PAK-FA on the road to nowhere?

[SingaporeGuy]

Yap. And as of now, even if they get back to the end of line for F-35, it could still be India’s best option. At this point, it should stop asking for TOT with F-35 if India is serious.

I would place an order on F-35 and try to develop other platforms. If India cant produced jack in the mean time, it still have F-35 to fall back on. Let’s say if India place an order for F-35 now, it can always cancel if India miraculously develop a fifth gen fighter.

the t.o.t concept makes india looks extremely bad.

quite sure india is the only foreign customer blatantly asking for bargained technology transfer a.k.a give me the blueprint for everything

to conclude - if not for t.o.t not sure if india could even get past wright brothers 1903 prototype on her own.

when can india have a respectable armed forces really?

if everything has to be t.o.t then without r&d there's only so far it can progress.

looking at china, the current tech gap between china and usa is down to gerard r ford aircraft carrier and zumwalt class destroyer.

slowly and surely we know that china will produce her own nitmitz class in less than 10 years

 

[faithfulguy]

the t.o.t concept makes india looks extremely bad.

quite sure india is the only foreign customer blatantly asking for bargained technology transfer a.k.a give me the blueprint for everything

to conclude - if not for t.o.t not sure if india could even get past wright brothers 1903 prototype on her own.

when can india have a respectable armed forces really?

if everything has to be t.o.t then without r&d there's only so far it can progress.

looking at china, the current tech gap between china and usa is down to gerard r ford aircraft carrier and zumwalt class destroyer.

slowly and surely we know that china will produce her own nitmitz class in less than 10 years

Every innovacation in India comes from TOT as India lack any reverse engineering skills.Its best and brightest all left India. It’s people all aspire to leave. As India is a place you want to leave. As a result, only H1B rejects stay in India.

 

[SingaporeGuy]

Every innovacation in India comes from TOT as India lack any reverse engineering skills.Its best and brightest all left India. It’s people all aspire to leave. As India is a place you want to leave. As a result, only H1B rejects stay in India.

exactly.

Im quite surprised that even with transfer of technology - that india's military production speed is not At acceptable level even during peacetime.

even til then their own national pride tejas is 40% foreign made.

One would wonder if they have any production schedule, sense of urgency as well as the survivability of india in any major wars where hardware needs to be replenished asap.

Industrial production speed is like the 2nd most important thing ever.

 

[randomradio]

Is this supposed to be some kind of joke?

China went from J-7(3rd gen) to SU-27(4th gen) to J-10(4.5 gen) to J-20(5th generation).

In any kind of air-battle between IAF and PLAAF, a squadron of 5th gen J-20s will be used to swot IAF's 4th gen fighters out of the sky like swotting flies.

J-7 to Su-27.

J-20 has a long road to travel before it becomes a threat.

not sure how its gonna work out bro!
India could have been using the F-35 if not for some indecision by their leadership.

pretty sure that trump will want india to have f-16/fa-18 production lines open.

india might have been able to access the F-35 under obama



quite sure china will have ew resistant stealth air superiority drones by then



exactly - this is what i wanted to say.

An armed forces should always be fluid to mould itself to respond to threats.

The current tech gap between india and china is extremely wide, just thankful that india has nukes if not it will be occupied

F-35 was offered to India, we didn't take it. It wasn't indecision. Plus there are a lot of bureaucratic hurdles that have to be crossed first.

the t.o.t concept makes india looks extremely bad.

quite sure india is the only foreign customer blatantly asking for bargained technology transfer a.k.a give me the blueprint for everything

to conclude - if not for t.o.t not sure if india could even get past wright brothers 1903 prototype on her own.

when can india have a respectable armed forces really?

if everything has to be t.o.t then without r&d there's only so far it can progress.

looking at china, the current tech gap between china and usa is down to gerard r ford aircraft carrier and zumwalt class destroyer.

slowly and surely we know that china will produce her own nitmitz class in less than 10 years

The IAF is better than the PLAAF even with the J-20 present. The actual operational capability is different, we have better 4th and 4.5th gen jets, better flying hours, better training etc. And there is a massive geographical advantage for India also.

 

[Han Patriot]

J-7 to Su-27.

J-20 has a long road to travel before it becomes a threat.



F-35 was offered to India, we didn't take it. It wasn't indecision. Plus there are a lot of bureaucratic hurdles that have to be crossed first.



The IAF is better than the PLAAF even with the J-20 present. The actual operational capability is different, we have better 4th and 4.5th gen jets, better flying hours, better training etc. And there is a massive geographical advantage for India also.

Yup J-7s, J-8s, to JH-7A/B, see we have been building planes for decades. All India has is TEJASSS THIS TEJAS THAT.

Good you believe, we train less, have have less gen 4+ fighters. Yes, our gen 5 fighters are just toy planes, nothing to worry about. As usual, India is the best. Yet you can't even make a decent rifle and your crash rates are twice of ours. Superb training indeed, first time I saw a jet crashing while taxiing, only India can do it.

I mean seriously, don't you have a sense of shame? Blatantly bragging and lying when it's so obvious, the Indian military is a joke?

 

[shootingstar]

Not closing FGFA deal is the biggest blunder being committed by India to the point one to term it as an intentional/sinister move by Modi to break the Indo-Russian relations for good.

 

[Trango Towers]

Any weapon with the word “Pak” in it is a strict no no

Should have been pleet FA

 

[randomradio]

Yup J-7s, J-8s, to JH-7A/B, see we have been building planes for decades. All India has is TEJASSS THIS TEJAS THAT.

Good you believe, we train less, have have less gen 4+ fighters. Yes, our gen 5 fighters are just toy planes, nothing to worry about. As usual, India is the best. Yet you can't even make a decent rifle and your crash rates are twice of ours. Superb training indeed, first time I saw a jet crashing while taxiing, only India can do it.

I mean seriously, don't you have a sense of shame? Blatantly bragging and lying when it's so obvious, the Indian military is a joke?

We prefer not making junk.

Not closing FGFA deal is the biggest blunder being committed by India to the point one to term it as an intentional/sinister move by Modi to break the Indo-Russian relations for good.

We have time to sign the deal. We don't have to be in a hurry. If we wait a little more, we can get a far mature product with next gen stuff. In the meantime, we have a massive squadron hole to fill.

 

[shootingstar]

We have time to sign the deal. We don't have to be in a hurry. If we wait a little more, we can get a far mature product with next gen stuff. In the meantime, we have a massive squadron hole to fill.

Time is the essence. Modi screwed up with the RAFALE deal and it is incredible that he is doing the same with PAK-FA/FGFA.

India was supposed to be the first customer of RAFALE but end up behind Egypt & Qatar and still have to wait at least until 2019 for the first fighter to show up. This is again being repeated with PAK-FA/FGFA.

Why do you have to wait for product to mature. If you get in early then there is opportunity to influence, participate and learn from the program.

 

[randomradio]

Time is the essence. Modi screwed up with the RAFALE deal and it is incredible that he is doing the same with PAK-FA/FGFA.

India was supposed to be the first customer of RAFALE but end up behind Egypt & Qatar and still have to wait at least until 2019 for the first fighter to show up. This is again being repeated with PAK-FA/FGFA.

The programs will go ahead once he is re-elected. I'm hoping for a FGFA signature this year though.

Why do you have to wait for product to mature. If you get in early then there is opportunity to influence, participate and learn from the program.

FGFA will have the same airframe and engine, slightly modified. But a lot of avionics will be different, so we will still be participating and learning from the program irrespective of when we start. It's just that, the more we wait, the Russians will have made better stuff. Not to mention, Indian companies will also be better positioned to be able to deliver more avionics.

 

[SingaporeGuy]

J-7 to Su-27.

J-20 has a long road to travel before it becomes a threat.



F-35 was offered to India, we didn't take it. It wasn't indecision. Plus there are a lot of bureaucratic hurdles that have to be crossed first.



The IAF is better than the PLAAF even with the J-20 present. The actual operational capability is different, we have better 4th and 4.5th gen jets, better flying hours, better training etc. And there is a massive geographical advantage for India also.

let me correct you...

assuming similar pilot abilities, no matter how good is a 4G or even a 4.99G fighter jet it cannot beat a 5G jet

otherwise F-35 would find no home amongst first rate air forces across the world

the chinese stealth jets are made to be identical to american stealth jets

 

[randomradio]

let me correct you...

assuming similar pilot abilities, no matter how good is a 4G or even a 4.99G fighter jet it cannot beat a 5G jet

otherwise F-35 would find no home amongst first rate air forces across the world

the chinese stealth jets are made to be identical to american stealth jets

Two problems there:
One, you don't know what 5G really means.
Two, you don't know what we are doing to counter the Chinese 5G.

F-35 isn't really what you would call a fighter jet.
If the Chinese stealth jets are identical to American jets, then that's not exactly good news for you.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Two problems there:
One, you don't know what 5G really means.
Two, you don't know what we are doing to counter the Chinese 5G.

F-35 isn't really what you would call a fighter jet.
If the Chinese stealth jets are identical to American jets, then that's not exactly good news for you.

kindly teach us about fighter generations you stubborn @randomradio

One, you don't know what 5G really means.

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/fighter-aircraft-gen-1.htm
http://www.fighterworld.com.au/az-of-fighter-aircraft/five-generations-of-jets
this is jet fighter genration you stubborn @randomradio

F-35 isn't really what you would call a fighter jet.

If it is not called fighter jet than what it call a "submarine" or "tank"you stubborn @randomradio

 

[faithfulguy]

The programs will go ahead once he is re-elected. I'm hoping for a FGFA signature this year though.



FGFA will have the same airframe and engine, slightly modified. But a lot of avionics will be different, so we will still be participating and learning from the program irrespective of when we start. It's just that, the more we wait, the Russians will have made better stuff. Not to mention, Indian companies will also be better positioned to be able to deliver more avionics.

I like the attitude of waiting. India should wait until Russia created the Death Star to get the ultimate weapon.

 

[Han Patriot]

We prefer not making junk.



We have time to sign the deal. We don't have to be in a hurry. If we wait a little more, we can get a far mature product with next gen stuff. In the meantime, we have a massive squadron hole to fill.

Arjun and INSAS is not junk? . Even your navy is rejecting LCA.

Why not you wait for another 30 years, then you can get even better technology. Hell, why even develop anything nw, by Indian logic, you should wait all tech to go obsolete, and go to hyperwarp tech in 100 years time.