PAF's possible answer to MRCA

[Neo]

Neo - u r right but there are no plans as yet to induct FC-1/JF-17 in the PLAAF. the chinese are concentrating on the J-10 and the J-11B as part of their cutting-edge fighters.
FC-1 will be a export product and the chinese are very interested to capture this low-cost medium tech market.

Sir,

Chinese are contract bound to induct atleast 100 FC-1's in PLAAF, I haven't seen any reports suggesting diffrently.

 

[fatman17]

Chinese should have 8 JF-17s. The production capability of 16 aircrafts per year is currently in China. We have received eight, and they have received eight. It was part of the plan.

i dont deny this but it is not reported in their PLAAF order of battle.

 

[fatman17]

Sir,

Chinese are contract bound to induct atleast 100 FC-1's in PLAAF, I haven't seen any reports suggesting diffrently.

correct again Neo - but just think for a moment - why PAF has increased its committment from 150 units to 250 units?. one could be to keep the per/unit cost as per budget (US 15-20 mill) because the chinese are slow in their committment to induct the JF-17.

 

[Neo]

Chinese contract is to assure continuity of the project, not just cost management.
Btw, without Chinese order the cost would be higher than projected $18 million.

 

[Neo]

The increase in numbers is due to success in progress and capabilites, we'll be able to replace much more squadrons with JF-17 than inital plan.
Initially we wanted to replace the J-6 and J-7's with the Thunder and Mirages with F-16's and another western design.

Now JF-17 will replace AQ-5, J-7P/J-7PG and Half the Mirages III/V.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

On the issue of the radar being procured for the JF-17, if our requirement for aircraft has gone up to 250 aircraft, then we are potentially looking at close to 200 units, not including any export units - doesn't that give Pakistan leverage to negotiate for license production and ToT?

If it does, any reports that Pakistan is indeed looking for such an agreement with whoever the final supplier ends up being?

 

[Neo]

On the issue of the radar being procured for the JF-17, if our requirement for aircraft has gone up to 250 aircraft, then we are potentially looking at close to 200 units, not including any export units - doesn't that give Pakistan leverage to negotiate for license production and ToT?

If it does, and reports that Pakistan is indeed looking for such an agreement with whoever the final supplier ends up being?

We've adopted the policy of purchasing with full ToT. Many European countries like Italy, France and Czeck Republic are willing to sell licences, specially when we talk in nubers like 200-250.

The first batch of Chinese KLJ radar will evetually be replaced by a western desgin, so the number could go to 250

 

[Energon]

Would it be possible to relieve the Chinese from their contractual commitment of inducting the 100 JF-17s?
It seems to me that the JF-17, a low cost baseline multirole fighter doesn't really fit the requirements of the PLAAF who seem to be looking for more sophisticated and expensive fighters like the J-10 and the Flanker derivatives. In such a case, it would be far more advantageous for Pakistan to increase their order and/or induct the aircrafts at a faster pace by procuring the 100 units meant for China and then exporting the units being produced after the PAF's quota is full to interested parties like Azerbaijan and Sudan.

I think Thunder and Dragon both are multirole but thunder is better choice in interceptor/dog fight role where as Dragon is more suitable for strike role nad can be used in bomber role as well

Don't be ridiculous. The specifications of both aircrafts indicate that the J-10 is a superior platform for both air superiority and strike missions.

 

[BATMAN]

Don't be ridiculous. The specifications of both aircrafts indicate that the J-10 is a superior platform for both air superiority and strike missions.

What are you counting as specifications?

And yes, Americans are also not buying Thyphoon, does that make it a inferior product?

 

[Energon]

What are you counting as specifications?

The ones that are applicable to the roles in contention.

And yes, Americans are also not buying Thyphoon, does that make it a inferior product?

This is your argument? Really?

The US's not having procured the Eurofighter has nothing to do with the fact that the J-10 is a more superior operational platform than the JF-17.

 

[Quwa]

As per tphuang's blog, the PLAAF may be interested in JF-17 as a twin-seat advanced trainer & LIFT as well as attack aircraft to replace Q-5. In that case the PLAAF would probably buy more than 100 JF-17. More will also depend on the JF-17's improvements in its future pre-2015 batches - particularly in RCS, range, payload, engine and serviceability. Overall it might prove to be a good support aircraft to supplement the J-10 & J-11B.

 

[ejaz007]

Since JF-17 is clearly superior to Q-5 and J-7 and PLAF operates a number of these plans there is every possibility that eventually this plane shall be inducted in PLAF. Replacing all Q-5 and J-7 with J-10 or Flankers may not be possible due to cost involved and also to bring down the unit cost of JF-17 and make it more export feasible Chinese government could ask PLAF to induct the plane.
The planes has exceeded all the parameters originally anticipated and is still going through improvements so it could be a very good contender for export to countries with budget constraint airforces.
As far as radar and avionics is concerned I think Italian and French companies are in the race and one of them shall be the winner.

 

[sehranasheen]

i thinkwe should avoid western option to counter MRCA, due to political and economical reasons. if we opt for any western AC, there will always be the fear of embargoes os spareparts and they can also jamm them through codes. the other reason is they are very expensive. PAF should stick to JF-17 and J-10 and upgrade it to 4.5 gen AC by putting more sophisticated avionics, and wait for JXX to come out.

 

[sohailbutt]

i thinkwe should avoid western option to counter MRCA, due to political and economical reasons. if we opt for any western AC, there will always be the fear of embargoes os spareparts and they can also jamm them through codes. the other reason is they are very expensive. PAF should stick to JF-17 and J-10 and upgrade it to 4.5 gen AC by putting more sophisticated avionics, and wait for JXX to come out.

Brother, if u see PAF history it has always kept a mix of American, European n Chinese fighters in it fighter fleet. we do not expect an aircraft to be selected by PAF to counter MRCA soon, it may be 3 years or may be more, from now that PAF takes a decision, to counter this MRCA threat, well i can tell u this that PAF will always keep an American fighter with it, no matter wut the economic, political conditions, i am pretty sure that once this new government takes a strong hold of the country than our economy will grow very fast, n political situation will improve, we cannot stick to just JF-17 n J-10's they r not mature enough, they need time to mature, if u compare them to Western fighters, Western fighters r way ahead in avionics etc.

When we talk of J-XX, we really dont know what kind of avionics it will have, that can possibly give it an edge over F-35 and possibly if not exceed but stand against F-22 raptors, it is still in design n development where as both f-35 n f-22 r already servin the defence forces, there has always been uncertainity over the supplies of fighters from US. but brother, money has always talked n it talks today as well, frankly speaking if somebody has money he can go n buy a rolls for himself, if he doesnot have then he may not be able to buy a cheaper car as well, that is the case with Pakistan right now, but u will see big changes in the next decade, cause the next decade 2010-2020, will change Pakistan forever, with Gwadar port fully operational, IPI, possibly TAPI gaspipelines running from our country n economy growing at a constant 7% anually which will accelerate when the political situation stablises in the next few years, Pakistan would be a major player in the region n tha world as well. our country then can afford all kind of fighters, no matter either American f-35's or European.

But i can tell u one thing for sure PAF will surely counter MRCA with a much advance fighter, from the 5th generation league, possiblities include F-35's, J-XX.

my choice would be F-35's cause J-XX will not be able to match the avionics which r in F-35, n by the time J-XX comes out F-35 would be serving many airforces all around the world which included one of our brotherly nation of Turkey (they will have 100 F-35's by the end of 2019, Mashallah).

We shuld not worry abut MRCA too much cause it's goin to take IAF a year or may be more to study all the proposals word by word, then again there is lenghty process which follows on, they r likely to place the order for MRCA in late 2009, then after they do that, expect the first batch of planes to arrive by 2013, by that time PAF would have collected loads of money to place n order for 5th generation possibly, cause their is no use of buyin 4th geneation heavy fighters like f-15's, eurofighter, rafale, when u have the respective airforces of these countries already goin ahead with 5th generation F-35's.

 

[nitesh]

Guys this is first post here.

Sohail as you said pakistan will always keep american fighters in its inventory then it means they are always suseptible to american senctions isn't it?

When you talk about J-XX you accept that you dont have an idea about avionics package. But can you please give the timeframe when it is expected to be in air.
As even -35 will be operational by first batch of MRCA arrives, so realistically speaking J-XX might take on skies probably around 2015, then testing the bird, validating configurations and finally induction will take lot of time.


And when did french said they are going ahead with F-35?

So I think pakistan should worry about MRCA. As it can tilt the balance of forces in the region quite dramatically.