article I found. The title is a link to the original article. I know that RAM coating is different from the airframe.

 

[Break the Silence]

Basically...You are laughing at someone who trips while running but you are still crawling.

Indeed a ego- satisfying comment. Yes Sir, You are A running Rabbit and We are slow tortoise...
@ TOPIC

Its foolish to compare a underdevelopment aircraft to a proven one!!
Reality is ,There is no fighter aircraft in present times is comparable to Raptor..Its Damn good for others!!