PAF vs. IAF Analysis- Air Combat Over the Subcontinent

[Dazzler]

IMHO, the pilot skills of both PAF and IAF are very good to say the least and there shouldn't be any doubt in it. I have heard appreciation even from ex PAF pilots including Sir Murad for Indian pilots. But when we see the overall comparison, history tells us that although the competition has been fierce between the two, PAF holds an overall edge in terms of skill, training over IAF as appreciated by many experts around the world including Alan Warnes, Chuck Yeager etc.

 

[chantpapipart2]

IMHO, the pilot skills of both PAF and IAF are very good to say the least and there shouldn't be any doubt in it. I have heard appreciation even from ex PAF pilots including Sir Murad for Indian pilots. But when we see the overall comparison, history tells us that although the competition has been fierce between the two, PAF holds an overall edge in terms of skill, training over IAF as appreciated by many experts around the world including Alan Warnes, Chuck Yeager etc.

Even if I agree with you for a second, how much skill and training can compensate for technology. You can’t send your best trained Karachi taxi wala to Formula one race and expect him to win because he is best trained.

 

[Dazzler]

Ignorance is a bliss in many cases. I said "historically" and never said that is the case today. We do have Combat Commander School, our counter part of the American TOP GUN. We are in a process of modernization for the last few years and in coming 2-4 years, things will shape drastically.

Thanks

 

[chantpapipart2]

Ignorance is a bliss in many cases. I said "historically" and never said that is the case today. We do have Combat Commander School, our counter part of the American TOP GUN. We are in a process of modernization for the last few years and in coming 2-4 years, things will shape drastically.

Thanks

My friend don't get wrong. I am not undermining capabilities of Pakistani pilots and rate them among best. However it’s the responsibility of your govt to provide them with best technology to defend Pakistan. I don’t think modernisation program of PAF will make any difference. Relative gap between IAF and PAF will remain more or less the same. For example, most of the Pakistani members justify induction of JF 17 by saying it is meant to replace older generation aircraft. But that is not important, the important thing is, what it’s going to face in war. When your enemy’s 10 year old jet is better than your future induction, situation is not good for PAF.

 

[Dazzler]

@chantpapipart2

A very sensible post indeed, your concern is valid as this is a point of concern for us. There will never be a parity in case of India/Pakistan scenario both in terms of technology and numbers but it should be noted that both sides are also facing obsolescence factor which is needed to be addressed. Developments are taking place as we see AWACS, AAR, block 52, FC-20 and the thunder being into the PAF so we are addressing the issue upto our capabilities. Next five years are very crucial for PAF

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

Where is the link man

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

What would possibaly stop you from posting the link ? Don't spread false news.

 

[SQ8]

Poor fellow is trolling everywhere with this supposed news..that is ..around.. four.. five years old.. i guess.

 

[mjnaushad]

Phirsays is just spamming all the threads.... I already replied him on other thread.

But troll never read the reply after which his purpose cannot be completed and which is more trolling.

 

[Roby]

What would possibaly stop you from posting the link ? Don't spread false news.

He is a new member, may be thats why he cant post links.

 

[mjnaushad]

He is a new member, may be thats why he cant post links.

There is no source of this news....He just copy pasted few paragraphs from here which have all news from start to end of JFT on one page. and added a line in the end that Russia has just refused permission for the transfer of its RD-93 engines.


Pakistan’s JF-17 Fighter Program


It can be found here too

Pakistani JF-17 Program Grounded!!, page 1

The news is of 2007 if you can read the dates.

 

[silent hawk]

i am afraid i gonna be disagree with you. i have read so many modern war histories. limited skirmishes will not yield any considerable results when two equally potent air forces fight each other.best option is, Indian should not do surgical strikes but very massive pre-emptive strike deep in to Pakistani territory like 'six day war' other wise IAF will never achieve air superiority. a prior preparation is needed like practicing 3 to 4 sortie par aircraft in a day as well as intelligence about missile detonation capability and anti-aircraft system of pak. since pak has only few air bases it will be easier to struck with agni-2 along with bramhos striking AACM launchers near the border.
strike with 80 mkis and 40 mirage2000 and mig29 and mig21bisons, all backed with airborne awacs from sea in night with air refueling in air. Time of execution is very important. Air strike has to be done within 10 min after missiles struck desired targets, this will cripple the PAF for 5 to 10 hours to do any mission. Then strike with full capacity of IAF up to 2 more sorties which will break backbone of PAF fully. this time target totally on hangers and hidden storage.
The most important thing in proposed mission is intel. Israel can help a lot in this case,they could provide good intel about AACM launchers and missile launching sites of pak because they are more afraid then Indian from Pakistani missiles. Next important thing is secrecy.Strong will to carry such daring mission is needed when it comes to this type of plan.

i hope some senior member will tell me about feasibility of this plan.

Let me tell you the flaws in your plan as per military theory.

War does not consist of a single instantaneous blow

Carl Von Clausewitz "On War"​

War is always the shock of two hostile bodies in collision, not the action of a living power upon an inanimate mass

Carl Von Clausewitz "On War"​

Any plan that is based on the assumption that the enemy shall not retaliate is flawed.

 

[Super Falcon]

if we can buy best possible jets i think we can easily deny indian airsuperiority in the region

 

[muse]

Or we can build a more efficient and prosperous economy, which will enrich us such that we can train greater numbers of engineers, build world class R&D facilities and manufacture our defense equipment ourselves -- Pakistan and India are fairly closely matched in terms of capability, with India in a relatively more favorable position.

We always have to be vigilant, but we must change our ideas, it's not enough to frustrate the adversary's designs, we cannot go on living under the constant threat of the Indian - and so it seems to me that the best way to deal with this problem is to build a significantly larger and more prosperous economy and focus on technological advancement to fundamentally effect the balance of capability such that the Pakistani nation does not have live under a constant threat, that it possess the capability to take the fight to multiple enemies and defeat them on their own home ground.

Many people will think that such a thing is not possible, but everything begins with a vision and a unbendable will.

 

[Laughing Buddha]

As the VISION-2020 suggest India as a Nuclear power and IAF as a Nuclear force. India will have to acquire the capability of launching these weapons thus the delivery system for the Nuclear arsenals and to defend them. For this IAF would have a major role to play as via-air dropping is the easiest and the most common method used in wars.

Currently IAF is under development with first to acquire the force multipliers and setting up of a Nuclear Command And Post. If we take a look at the IAF's fleet of year 2020, the list would as follows-


(A) Frontline Fighters

1) (FGFA)
2) (MRCA)
3) Su-30 MKI
4) MCA (Medium Combat Aircraft) (Fighter/Bomber/Recon)
5) LCA (Light Combat Aircraft) KH-2001
6) Mig-29K (The non- carrier version)
7) Mig-27
8) Mig-21- (Fighter)
9) Jaguar (Fighter)
10) Mig-23 (Fighter)


(B) Long Range bombers and Recon aircrafts


1) MCA (Medium Combat Aircraft) (Fighter/Bomber/Recon)
2) Tu-22M3 Backfire (Bomber/Recon)
3) Mig-25 Foxbat (Recon)
4) Mirage-2000 (Bomber)
5) Mig-23 (Bomber)
6) Jaguar (Recon)
7) AVATAR (Solid Fueled Space Based) (Recon)
8) Mig-21-93 (Recon)
9) Su-30 MKI (Recon/Bomber)
10) (MRCA)


(C) Light/Heavy/Executive Transports



1) IL-76MD Candid B (Heavy Transporter)
2) IL-214 (Light Transport)
3) ATR (Light transport and Executive)
4) Dornier 228 (Light transport/Executive)
5) Boeing 737-300 (Executive)
6) Lockheed Martin C-130J Super Hercules
7) Boeing C-17 Globemaster III


(D) Force Multipliers


1) A-50 Phalcon AEW&C (A-50 Mainstay with a Israeli Phalcon radar system)
2) EMB 145 AEW&C (Airborne Early Warning & Control) jets
3) Boeing E-3 Sentry
4) IL-78 Air to ait refueling tanker
5) Boeing 737-300 Air to ait refueling tanker


(E) Combat Helicopters


1) Mi-24/25/35 Hind (Attack/Transport Version)
2) ALAH (Adavance light attack helicopter)
3) ALH (Attack Version)
4) LAH Lancer (Light Attack Helicopter)
5) ALH (Advance Light Helicopter) (Attack Version)
6) Chetak (Attack Version)
7) Mi-8/17 (Attack Version)


(F) Executive/Heavy/Light Transport Helicopters

1) Mi-26 (The Largest Helo In the world)
2) Mi-8/17 (Transport Version)
3) Mi-24/25/35 (Transport Version)
4) ALH (Advance Light Helicopter) (Transport Version)
5) Chetak/Cheetah (Transport Version)
6) Dauphin
7) LOH Light Observation Helicopter (Transport)


(G) Observation/Recon Helicopter


1) LOH (light Observation Helicopter) (Recon)
2) Mi-24/25/35 (Recon)
3) Mi-8/17 (Recon)
4) Chetak-Cheetah (Recon)
5) ALH (Advance Light Helicopter) (Recon)


(H) Combat/non-combat capable trainers



1) HJT-36 (Advance Sub/Super sonic) (Combat Capable)
2) AJT Hawk (Advance Sub/Super sonic) (Combat Capable)
3) HJT-16 Kiran (Sub-sonic)
4) Iskara (Sub-Sonic)
5) Mg-21-93UB Trainer (Sub-Super Sonic) (Combat Capable)
6) LCA KH-2001 (Trainer) (Advance Sub-Super Sonic) (Combat Capable)
7) HPT-32 (Transport Trainer)
8) Dornier 228 (Transport trainer)