PAK-FA takes to the sky!

[notorious_eagle]

My sources told me the Photochop specialist is on emergency family medical leave, duration undetermined. But when he returned to active duty, no doubt he will be hard at work hacking up something.

Sir you always seem to underestimate Russia's technological abilities when it comes to Aviation, nodoubt the Americans are ahead but dont you think after all this R & D the Russians might be able to put a plane that can match the F35. In your professional opinion, when do you see the Russians coming up with a 5th Generation Aircraft and can they produce something even close to the F22?

 

[gambit]

Sir you always seem to underestimate Russia's technological abilities when it comes to Aviation,...

No...I do not. The current problems for current Russian aviation is little difference from past problems from the Soviet system. Under the Soviets, finance and engineering talents were not issues for concerns, but then why were the Soviets so consistently behind the US? Economics. Now look at today and see for yourself.

...nodoubt the Americans are ahead but dont you think after all this R & D the Russians might be able to put a plane that can match the F35.

Might be? Yes. Will be? No. But what inevitably will happens is that many people will latch onto certain aircraft characteristics that are comparable to the F-35, or perhaps even surpass it, and grossly exaggerate the overall superiority of the Russian product.

In your professional opinion, when do you see the Russians coming up with a 5th Generation Aircraft and can they produce something even close to the F22?

When we have something ready to replace the F-22.

Here are the 'official' unofficial standard for this 'fifth generation' class:

1- Radar signature of less than one meter square at 200 km.
2- Supercruise.
3- Vectored thrust.
4- Internalized weapons.
5- An Active Elect. Scan Array radar system.

 

[Storm Force]

I stated earlier the Russians and indeed others be it the europeans & china in the future will always copy or attempt to copy USA systems within a decade of USA new weapons.

F22 CAME IN 2007 its only natural that Russia will field a similar plane in 2017

Like wise flankers came 10 years after USA teen series.

And just look at RAFAEL AND TYPHOONS today great planes too.

RUSSIA lacked money but india has the dollars to help with PAK FA and india will als source jammers etc from Israel and the west

it will be a big improvement on mki

 

[SinoIndusFriendship]

yes hurry up chinis,,,,,,,,,,masters of copying & as everyone knows copying dosent require brains................lage raho

I like it. Brings back memories of months past here at and BRF. Personally I find your energetic enthusiasm fun. I don't take offense at being a Chini.

Anyhow, back on topic. Any real photos of the PAKFA yet? That would be real interesting and it would quell the doubters! I'm still 50/50 on whether the J-XX or the PAKFA will be the first to leak photos.

 

[Chanakyaa]

yes hurry up chinis,,,,,,,,,,masters of copying & as everyone knows copying dosent require brains................lage raho

Plz Avoid Such Comments. Does no good and invites unhealthy reactions.

Chinese have their own Indigenous Programme which is NOT a Copy of Any thing else , they cant have it as Nothing in the name of Gen 5 Fighter Exists outside US as of Now which they can COPY.

Btw, Reverse Engineering too needs an equal amount of effort and its really not so easy, other wise each country could manage to have its own F16 OR MIG 29 the best selling planes !

 

[SinoIndusFriendship]

Plz Avoid Such Comments. Does no good and invites unhealthy reactions.

Chinese have their own Indigenous Programme thats NOT a Copy of Any thing else , they cant have it as Nothing in the name of Gen 5 Fighter Exists outside US as of Now.

Btw, Reverse Engineering too needs an equal amount of effort and its really not so easy, other wise each country could manage to have its own F16 OR MIG 29 the best selling planes !

XiNiX brother, you have matured much! And I am ashamed to say many Chinese members have become more 'emotional'.

Anyhow, I am happy to see Asia as a whole progressing and have more guts to demand respect we deserve!

 

[notorious_eagle]

Quite hard for me to believe that even with the Indian financing, the Russians can field a true 5th Generation Aircraft. Afterall the Americans spent $65 billion on the F22 program, the only country that comes to mind that can match that spending power is China and they surely are putting their money to good use in R&D. Lets wait and see!!!!!!!!!

 

[Chanakyaa]

Quite hard for me to believe that even with the Indian financing, the Russians can field a true 5th Generation Aircraft. Afterall the Americans spent $65 billion on the F22 program, the only country that comes to mind that can match that spending power is China and they surely are putting their money to good use in R&D. Lets wait and see!!!!!!!!!

PAK FA is never going to match F22.
But, Russians are known to make Cheaper Planes.

The Price can some times can be take to nearly Half of what the Americans will as u for a plane in the same league.

Su30 = $40 Million
S.Hornet = $65-70 Million

So u may say they do adjust in Low budget.

But You must remember one Gr8 Tale from the History :

While Americans spent Millions of Dollars to Develop a pen That could help Astronauts Write in the Space , The Russians Simply Handed a "pencil" to their Cosmonauts !

The Approach to the Problem and subsequent Technical development may definitely change your costs.

 

[gogbot]

I also heard of making SU-MKI stealth and i guess MIRAGE by some gulf country as well and now FG one , Dude i am gonna party tonight IAF will be going too much potent in near future.

You don't get Stealth for 4.5 gen planes.

None of then Have internal weapons bays.

You get RCS reduction Features.

 

[gogbot]

In our dreams. The design was closed long before. India provides the money and some material and maybe some software for the avionics thats about it. Its a Russian plane in every sense with guarantee of Indian buy.

Anyway its useless providing all the ToT. What they gonna do with it?The design papers are gonna lie somewhere crumpled up.


Time to scrap the public defense companies and make it zero/low tax for the defense industry like it was done for the software industry.

So we pay then cash to develop a plane, that they will then sell to us.


Come dude, The Russian Negotiation stand point is exactly what you mentioned there. But India has other Idea's. That's why the Deal is till going through Negotiations.

The joint-venture borrows heavily from the success of the Brahmos project. Russia and India had agreed in early 2007 to jointly study and develop a Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft Programme (FGFA). On October 27, 2007, Asia Times quoted Sukhoi's director, Mikhail Pogosyan, "We [India and Russia] will share the funding, engineering and intellectual property [of the new project] in a 50-50 proportion." The Indian version, according to the deal, will be different from the Russian version and specific to Indian requirements. While the Russian version will be a single-pilot fighter, the Indian variant will have a twin-seat configuration based on its operational doctrine which calls for greater radius of combat operations. The wings and control surfaces need to be reworked for the FGFA.

Asia Times Online :: South Asia news - India, Russia still brothers in arms

Your selling our guys short. India will Participate on the design Modifications of the PAK-FA to be made the FGFA. As well The Indian Version will use a lot more composite materials then the PAK-FA. Making it lighter Whist still being a Double seater.

Indian Aviation Industry Will learn a lot from its Russian Counterpart.
In TOT and design Techniques.

yet India still wants more.

According to HAL chairman A.K. Baweja on 16 September 2008, HAL will be contributing largely to composites, cockpits and avionics. HAL is working to enter into a joint development mechanism with Russia for the evolution of the FGFA engine as an upward derivative of the AL-37. By February 2009 as per Sukhoi general director Mikhail Pogosyan India will initially get the same PAK FA fighter of Russia and the only difference will be the software.

We are also trying to get Russian Secrets of Engine Design.

Believe me MoD are trying to get as much as it can from this Deal
The Pre-longed Negotiation period alone shows you, GoiG is not just signing what ever the Russians put in front of them.

 

[Chanakyaa]

You don't get Stealth for 4.5 gen planes.

None of then Have internal weapons bays.

You get RCS reduction Features.

Guess what our baby LCA scores the best here in gen 4.5 class.

• Small in size
• Composite Airframe

Two factors that make it an excellent interceptor. Though not stealthy its more stealthier than its counterparts.

 

[gogbot]

Guess what our baby LCA scores the best here in gen 4.5 class.

• Small in size
• Composite Airframe

Two factors that make it an excellent interceptor. Though not stealthy its more stealthier than its counterparts.

It is the Smallest and lightest Fighter out there

its RCS is naturally very small. And its rate of climb is very high

people don't realize how excellent the Tejas really is. Each jet is a potent machine

 

[Developereo]

Care to detail the shared ToT? specially the one from india to russia?

Didn't you know? The Russians are stupid and need the Indians to teach them about composites, cockpit design and avionics. Makes you wonder how they managed to compete with the Americans all these decades on their own...

people don't realize how excellent the Tejas really is. Each jet is a potent machine

Without a working engine, it's mostly an impotent machine.

 

[KSRaj]

Without a working engine, it's mostly an impotent machine.

I hope you do realise that the engine powering the LCA currently (GE F404) powers one of the most successful aircraft.

In case you are referring to the Kaveri, then even the JF-17's "original" engine is not yet up-to-mark. So as per you, JF-17 is impotent, right?


Back to topic,
With so many folks already having seen the PAKFA, why is it taking so much time for someone to leak some visuals of it! If not the photos, atleast a description of how it looks like.

 

[RAHUL INDIAN]

Without a working engine, it's mostly an impotent machine.

i would differ here....machine remains potent even if it uses other engine..!!!

Whose engine it is machine doesnt know the difference...

Yes u can say India need to work out its own engine also.....that is fine....we understand it and as u must be aware we are working on the issue....