PAF T-37 Trainer Jet Crashes near Swabi

[air marshal]

May Allah rest his Soul in Peace. Ameen.

 

[Blackpearl]

Hey me A Gikan student

Would u please stop Mr.Blackwater?

U need to regret most of paras not only 3 and 5 para 4 is also an idiot comment ok?

Well instead of condolence u r giving bad comments to That Young Man(Martyred)?

U should have shame.

Secondly,If u r fair enemy of Sir Raja Jahanzeb(martyred)and have bad feelings for him,atleast go away from here but dont dont pass bad comments about him ok?




Best of Luck

May His Soul Rest In Peace.

Sir,
My post no 8 refers above,
I have already regretted my comments.
Today, in the Newspaper "The Dawn", i have read the whole story.
Pilot Officer Jahanzeb, has embraced coveted martyrdom.

Para 4, post #2, i have clearly mentioned that these all are speculations. Fighter pilots have a characteristics arrogant attitude. I havenot said that, those betting in mess, actually performed that thrilling manoeuvre. Yet, i have seen myself, pilots doing adrenaline-charged, nerve-racking acrobats, again typical of a fighter pilot.

I never had any animosity toward Jahanzeb, which i think had been missinterpreted. All i need to say, as in earlier posts, that.....

PAF should focus on following
1. Better training of pilots in BFT (Basic Flying Training), to handle serious inflight emergencies.

2. Again i say, T-37 is older technology, must replace it with a new aircraft.

3. Or atleast, replace its integral Ejection seat. The ejection seat is unique in this aircraft that, two Ejection Pull Handles are on the sides of the seat. Pilot has to pull the handles, applying an equal and simultanous force on both the handles, otherwise, canopy jettison cartridges will not fire. Looks easy, yet try doing in moving in a plane travelling at 450 km/hr, all instruments needle winding back, cockpit filled with caution lights and alarm sound, and aircraft half inverted. All modern seat have single Ejection pull handle, between legs or above the head, so pilot under stress, can use one hand (his other arm may be injured), or can't reach up, still egress is made easy.

4. Finally, I would request, PAF authorities, to conduct a full inquiry, and establish the real cause, sequence of events, that led to the loss of a precious life, and recommend measures, that must be implemented so as to make training flying more safe.

I think, i have made my point clear.

 

[x_man]

The formation of 2 x T-37s was on a routine mission with Leader flying ahead and student formatting on his wing. To give student practice from all angles, formation mission starts with right wing first (student on right), then left wing and when he is comfortable, he is moved into slot position (behind leaders aircraft). While Jahanzeb was instructed to move into slot, as he slided back, he didn’t give any call and the leader spotted smoke and wreckage on the ground. Most like cause of the accident is loss of control of aircraft as student moved behind leaders aircraft; he entered into jetwash (high speed gases from engines exhaust) of the leaders aircraft ,lost control and couldn’t recover.

Now gentlemen, this is the initial belief and could be proved wrong later when final findings are found by the Accident Investigating board. Hitting jetwash is very critical even for an experienced pilot and if one is student pilot: it can be fatal.

Ironically, till the time aircrafts are flying, they will keep falling from the sky. Despite limited resources, old aircrafts and economically constrained environments’, PAF is doing a wonderful job to keep these birds in air and maintain the operational readiness that is expected from it. No doubt T-37 is an old aircraft and needs replacement, but right now airforces priority is fighters, no doubt that training aircrafts have gone in a bit background.

God bless Jahanzeb’s soul who laid his life for his country. And in respect of the departed soul, please stop cursing and blaming other forum members for the remarks they have already apologised for.

PS. T-37s ejection seat is still very effective and hasn't disappointed any pilot who has pulled the handles !!!

 

[fatman17]

the t-bird is going to fly for a few more years till more K-8s are inducted. that is why PAF is trying to negotiate with S-Korea for engines and spares for their retired T-37s.

 

[no SunShine]

Dear Mike Bennett

I am Raja Jahanzeb Amin's cousin and i can confirm the sad news and his name!

he did a very brave thing and all of us ( family ) are very proud of him!

 

[no SunShine]

@ post # 18/x_man!

U hav no idea! shame on U for jumpin 2 conclusions!

Jahanzeb's plane caught fire and he could have ejected, but saw the building's and few people underneath, so he tried to manouvre the plane away from the buildings and in trying to do so, he succeeded and paid with his life!

how do i know this all?
here is a link to his profile on orkut, where a few eye witnesses hav posted their thanks!
[ unfortunately i cant paste the URL of his scrapbook, The following errors occurred when this message was submitted 1. You are only allowed to post URLs once you have at least 5 posts. ]

one of the eye witnesse's is quoted saying that he saw a plane which had caught fire and was headed for the labs and other buildings ( which were full of students that time ) he says i ran for my life, thinking its gonna crash in the buildings, but the pilot glided it on to the road between the buildings and in doing so, lost his life!

also, his last words recorded by the tower were, " maa ko salam deyna! " ( say salam to my mother! )

if you still think, that his plane caught the fumes of another plane and he crashed straightaway, then i cant comment any further!

i have written what i know! even Islam and humanity tell us not 2 reach conclusions UNLESS we have a solid ground!


Salaam

 

[no SunShine]

@ Blackwater, jus read Ur comments now!

truly shame on U!
who are you? are you Najoomi? do U know ilm e ghaib?
how dare you jump to conclusions? and unlike other people, U jump 2 such offending conclusions??

what do U expect? he will call a girl frm his cell fone, frm the plane and tell her come outside m flyin by? or ask her to get ready, so he can come and give her a lift?
what kinda insane soul are ya?

1) he was alone in the cockpit!
2)yes he was a flight cadet, on a solo training mission ( you dont even know that much and yet you make such horrendous accusations/conclusions?? )
3)wtf?? has he got a loudspeaker? so he can announce..hey its me, Jahanzeb, look at me i am doing manouvres? wudnt his instructor in the other plane see him doing so?
close to the grounds?? wth?? he was in air! not doing any tricks!! jus tryin to stay calm and do the GREATER benefit, save countless lives, not unlike Ur sorry azz eject and then say sorry.. i killed U all.. at least i saved maself! what kinda sick mind do you have?? instead of hailin him as a hero, wth are U jumpin at? if Ur such a lowlife and hav this cheap thinkin, do consider other's can be patriotic and can give their lives for this nation!! this country is full of heroes, BUT unfortunately its only sickminded people like yourself who R in the headlines! the heroes always stay behind, cuz ppl like U take all the limelight!
4)U n Ur speculations! i bet U were one of those people who would bet hav bet in the mess, and then wud do manouvres over super markets? isnt it? Alhamdulillah.. he wasn't like this!
5)OMG! U hav lost it!! mannnnnn.. i dun even wanna answer that, BUT.. i have to.. as U dint listen to what the Giki students said, " THEY WERE SURE PLANE WAS GONNA CRASH IN THE FACULTY BUILDINGS, IT WAS ONLY Jahanzeb's QUICK THINKING AND ABILITY TO MANUOVRE, THAT HE WAS ABLE TO SAVE THEIR LIVES!! "
6)WOWWWWW.. U think.. PAF guys R fools? they wouldnt tell the cadets the first thing? how to get out of plane? my GOD.. what kinda mentally retarded person R U? thats the first thing to tell, before letting sumone fly a plane.. my GODD!! go n drown Urself! Ur a disgrace to Pakistani People!
7 & 8) i dun know about that, but Jahanzeb once told other cousins that the PAF planes were really shabby, once he was goin on a mission and abt 2 take off.. when the plane lost one of its wheels.. so that shud b enuff insight on what kinda planes our PAF is runnin, but still they R doin a magnificent job!
9)U talk about nation, taxpayers and answers?
well.. i dun think, they wud be much worried abt the answers, cuz they hav to worry abt dimwitts like U! who hav no idea of a certain issue and yet, he comes, jumps 2 conclusions and sounds like he knows everything!
and
10) i think the PAF shud remove all its radars, they dun need them, they shud appoint U.. U can not only predict what's going to happen, U can also tell the reasons of its happening.. ( i won't be surprised if Ur reasons wud involve female students of GIKI! )

Salaam..

( frm a hurt cousin of a true hero n a Martyr! )

 

[x_man]

Frhan2u…I am sorry for the loss of your cousin and not only me but anyone who heard the news, admires the courage of Jahanzeb and feels sorry for loss of such a young and courageous soul.

As far as my jumping to conclusion part is concerned, I wrote in my post that these are initial findings based on the statements of the formation leader (instructor) and it might prove wrong once the Accident investigation board finalises its findings. If there was any fire while he was formating, it must have been seen by the leader or reported by Jahanzeb. Fire also could have started as soon as he went to slot(rear) position where leader cannot see him and Jahanzeb did not have the time to give the call and report the fire. Again, it could be anyones guess till the time final enquiry is done and causes established.

As you mentioned fumes, I want to correct you here that these are not merely fumes. Jet engine exhaust can be very problematic and severely effects aircrafts controllability, if one comes directly behind it. It can topple your aircraft, can flame out engines because of disturbed airflow around them, and especially if pilot is of less experience, can prove to be fatal. Majority of military and even civilian pilots experience this phenomenon at some part of their career and many have lost lives due to this. Wake turbulence is turbulence that forms behind an aircraft as it passes through the air. This turbulence includes various components, the most important of which are wingtip vortices and jetwash. Jetwash refers simply to the rapidly moving gasses expelled from a jet engine; it is extremely turbulent, but of short duration. Just consider the below link, where a huge aircraft like Airbus 300 fell from the sky after experiencing wake turbulence from the front aircraft and the pilots wrong actions led to this disaster.

http://www.planecrashinfo.com/2001/2001-57.htm

In no way I intended to undermine Jahanzeb’s shahadat, he was a brave soul and despite being low on experience and in a very difficult situation, he managed to save many many lives on the ground by sacrificing his own…Hats off to him and God bless his soul.

 

[Muradk]

photos of the crash.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Another air crash---a young man loses his life---all kinds of speculations and scenarios---niether x-man nor did blackwater are prejudiced in making their observations.

We are a defence related forum---before or after any incidence, we are going to talk about the issue---that is what we do here---we, neccessarily donot wait for the results to come out but rather we throw the ball and let it bounce around and that is how we get different opinions. Now some opinions are likeable and some are not. That does not mean the person who gave the wrong opinion is wrong---it is just that there are so many scenarios---.

It is late 70's---a friend of mine is training for a pilots license at multan airport. My house is right close to the air port. An accident takes place in the air. Two cessnas collide in mid air---fall on a house in the village---pilot or pilots were killed. An average person would say didn't see the other---sun got in the eyes---things like that---no---nothing like that---they were horse playing or one was horse playing---one pilot started tailing the other real close---playing the game of chicken---the pilot in the rear got so close that its propeller chopped the tail of the cessna in the front---there was evidence on the tail of the fallen cessna---there was evidence on the prop of the 2nd cessna.

Horse play or gamesmanship is real. Incidently we have fresh members here---some of them witnesses of the scene and a family member as well and that changes every thing. Now look at you fresh members over here. Something drastic had to happen for you to come up with your observations. Otherwise we never knew that you existed even. You saw the wrong analysis and and that made you step out of the shadows. Sometimes, that is how the witnesses come forward.

So, welcome aboard--even if it is under extreme duress. And Allah bless the young man.

 

[fatman17]

Jane's Defence Weekly

Pakistani Cessna crashes
Gareth Jennings Jane's Aviation Reporter-London

The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has announced that a Cessna T-37 two-seat trainer aircraft crashed in the northwest region of the country on 22 January.

According to the PAF, the aircraft was on a routine training mission when it came down approximately 120 km northwest of the capital Islamabad, killing the one pilot on board. (Is one pilot on board a routine operating procedure?)

Local media reports have suggested that a civilian on the ground was also killed when he was hit by falling debris.

The cause of the accident is not yet known and the PAF has launched an investigation.

The T-37 has been operated by the PAF since 1962 and Jane's believes that the PAF had 36 of the type in service before this latest accident.

A Turkish Air Force T-37 crashed during a routine training flight on 21 September 2007. Both crew ejected safely.

 

[Gikian]

Gikain here.Well well well Mr.Blackwater OK Thats fine well but U shld have thought for future for what u saying.

Well and yeas??Mr Jahanzeb is really a hero and if u say abt ur 4th point i may say wid closed eyes that Mr.jahanzeb(Martyred)can neva be like that.

May his soul rest in peace Ameen.

 

[TechMan]

Following letter was published in DAWN on 25th Jan 08
Link Gikians salute the pilot
----------------------------------------------------

ON Jan 22 there was an incident here that substantially changed my way of thinking. A Pakistan Air Force trainer plane crashed inside Ghulam Ishaq Khan Institute), Topi premises. The pilot and a gardener died on the spot. There was no other loss of life or property.

Further analysis (and some witness reports) revealed that the trainee pilot's quick thinking had prevented loss of 300 + lives and damage to faculty buildings.

The pilot, instead of ejecting from the plane when he knew it was going to crash, manoeuvred the plane and kept it on the (narrow) road away from the buildings and places nearby, where students hang out during the day.

Had he ejected from the plane, he would most probably have survived but the crash site was surrounded by buildings in which 300 + people were working/studying at the time, a lot would have been lost. In short, he sacrificed his life to prevent the loss of other lives.

It is incidents such as these that force you to think about...well, about everything. And this time it got me thinking about his selfless act.

It is only the former leader of the army who had lowered the army in the eyes of the civilian population. The truth of the matter is that our army is willing to sacrifice for the country. They stand ever ready to defend our homeland from any harm.

It also made me think that it is really not a leader who makes all the difference. This single man had saved 300 + lives. It made me realise that every day people can also be heroes.

They can also do big things.

And they can make a difference. If the pilot would have started blaming the engineers and the government for old planes with mechanical faults, there would not have been enough time for him to think and act as he did. We are too lazy and love to put the blame on others.

From now on, I resolve to change my lifestyle to favour growth and prosperity of Pakistan. I resolve to be honest, devoted and respectful and to deliver what I promise. May Allah grant me the strength to do so.

Maybe one day I will be a hero and I will make a difference. Until then, I live on in the hope that the day will soon come. Lastly, we Gikians salute the pilot for his selfless act. May Allah rest his soul in peace. Ameen. UMER JAWAID GIKI student (Electronic Engineer)

 

[fatman17]

Following letter was published in DAWN on 25th Jan 08
Link Gikians salute the pilot
----------------------------------------------------

ON Jan 22 there was an incident here that substantially changed my way of thinking. A Pakistan Air Force trainer plane crashed inside Ghulam Ishaq Khan Institute), Topi premises. The pilot and a gardener died on the spot. There was no other loss of life or property.

Further analysis (and some witness reports) revealed that the trainee pilot's quick thinking had prevented loss of 300 + lives and damage to faculty buildings.

The pilot, instead of ejecting from the plane when he knew it was going to crash, manoeuvred the plane and kept it on the (narrow) road away from the buildings and places nearby, where students hang out during the day.

Had he ejected from the plane, he would most probably have survived but the crash site was surrounded by buildings in which 300 + people were working/studying at the time, a lot would have been lost. In short, he sacrificed his life to prevent the loss of other lives.

It is incidents such as these that force you to think about...well, about everything. And this time it got me thinking about his selfless act.

It is only the former leader of the army who had lowered the army in the eyes of the civilian population. The truth of the matter is that our army is willing to sacrifice for the country. They stand ever ready to defend our homeland from any harm.

It also made me think that it is really not a leader who makes all the difference. This single man had saved 300 + lives. It made me realise that every day people can also be heroes.

They can also do big things.

And they can make a difference. If the pilot would have started blaming the engineers and the government for old planes with mechanical faults, there would not have been enough time for him to think and act as he did. We are too lazy and love to put the blame on others.

From now on, I resolve to change my lifestyle to favour growth and prosperity of Pakistan. I resolve to be honest, devoted and respectful and to deliver what I promise. May Allah grant me the strength to do so.

Maybe one day I will be a hero and I will make a difference. Until then, I live on in the hope that the day will soon come. Lastly, we Gikians salute the pilot for his selfless act. May Allah rest his soul in peace. Ameen. UMER JAWAID GIKI student (Electronic Engineer)

well said young man!
i wish u all the best.

 

[su-47]

Following letter was published in DAWN on 25th Jan 08
Link Gikians salute the pilot
----------------------------------------------------

ON Jan 22 there was an incident here that substantially changed my way of thinking. A Pakistan Air Force trainer plane crashed inside Ghulam Ishaq Khan Institute), Topi premises. The pilot and a gardener died on the spot. There was no other loss of life or property.

Further analysis (and some witness reports) revealed that the trainee pilot's quick thinking had prevented loss of 300 + lives and damage to faculty buildings.

The pilot, instead of ejecting from the plane when he knew it was going to crash, manoeuvred the plane and kept it on the (narrow) road away from the buildings and places nearby, where students hang out during the day.

Had he ejected from the plane, he would most probably have survived but the crash site was surrounded by buildings in which 300 + people were working/studying at the time, a lot would have been lost. In short, he sacrificed his life to prevent the loss of other lives.

It is incidents such as these that force you to think about...well, about everything. And this time it got me thinking about his selfless act.

It is only the former leader of the army who had lowered the army in the eyes of the civilian population. The truth of the matter is that our army is willing to sacrifice for the country. They stand ever ready to defend our homeland from any harm.

It also made me think that it is really not a leader who makes all the difference. This single man had saved 300 + lives. It made me realise that every day people can also be heroes.

They can also do big things.

And they can make a difference. If the pilot would have started blaming the engineers and the government for old planes with mechanical faults, there would not have been enough time for him to think and act as he did. We are too lazy and love to put the blame on others.

From now on, I resolve to change my lifestyle to favour growth and prosperity of Pakistan. I resolve to be honest, devoted and respectful and to deliver what I promise. May Allah grant me the strength to do so.

Maybe one day I will be a hero and I will make a difference. Until then, I live on in the hope that the day will soon come. Lastly, we Gikians salute the pilot for his selfless act. May Allah rest his soul in peace. Ameen. UMER JAWAID GIKI student (Electronic Engineer)

Hats off to your excellent post Techman!

May god bless the soul of the pilot who so selflessly sacrificed his own life to prevent so many others dying. He died in the spirit of a soldier and his family and the whole nation can be proud of him.