PAK-FA : photos and videos

[ptldM3]

Why don't the Russians ever come up with an original design. Everything the make seems to be a copy of the West in one way or the other. comparing the two aircrafts, its pretty evident that the PAK-FA design is immensely influenced by the Raptor.

How so? Because of V-tails? Sorry there is no going around that, is it because of the slanted nose? Sorry, again there is no going around that either. The pak-fa and the F-22 share completely different fuselages. And like i mentioned the design of the nose and tails is nessessary for 'stealth' but even then the F-22 has a 'droopy' nose while the pak-fa has a flat nose and the V-tails on the pak-fa are spaced differently as are the nozzles.

 

[Prowler]

Why don't the Russians ever come up with an original design. Everything the make seems to be a copy of the West in one way or the other. comparing the two aircrafts, its pretty evident that the PAK-FA design is immensely influenced by the Raptor.

Well what is it about the PAK-FA that you think is similar to the F-22 Raptor? Compare the control surfaces of both these Aircrafts and then talk buddy..even the shape and size too is much different..you may feel that they are similar but if you look closer then you will see that they have nothing in common other than the fact that both belong to the same generation.

 

[nForce]

A good aircraft. But its way too crude and kinda raw in design to be compared to an F-22. Could someone put a picture of an F-22 along side a PAK-FA. PAKFA still has a long way togo to be able to be at par with an F-22. 8 years? by that time USAF will have upgraded the F-22 or a new aircraft would be out with much better advanced technology.

Looking at the track record, Russian technology has always been less perfectedd and modern compared to western. Mainly because russians have always preferred having LArger numbers. Quantity instead of Quality.

hmm too crude in design???can we all here can have some idea on the basis of which u declare it to be crude plz??...And comparison with f22??? im also waiting for your version of comparison....

 

[Prowler]

How so? Because of V-tails? Sorry there is no going around that, is it because of the slanted nose? Sorry, again there is no going around that either. The pak-fa and the F-22 share completely different fuselages. And like i mentioned the design of the nose and tails is nessessary for 'stealth' but even then the F-22 has a 'droopy' nose while the pak-fa has a flat nose and the V-tails on the pak-fa are spaced differently as are the nozzles.

Buddy heard on some forum that the Engine inlets are gonna have Plasma stealth to absorb/deflect radar...what do you think?

 

[ptldM3]

Buddy heard on some forum that the Engine inlets are gonna have Plasma stealth to absorb/deflect radar...what do you think?

I don't know anything about it.

 

[Prowler]

I don't know anything about it.

Never mind ..but keep us posted mate

 

[Kinshuk]

Arey geniuses, please answer my question also. It's on the previous page.

 

[jha]

even i had mentioned plasma stealth when i gave a seminar on Stealth tech. in my engineering days. there was no FGFA at scene and when seminar was over , HOD came to me and asked if this was possible and i said NO at that time.
and even now i stand by it..this is way too cool to be possible and the kind of power it will need is just not managable on an aircraft .

However i would like to proved wrong by new mujahids gladly..

 

[jha]

Arey geniuses, please answer my question also. It's on the previous page.

imo some agreements were done during putin's visit...anyways you can always dig up old news papers..

 

[KEETARP]

Can someone tell me if GOI and Russia have signed all the necessary documents, with regards to PAKFA development?

No not at all , not a single document has been signed .
Problem is Russians want to offer A Phased manner JV that is JV for diff phases of development of FGFA not a single JV .
This is what is holding up Signing .

And believe me Russians are quite correct - It has taken up many Years of funding and development by pooling all Russian brains , in each and every sector of Aircraft .
Whether its -

RADAR by NIIP and NIIR
RAM, STEALTH composites by Unitedware of UAC
FLAT NOZZLE for ENGINES by SALYUT or SATURN
etc .
All these components have been either funded by respective company or a Joint deal be Russian Gov and Company

Its all and all best Russian tech so far , so if India wants to walk away just by signing an Agreement . Not happening so easily.
Bcoz if its done , then Indian Engineers would learn in span of 10 years what Russians have learned in 100 years and Russian aero-space industry would be dead

India would sign deal for each phase and component , eventually but when Only Time will tell .

Second thing is ,
some End-user monitoring and IP protection issue which Russians want similar to Indo-US agreement ,

 

[gogbot]

Can someone tell me if GOI and Russia have signed all the necessary documents, with regards to PAKFA development?

i have some links from PIB Press Release

PIB Press Release

Thursday, October 18, 2007

India and Russia sign landmark agreement for joint development and production of fifth generation fighter aircraft

TALKS TO EXTEND MILITARY COOPERATION AGREEMENT BEYOND 2010 WITH RUSSIA HAS STARTED: ANTONY
20:4 IST
India and Russia today signed a landmark Intergovernmental Agreement for the joint development and joint production of the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA), marking the beginning of cooperation in the development of state of the art new technology major weapon systems. The agreement was signed by the Secretary Defence Production Mr KP Singh and Deputy Director of the Federal Service for Foreign Military Cooperation Mr. Vyacheslav Dzirkaln in the presence of the Defence Minister Mr. AK Antony and his Russian counterpart Mr. Anatoly Serdyukov in Moscow today. The watershed agreement was signed at the conclusion of the Seventh Meeting of the India- Russia Intergovernmental Commission for Military and Technical Cooperation. Mr Antony and Mr Serdyukov also signed a Protocol which envisages a 'new strategic relationship' based on greater interaction at various operational levels.

Speaking to reporters shortly after the signing ceremony, Mr Antony said the two countries have agreed to strengthen and expand relations in all areas especially in the areas of joint exercises and greater cooperation in the field of Research and Development. “Now the frequency and level of exercises will be higher”, Mr. Antony said. He said talkswith Russia have started to extend the Military Cooperation Agreement beyond 2010. The pact had been signed during the Russian President Mr. Vladimir Putin's visit to India in 2000.

The Defence Minister described the Agreement on FGFA as a 'major landmark' and said that the Indo-Russian relationship is on a trajectory to reach new heights. He hoped that the two countries would soon sign an Intergovernmental Agreement on co-development and co-production of Multi-Role Transport Aircraft. Mr. Antony expressed satisfaction at the outcome of discussions on other important projects e.g., supply and licensed production of T-90 tanks, SU-30 MKI aircraft and other strategic issues. He admitted that there has been a delay in the delivery of the repaired and refurbished aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov alongwith supply of deck-based fighter aircraft MiG-29-K and said it was decided that some more studies by technical groups would be done to go through the details. He appreciated the efforts made by the Russian side to resolve issues relating to life cycle support of equipment of Russian origin.

On the question of Integrity Pact, he said, “the objective is neither to create problems for anybody nor to favour anybody. What India wants is transparency in all defence purchases. In the past, there have been a lot of controversies. We want to avoid it. We want speedy modernisation but with transparency. Integrity Pact is one of the safeguards for transparency”.

The Defence Minister returns home tomorrow.

Sitanshu Kar

PIB Press Release

Friday, December 28, 2007

JOINT DEVELOPMENT OF FIFTH GENERATION FIGHTER AIRCRAFT

India and Russia signed a landmark Intergovernmental Agreement for the joint development and joint production of the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA), marking the beginning of cooperation in the development of state of the art new technology major weapon systems. The agreement was signed by the Secretary Defence Production Mr KP Singh and Deputy Director of the Federal Service for Foreign Military Cooperation Mr. Vyacheslav Dzirkaln in the presence of the Defence Minister Mr. AK Antony and his Russian counterpart Mr. Anatoly Serdyukov in Moscow. The watershed agreement was signed at the conclusion of the Seventh Meeting of the India- Russia Intergovernmental Commission for Military and Technical Cooperation.

PIB Press Release

Friday, October 09, 2009 Ministry of Defence


Antony to go on a Three-Day Visit to Russia

EXTENSION OF DEFENCE COOPERATION AGREEMENT BY TEN MORE YEARS TO TOP THE AGENDA

12:48 IST

The Defence Minister Shri AK Antony will be going on a three day official visit to Moscow on 13 October to attend the 9th meeting of the India-Russia Inter Governmental Commission on Military Technical Cooperation (IRIGC-MTC). The IRIGC-MTC meets annually, alternately in India and Russia, at the level of the Defence Ministers of the two countries to review and discuss matters relating to the bilateral defence cooperation between the two countries. The meeting to be held on 14-15 October will be chaired by Shri Antony from the Indian side and by the Russian Defence Minister, Mr. AE Serdyukov from the Russian side.

The extension of the existing India-Russia Long Term Inter-Governmental Agreement on the programme for Military Technical Cooperation for a further 10 years, from 2011 to 2020, will be the main focus of discussions during the meeting of the commission. India and Russia had concluded an agreement in December 1988 which envisaged a programme for defence cooperation between the two countries up to the year 2010. The extension of this programme beyond 2010 has been under consideration and this matter had also been discussed by the Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh during his meeting with President Putin in Moscow in 2007. Both sides have, since, been working towards finalizing the programme for defence cooperation beyond 2011. The anticipated discussions at the commission level would pave the way for conclusion of the Agreement during Dr Singh’s forthcoming visit to Russia in December 2009 for the Summit meeting between him and President Medvedev.

In addition to the consideration of new areas for potential defence cooperation between the two countries, both sides will also be focussing on ways to step up progress in important on-going projects which are expected to reach significant stages of activity in the coming years. The indigenous production of the Russian origin T-90 S tanks at the Heavy Vehicles Factory, Avadi, under license from the Russian side will be one of the major on-going projects, in which the Russian side is providing technical and product support for the indigenous production of tanks. The modernisation of the SU 30 MKI aircraft is also expected to come up for discussion in the Commission’s meeting. The aircraft, contracted in 1996, are due for overhaul shortly and the Russia side have offered an upgrade of the aircraft with incorporation of the latest technologies during the major overhaul.

The continuation of the India Russia Joint Venture BrahMos is also likely to be discussed, in the context of on-going discussion for the development of the next generation hypersonic Cruise Missiles – BrahMos-2 and the on-going proposal to coordinate the BrahMos with the SU 30 MKI.

Among the major new projects which will be high in priorities of the Indian agenda for bilateral defence cooperation between the two countries, will be projects for joint design and development of the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) and of the Multi-Role Transport Aircraft (MTA). The co-development and co-production of the FGFA with Sukhoi Design Bureau Russia has been progressing, with several rounds of discussion already completed to finalize the technical requirements. During discussions in the meeting of the Commission, Shri Antony would highlight New Delhi’s interest in ensuring that the development phase of the FGFA is completed by 2016, as originally anticipated and that induction of the aircraft into the IAF can start by 2017.

Both sides will also review the progress on the MTA, on which the Inter-Governmental Agreement had been signed during the visit of Dr Manmohan Singh’s to Moscow in November 2007. Both sides have been discussing the formation of the Joint Venture company which would execute the project involving design, development and production of the Medium Transport Aircraft in the 15-20 tonne class to meet the requirements of the Russian and Indian Armed Forces. Both sides are likely to conclude the Agreement to form the JVC shortly.

The Defence Minister’s delegation to the IRIGC-MTC will include the Defence Secretary Shri Pradeep Kumar, Secretary (Defence Production) Shri RK Singh, DG (Acquisition) Shri SK Sharma, senior officials of DRDO, Ministry and the Armed Forces. A Protocol incorporating the various aspects of current and future Indo-Russian bilateral defence cooperation will be signed at the conclusion of the meeting.

Sitanshu Kar

PIB Press Release

Thursday, October 15, 2009
Ministry of Defence


India, Russia to ink two major agreements on Defence Cooperation
12:47 IST
Two major agreements to boost Defence Cooperation between India and Russia are likely to be signed during the Prime Minister Dr. Manmohan Singh’s visit to Moscow later this year. Decks for the signing of the two agreements were cleared today during the ongoing visit of Defence Minister Shri AK Antony to Moscow. The first agreement will be on extending the Military Technical Cooperation for ten years from 2011 to 2020 and the second relates to After- Sales Product Support for Defence Equipment of Russian origin.

The outlines for the two agreements were hammered out during the 9th Meeting of the India-Russia Inter-Governmental Commission on Military Technical Cooperation (IRIGC-MTC) which concluded in Moscow today. The two-day meeting was presided over by Shri Antony and his Russian counterpart Mr. Anatoly Serdyukov.

The meeting reviewed the status of various ongoing bilateral defence cooperation projects. The Commission also reviewed the status of two major projects for joint design and development of the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) and the Multi-Role Transport Aircraft (MRTA). Both the Defence Ministers expressed the hope that the recent rounds of consultations between technical experts on both sides would result in greater progress in these projects. The Russian side assured of continuing technical support and technology transfer in accordance with the agreed schedules for the indigenous production of T-90-S tanks and SU-30MKI fighter jets in India. Shri Antony stressed the need to ensure that there were no slippages in these projects.

On the sale of the aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov, both sides agreed that the cost negotiations would continue to find a mutually acceptable solution. Issues relating to defence supplies in a number of other projects were also reviewed in detail by the Commission. The Russian side responded positively to India’s request to expedite proposals for setting up facilities for modernisation, repair and overhaul of military aircraft including MiG-29-Upgrade in India.

In his opening remarks to the meeting yesterday, Shri Antony said India and Russia have an enduring strategic partnership and defence ties. He described Russia as a time tested and dependable friend of India. Shri Antony emphasized that the Indian Government was determined to strengthen the bond in all areas of bilateral relations. He noted that over the years defence relations between India and Russia have evolved from a simple buyer-seller relationship to a broadbased partnership where both countries are involved in joint design, development and production of defence equipment. Taking note of the structured mechanisms for defence interactions with Russia, Shri Antony said that Russia is the only country with which India has such a well established multi-tiered mechanism which has contributed to the strengthening of bilateral ties.

The Indian delegation to the two-day IRIGC-MTC meeting included the Defence Secretary Shri Pradeep Kumar, Secretary (Defence Production) Shri Raj Kumar Singh and other senior officials of the Ministry of Defence and the Armed Forces.

NA/PK/RAJ

PIB Press Release

Joint Manufacturing of Aircraft
17:27 IST
/LOK SABHA/

India and Russia signed Inter Governmental Agreements (IGA) for Co-development and Co-Production for Multi Role Transport Aircraft (MTA) on November 12, 2007 and for a Prospective Multi Role Fighter Aircraft (PMF) on October 18, 2007.

The percentage share of investment by the Indian side towards development will be 50 % each for both aircraft. The Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) would be comparable to the best of its type/class in the world. The project would be set up in India, as well as in Russia. MTA & FGFA, both are design and development programmes. It is estimated that the aircraft would be inducted by the Indian Air Force in the 13th Plan period.

This information was given by Minister of State for Defence Shri MM Pallam Raju in a written reply to Shri Tufani Saroj in Lok Sabha today.

PK / RAJ

 

[KEETARP]

No , JV is still not signed between HAL and UAC , companies responsible for development and production .

Mark it- Only an intergovernmental agreement on "understanding to build together is in place.

^^^^^^^^ All the above links are old , either 2007 or 2009 . Let me give links from 2010 -
Russia to make 1,000 stealth jets, eyes India deal | Top News | Reuters
Imp extract from Feb 2010 link-

Pogosyan said an agreement on joint output of the jet with India was still in the works and did not say when a deal might be signed

Another one from March2010 Link-
8ak - Indian Defence News

Another crucial contract to be finalised will be joint development of Multi-role transport aircraft (MTA), which is to be developed by Hindustan aeronautics limited and Russia’s United Aircraft Corporation. A general agreement on the joint development of fifth generation fighter aircraft by 2016 is also on the cards.

Read my Post above about the phased JV , Here is another link confirming that
Putin Visits India to Cement Defence Ties | India Defence Online

A Russian team’s visit for the joint development of the fifth generation fighter aircraft, with advanced stealth features, is also being carried out this month. The fighter aircraft will have super-cruise capability, thrust-vectoring and integrated avionics and they will be expensive. A preliminary design contract cost of $332 million has been conveyed by the Russians, with the development cost of the advanced fighter reaching over $6 billion exclusive of the cost of production.

As you see a first contract for 332mill will be signed in future when discussion conclude about IAF req and workshare of HAL . India wants 25-50% workshare while Russia wants India to have not more than 15% Work-share .
Further deal will be of 6Bill JV in total split into phases.

Currently 3 things are holding up -
Work-share Agreement , India wants 25-50% while Russians want to give only 15% work-share
IP protection issues like Americans have with india
Joint phased development while India wants just one Agreement.

 

[ptldM3]

 

[ptldM3]

Photoshoped in Indian colors

 

[KEETARP]

Is it my eyes dillusion or Fuselage from Top looks slightly dipped in middle and then up again . Sauccer shape or what we call Angled Concave shape .

Holy-Sduct