PAF to retire the F-7 Fleet

[Signalian]

Does IAF conduct excercises with PLAAF? if not, then J-10 holds advantage against IAF as they have excercised against F-16's of other Air Forces.

 

[CHACHA"G"]

Tech wise it lags at few places. HMD's are in use of F-7 pilots, since these are basic interceptors ?


J-10 brings a sanction free bird. If that counts anything for PAF.

1 light, 2 medium. If you have to invest money, Why not a heavy or stealthy,.

J-31 or AZAM project will take 10 years …….. I am all in for heavy …………. "J" series will be cheaper then EFT ……. Russia will not sell us SUs...……. In the end heavy depend on availability , J-10 is available and will be cheaper then any heavy .

 

[Signalian]

J-31 or AZAM project will take 10 years …….. I am all in for heavy …………. "J" series will be cheaper then EFT ……. Russia will not sell us SUs...……. In the end heavy depend on availability , J-10 is available and will be cheaper then any heavy .

If money is in hand, its better to spend it on Heavy (EF or SU) or invest in stealthy. Russia could sell SU series, China could assist in this endeavor. Atleast get a new tech instead of replicating it.

 

[CHACHA"G"]

If money is in hand, its better to spend it on Heavy (EF or SU) or invest in stealthy. Russia could sell SU series, China could assist in this endeavor. Atleast get a new tech instead of replicating it.

That will be dream come true...…… But Is PAF ready ? ………… Money is one extra issue ….. Replacing Mirages with heavy will do wonders for PAF...….
Best wishes and prays for Pakistan and PAF...…..

 

[帅的一匹]

Yes Sir is denying these rumours, he was kind enough to give me a detail reply on the issue.
Posting Sir Kaiser Tufail's reply with his kind permission.

''I have gone sick of answering irresponsible posts on FB regarding the high attrition rate of F-7P/PG, that is is murder, that the PAF is being run by incompetent people, and so on.
The airframe design of the F-7 may be old, and the airframe life may be less than Western fighters, but that does not mean that the PAF is pushing thr airframe life limits. When the life is finished, another life cycle is permitted after a complete overhaul. All air forces do that.

How has this issue of F-7P/PG being difficult aircraft to fly come up? These are the simplest aircraft to fly. Absolutely uncomplicated. And they are not old. I have already posted a number of times, that our F-16s are 35 years old. The F-7PG are only 16 years old. The USAF B-52 is 65 years old. The F-15s are 45 years old.
I have flown all tyoes of fighters and grant me this much that I can comment on their performance better than these so called social media experts.

We have come down from 50 major accidents for every 10,000 hrs of flying in 1950s to less than ONE accident per 10,000 hrs. We have had two years with ZERO accidents. Fatalties are part of the game.
We don't even know if it was pilot error, but everyone is quick to blame the aircraft.
Do social media 'experts' know that pilots who fly the F-7 have the lowest experience on fighters. All newbies. So it is natural for them to experience more accidents than pilots on Mirages and F-16s who have at least 1,000 hrs experience.''

PAF may induct L15 advanced trainer.

 

[POPEYE-Sailor]

finally 2nd generation aircraft retired..!! الحَمْد لله‎‎

 

[araz]

Ahem, several sources reporting this, have sent a query to AHQ, let's see.

It would make sense however 4 squadrons cannot be retired just like that. I guess the plan would be to retire them as soon as practical.
A

Not again.

Refurbished. second-hand. used. old.

Agreed likely just for spares. PAF has Libyan M3s in storage that have a lot less hours but firstly only around 9-10 birds and secondly it will still take them 3-6 months to bring them online. So nothing is going to happen soon.
A

Only way I can see is if PAF is hinting towards a quick order and delivery of J-10C' even 40-50 units will be good enough to replace all J-7/PGs .

Bhai no money in the coffers. We are having difficulties paying off the interest on the loans we have. This is unlikely to improve in the next 3-5 yrs.

A

 

[Tps43]

It would make sense however 4 squadrons cannot be retired just like that. I guess the plan would be to retire them as soon as practical.
A


Agreed likely just for spares. PAF has Libyan M3s in storage that have a lot less hours but firstly only around 9-10 birds and secondly it will still take them 3-6 months to bring them online. So nothing is going to happen soon.
A


Bhai no money in the coffers. We are having difficulties paying off the interest on the loans we have. This is unlikely to improve in the next 3-5 yrs.

A

Mirage will most probably come for spares nothing else and PG's are new with limited BVR capability the only sqn which needs immediate replacement is 18 sqn as they still are operating F 7P and FT 7P.
No 17,20 and 23 are still ok and will be with us around 2028.

 

[araz]

I had enough of it...……… Why people and PAF don't realize no matter what they do Mirages have to go...… We may have 5 to 10 years window so why not buy new bird and start replacing them …….. J-10C(P) can do wonders and we can use 5 to 10 years time window to build the numbers (120+)….
China Air force have 100s of J-10 and J-10 is their main bird ,,,,, They will invest heavy in this bird to upgrade it (R&D),,,,, PAF will safe many billion$$$ for that..... People need to look at JF-17 block III , how hard it is for PAF to get the goodies(R&D) required for block 11

Only having JF-17 will be suicide……….. It will be losing war before it even start ……. JF-17 is Great Light Bird at max …….. We need single engine Medium Bird and then heavy (twin engine)….

It is a 3 billion dollar question and of money which you dont have.
Egyptian M3s will be spares so 30 million or so.
A

 

[AbuzarIlyas]

PAF may induct L15 advanced trainer.

because F-7PG is currently serving as a transition aircraft from K-8 to Mirages, Thunders etc. A LIFT aircraft is needed to introduce a new training regime in PAF which will have its own advantages to harvest.

 

[khanasifm]

Nothing new this was the plan for decades the question is by ??

 

[CHACHA"G"]

It is a 3 billion dollar question and of money which you dont have.
Egyptian M3s will be spares so 30 million or so.
A

If we keep saving those 3 billion One day will come when we wont be able to fly Mirages (or any other old bird because it will be useless) … We like it or not , we have money or not we have to make a decision now ….. Train already left the station ,,, IAF already way ahead …… Now we have lot of catching up to do..
Sir , We have to arrange that money by any means possible ……

 

[Gryphon]

Mirage will most probably come for spares nothing else and PG's are new with limited BVR capability the only sqn which needs immediate replacement is 18 sqn as they still are operating F 7P and FT 7P.

Another JF-17 Block II squadron is being raised this year, so that would probably be the end of F-7P/FT-7P.

Regarding F-7PG/FT-7PG, it appears PAF is using these for compensating the lack of a LIFT, which explains the extra flying hours & high attrition. The PG squadrons continued losing strength but the previous leadership kept telling us they wouldn't buy a LIFT - that it was overrated and the manufacturers had added too much.



I have heard rumours about R-Darter being used with PG and ROSE Mirages, and MAA-1A Piranha by the latter, but never got a confirmation. Is this true?

@Knuckles

No 17,20 and 23 are still ok and will be with us around 2028.

Assuming F-7PG's stay for 10 more years, which aircraft would the JF-17 Block III replace? I don't think it will be the Mirage as those have higher payload + range and over the years PAF has modified them for ground attack role (like IAF Jaguar's) with integration of Raad, Mectron MAR-1 ARM, etc.

 

[araz]

If we keep saving those 3 billion One day will come when we wont be able to fly Mirages (or any other old bird because it will be useless) … We like it or not , we have money or not we have to make a decision now ….. Train already left the station ,,, IAF already way ahead …… Now we have lot of catching up to do..
Sir , We have to arrange that money by any means possible ……

You do realize that there is a limit to which a country will lend you money. Our current financial rating is bad and China will not lend you money for arms. They may lend you for infrastructure and industrial build up as it generates revenue. The present Government has done the round with the begging bowl just now and you want to buy 3 billion worth of arms. Your current deficit is a gaping 19 Billion. Unless you rectify that you wont have a country left worth fighting for. As for IAF currently they will take upto 2023 to induct and till 2025 to become comfy with the Rafale. If we order 2021 in case of financial stability we will still maintain parity. So whether we like it or not the next couple of years are going to be pretty barren for PAF apart from JFTs.
A

 

[LKJ86]

J-31 or AZAM project will take 10 years …….. I am all in for heavy …………. "J" series will be cheaper then EFT ……. Russia will not sell us SUs...……. In the end heavy depend on availability , J-10 is available and will be cheaper then any heavy .

There are no so-called "J"-series fighter aircrafts.
In fact, when any fighter aircraft is made in China and services in PLAAF or PLAN, it would get the name "J-xx", just like "F-xx" in USA.