Pak blocks two key SAARC pacts

[BJlaowai]

The rivalry between India and Pakistan is jeopardizing the whole idea of SAARC. One has to get out, for any progress to happen. Just 2 options available.
1. Can SAARC survive without Pakistan in it?
2. Can SAARC survive without India in it?

The Answer is very obvious.

 

[SMC]

^^ You're grossly underestimating the geographics importance of Pakistan.

 

[TechLahore]

^^^we do have a border with Afghanistan. Though the area currently is under illegal occupation by Pakistan...

We also have a border with Bangladesh. Which is currently illegally occupied by India.

Karan what are you turning into...

 

[TechLahore]

The rivalry between India and Pakistan is jeopardizing the whole idea of SAARC. One has to get out, for any progress to happen. Just 2 options available.
1. Can SAARC survive without Pakistan in it?
2. Can SAARC survive without India in it?

The Answer is very obvious.

SAARC cannot survive without Pakistan. If you think otherwise, have India attempt to create an alternate South Asian cooperation organization without Pakistan and let's see how far it goes. The fact that India hasn't even tried is, in of itself, the answer to your question.

I've noticed lately that too many Indians here are getting on their high horses and acting as if they are the Maharajas of the world. It's amusing and self-delusional, of course, but another corollary of this condition is that it makes for third-class debates and discussions. This attitude is ruining this forum.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

^^^we do have a border with Afghanistan. Though the area currently is under illegal occupation by Pakistan...

This post was the best post of 2010.
Hall of shame.

 

[agni - kalam]

thats why india is leaving out pak and developing the alternate organisation for economic development

BIMSTEC

if pakistan keeps on creating problems, it will become a problem

 

[TechLahore]

thats why india is leaving out pak and developing the alternate organisation for economic development

BIMSTEC

if pakistan keeps on creating problems, it will become a problem

Whatever... this organization, which is unknown and without clout, has no meaning in a global or even a regional context. Pakistan is one of the principal drivers of ECO, which is far more extensive than this unknown organization you just brought up. And oh, India is not a member.

tehran times : ECO summit will give boost to the region: Pakistan ambassador

Organizations which have pull, such as SCO, are platforms of relevance. Pakistan and Hindustan are both observers here, but since SCO is - by far and away - a China driven organization, Pakistan enjoys solid backing here. In a forum such as this, India will always be relegated to second or third tier as China will make clear that this is a China-driven platform and India must participate here on Chinese terms.

The OIC is another organization India has been trying to join since the Rabat conference in '69 and has been unable to. I wonder why...

India blasts OIC for interference in Internal Issues | India Defence

http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/...RENCE,+MUMBAI,+26/11&SectionName=pWehHe7IsSU=

It's quite clear that the OIC continues to take an anti-India position. India hasn't been able to do a darn thing about it. And before you tell us how you don't "care" about the OIC, please look hard and deep into your government's repeated attempts to join the OIC which have been consistently rebuffed for 41 years. If India didn't care about this, they wouldn't have repeatedly tried to get on board somehow.

Only a fool would underestimate Pakistan's diplomatic leverage. The Afghanistan situation is just one more example where India now finds itself on the receiving end.

I see India losing Afghanistan to Pak sooner than anticipated. Pakistan is using its leverage as strategic partner in selective war against Terror and Indian diplomacy is exponentially failing. Please comment.: India Today - Latest Breaking News from

How India might ‘lose’ Afghanistan | The Acorn

Losing the game: India jittery about Pakistani gains - Afghanistan - Zimbio

Why India lost the Afghan plot... | Hard News

Even within the South Asian context Bangladesh, which has often been decidedly anti-India, and Sri Lanka, which maintains close defence ties with Pakistan, are far from India's stooges as some here would like to believe. Burma is heavily influenced by China and maintains its principal alliance with them. Sikkim has borne the brunt of Indian interference. The Maldives, both through the OIC and otherwise, enjoys very close relations with Pakistan. Who does that leave? Nepal? The political tide there too has turned...

Sharafat say baat karo to sharafat say jawab milay ga. If you try and act high and mighty when your reality is far removed from such an arrogant and ill-advised posture, you will be the loser.

 

[third eye]

Giving a route to India to cross through is not a good idea, our respected countries dont trust each other to the level as of yet. And till the time the trust deficit is not dealt with. Sorry.

Err.. Sorry for what ?

The route already exists ! We have discussed it here.

Check these out :

http://www.defence.pk/forums/economy-development/38920-afghan-pak-transit-trade-2.html

and...

Afghanistan resumes exports with India after 30 years

Updated at: 1315 PST, Friday, November 13, 2009

KABUL: Afghanistan exported 12 tonnes of apples to India, officials said, touting the shipment as a key step in exploring much-needed international markets for its agricultural products.

The apples were sent to New Delhi via air and road, as part of efforts to encourage farmers to grow crops other than opium.

"Today makes history," Agriculture Minister Mohammad Asif Rahimi told a press conference at Kabul airport before an Air India plane carrying three tonnes (3.3 tons) of Afghan apples took off for New Delhi.

Nine tonnes were sent by road through neighbouring Pakistan, the minister said.

"This is the first time that we export apples to India. This is a very major step in enhancing our farmers' economy," he added.

Rahimi said about 400 tonnes of apples will be shipped to India this season.

Afghanistan's agriculture sector has suffered badly during 30 years of war, driving many farmers to grow opium, a lucrative crop with which other products have not been able to compete.

 

[Bang Galore]

Well sir there are always 2 sides of the coin and as much as you guys like to claim victim and show the world that its always Pakistan's fault. The reality is that your country have its own share of issues and cannot be trusted with its intentions towards Pakistan.
And may be its best for both the countries to walk out, but if your country intend to do that then it should be purely based on its own reason and not because of Pakistan.

Fair enough. I was replying to the earlier post arguing against giving transit rights for India through Pakistan.

I guess by that logic India have no right to even talk about Afghanistan!

You misunderstood. That is Pakistan's argument not India's. I was making the point that if this argument made in the earlier post is accepted, then Pakistan would have nothing to do with 6 states in SAARC.

Pakistan holds bilateral relations with India hostage to the Kashmir issue. If Pakistan is also going to hold a multilateral forum hostage to the same issue then it is valid to ask what Pakistan brings to the table. 6 of the countries in SAARC have little or no interest in Indo-Pak issues. Why should they be wasting their time in a forum guaranteed to be derailed by Pakistan's obsession? I cannot fathom Pakistan's position. The Kashmir issue predated the founding of SAARC. If Pakistan feels so strongly about its relations with India to not allow any progress then the only alternative would be to bypass it. Pakistan could have chosen to join SAARC after it resolves the Kashmir issue but blocking agreements at a multilateral forum purely on a ground that does not concern most of the members is simply wasting everyone's time. What incentive would there be to attempt progress on any issue if it is a foregone conclusion that Pakistan would block it anyway citing lack of progress on the Kashmir issue?

 

[Bang Galore]

Pakistan is one of the principal drivers of ECO, which is far more extensive than this unknown organization you just brought up. And oh, India is not a member.

Excellent for the other countries involved. Otherwise Pakistan would probably derail it too.

Organizations which have pull, such as SCO, are platforms of relevance. Pakistan and Hindustan are both observers here, but since SCO is - by far and away - a China driven organization, Pakistan enjoys solid backing here. In a forum such as this, India will always be relegated to second or third tier as China will make clear that this is a China-driven platform and India must participate here on Chinese terms.

Best of luck to you, you work your way in the SCO and leave SAARC alone.

The OIC is another organization India has been trying to join since the Rabat conference in '69 and has been unable to. I wonder why...

We are with you on this one. Most Indians wonder why too.

It's quite clear that the OIC continues to take an anti-India position.

And why is that? Pakistan anyone?

And before you tell us how you don't "care" about the OIC, please look hard and deep into your government's repeated attempts to join the OIC which have been consistently rebuffed for 41 years. If India didn't care about this, they wouldn't have repeatedly tried to get on board somehow.

I can never understand this. Why does India want to be a member of the Organisation of Islamic Countries? We are not one and anyways the secular nature of the Indian constitution should mean that we don't become members of organisations with a religious bias. Most Indians would not want to be in that organisation anyways.

Only a fool would underestimate Pakistan's diplomatic leverage.

And only a fool would overestimate it either.

Even within the South Asian context Bangladesh, which has often been decidedly anti-India, and Sri Lanka, which maintains close defence ties with Pakistan, are far from India's stooges as some here would like to believe. Burma is heavily influenced by China and maintains its principal alliance with them. Sikkim has borne the brunt of Indian interference. The Maldives, both through the OIC and otherwise, enjoys very close relations with Pakistan. Who does that leave? Nepal? The political tide there too has turned...

And yet none of them(exclude Burma) blocked the agreement. Pakistan did. Should tell you something, should it not?

SAARC cannot survive without Pakistan. If you think otherwise, have India attempt to create an alternate South Asian cooperation organization without Pakistan and let's see how far it goes. The fact that India hasn't even tried is, in of itself, the answer to your question.

They are trying, whatever your opinion on its relevance.

 

[agni - kalam]

"If you try and act high and mighty when your reality is far removed from such an arrogant and ill-advised posture, you will be the loser".

- TechLahore


^^ this advice is more relevant for pakistan.



we dont want any neighbouring countries to be our stooges,

we just dont want them to do any anti-india activities.

 

[Wounded Healer]

we dont want any neighbouring countries to be our stooges,

we just dont want them to do any anti-india activities.

And what world are you living in hmmm?

Because the India that we know has always tried to dominate and play God to its smaller neighbors.

If India had not tried to influence everything in its neighboring countries, then there wouldn't be any anti-India activity, now would it?

regards,

 

[Prometheus]

Pakistan made a similar about-turn on the proposed agreement on response to disasters. The agreement proposed that the member countries would pool in their resources to meet exigencies in any of the member countries.

and once again sufferer is gonna be common people.
whenever a natural disaster occurs, every country accepts aids and help from other nations to over the limitation of resources.
i dont what Pakistan had to do with stooping this draft?????

Or they dont want lives of the people saved?

 

[Lilo]

BIMSTEC coupled with the Look East Policy should be the way forward for South Asia.
The remaining part of South Asia can take its own sweet time to choose between getting on board or being left behind.

The latest report from WB for SouthAsia economic outlook show that Af -Pak is lagging far behind the performers like India, BD, SL and even Nepal has stole a march ahead of Af -Pak.

India is set to double the per capita income compared to Pak. Srilanka had percapita income greater than india. Now BD is on course to overshoot Pak's percapita income.To have economic integration its imperative for the members to have comparable economic and development indicators.
So a new economic block is needed for the more prosperous states of south asia and BIMSTEC is the answer.

Uncertainty and war mar Pakistan’s progress: WB

By Anwar Iqbal
Monday, 26 Apr, 2010 | 02:40 PM PST |
WASHINGTON: Political uncertainty and fighting continue to disrupt economic activity in Pakistan while other South Asian nations are expected to emerge stronger from the current global crisis, says a World Bank report.
In its Global Monitoring Report for 2010, the bank places Pakistan among the conflict-affected countries where “political uncertainty and fighting continue to disrupt economic activity”.

The only two other South Asian nations in this category are Afghanistan and Nepal. While the situation in Afghanistan is worse than in Pakistan, the bank observes that Nepal is beginning to show signs of improvement.
Compared to other nations in South Asia, these three are expected to face more moderate growth outturns.
India, Bangladesh and Bhutan are expected to emerge from the global crisis with stronger growth performances, backed by generally sound economic policies and greater resilience of trade, investment and remittances.
Sri Lanka is also forecast to post a relatively firm recovery, supported by the recent surge in capital inflows and improvement in investor confidence following the cessation of fighting after over three decades of civil war.
The report also places Pakistan among the countries where the growth has been weakest because they entered the global crisis with large internal and external imbalances.
In Pakistan, it severely constrained domestic demand. Sri Lanka and Maldives faced similar conditions.
Countries that entered the crisis with stronger fundamentals, such as Bangladesh, Bhutan and India, weathered the crisis better.

Global Monitoring Report 2010 - World Bank

With all this Afghanistan is going to get the shorter end of the stick for no fault of theirs. But thats what you get if you have a neighbor like pak.

 

[agni - kalam]

"And what world are you living in hmmm?

Because the India that we know has always tried to dominate and play God to its smaller neighbors.

If India had not tried to influence everything in its neighboring countries, then there wouldn't be any anti-India activity, now would it?

regards,-Wounded Healer"




that is pakistan's perception,

cant help out of the thinking