PAF Pilots To Be Honoured

[TheTallGuy]

Respectfully, @The Deterrent it is a request please add something constructive other then poster "not happened that day" after all after 6000 post and think tank analyst. expectation was you would help bring broader - clear picture.

@Mangus Ortus Novem
I sell cars...in africa

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

In some ways your statement is correct but I am sure that we also have learnt a lot about the tactics of the other side as well.
Secondly it will also depend on how IAF are going to analyze our tactics and vice versa.

He is like Peter Pan. He neither learns anything new nor unlearns what he has already learnt - Jinnah on Nehru

Airomerix Sb,
This is what i have concluded... IAF surely seem missing 8 x aircraft from 27th Feb Battle. this is all OSINT compiling indians narrative and Pakistani Narrative..

1st aircraft missing. Su-30MKI was shot down on or near LOC 1 x pilot/wso in our custody Sqn Ldr - Possibily sikh. body returned via Red Cross..as i am sure we dont have it but we have taken liberty to preserve his belongings for future disclosure.. (reason - F-16)

2nd Aircraft missing. Su-30MKI in IOK both pilot/WSO dead - later indians have confirmed them to be killed in car accident.(reason - F-16)

3rd aircraft missing. Su-30MKI killed in IOK (Rajnikanth over Div HQ.) Crew ejected - he is the one to be awarded soon. (Reason of been awarded soon - F-16)

4th aircraft missing. MiG-21BISON that took off from Srinagar (possible wingman) of W/C Abhi..crashed near Srinager AFB due to Technical Fault. (Possible Techincal cause - JF17/F-16s)

5th aircraft missing. MiG-21BISON of W/C.Abhi which we have the wreckage at kotla. (Indian Agree MIA due to F-16)

6th aircraft missing. MiG-21BISON last seen over raisi...(never landed back - reason - F-16)

7th aircraft missing. 1st Mirage 2000i on CAP near Shadra - (missing - reason JF17 (Possibly flown by Ghair mulki) since we have the pilot so wreckage must be with us. since this area is up north long way a part from Rajaouri where the action was.

8th aircraft missing: 2nd Mirage 2000i on CAP near Shadra - (missing also reason JF17 (Possibly flown by Ghair Mulki) since the pilot got injured but alive. same area as above 1st Mirage 2000i gone missing.

I would request ask your sources..please lets find the missing aircraft one by one. have a plausible reason if they are not missing..as i understand Indian Army deployed whole division on ground cut off all communication of locals and went for search and searched for 2-3 days. they were not searching for Yetis right!

@The Eagle @Tps43 @MastanKhan @Hakikat ve Hikmet @Mangus Ortus Novem @Windjammer

The number of blows can’t be counted during a fist fight - a Turkish saying

Quite nice scenario!

What happened on the ground is equally important. Was quite fierece affair... Sialkot Sector saw action too... not all just on LoC... ground affair that is.

What matters they did not come back... and now they have a patch of their own... How to Avoid Pak Missile....something for everyone I guess.

Hopefully, indians would come to their sense and stop this Monkey business... the only way out for them is talks.

WE can finally move forward on our economic and social development.

In a way when there is no Hegemon... the danger of conflict becomes more.... Perhaps this is also somehting to think about.

Our fundamental strategy has paid off i.e. to make war very very difficult for indians... if not totally impossible.

It paid off at every level. Hopefully, we won't become cocky and keep our head cool and our feet firmly on the ground.

You, youngman, keep digging... seems you have a nack for it!

Salesman...? I thought that's what you said... one wonders what goods you sell....

I am personally more for those 50 folks - Marwari/Parsi/Jain etc. - who control 70% of Indi’s wealth!!! They have now got Rafaels unchallenged!!! Hopefully, they’re enough to modulate Hindutuva/RSS etc....

But at least the number of kills (unofficial) should be out and discussed may be just for the sake of humiliating Indians and Modi.

As for the humiliation part, leave it to Uncle Trump, the ultimate American CEO!!! Nothing maddens them more (almost to the physical level) than the promises not kept, performances not delivered etc. from the subordinates on their payroll.....

Why were indians so quick to jump the escallation ladder straight to bloody missiles targeting karachi and etc.
Sanp songh gaya tha kya?
Two aircraft is like a pinprick needle.
Inkay sath aur bohat hand kiye hain PAF and company nay.
Although even 6 aircraft being shot down is no justification for a missile attack.

IMO they felt it like a capitulation!!! And, some reels from very old movies started to roll in their minds - Muhammed bin Kasim, Sultan Mahmoud, Kutubeddin Aybek, Alemgir Aurangazeb, EbdAli etc.....

 

[Talon]

We never got to know the kinematics for R-77 or MICA either.

@Tps43 @Hodor @Dazzler @The Deterrent @Windjammer

Interesting part is that the narrative “assumed” over the years about future air combat over the subcontinent as some bloodbath for our side or in general with missiles flying in the air all over never takes into account the catlike caution taken on RoE from both sides.

The OODA loop always trumps any technology or numbers.

Well atleast we saw Fox Three from our side.

As far as RoE is concerned,in my opinion there's no RoE in war as we observed in Air Engagement of 27-2 and as we saw India was ready to open hell via ballistic missiles,they only stopped because we threatened them of counter attack in time and involved some mutual Papa of both countries.

From Turkey-Russia incident I was of believe that shooting down one or two aircrafts doesn't start a war.But again,its India and Pakistan you can expect anything.

Pakistan gov and military gave us the perfect example of OODA Loop,they did not respond right after the Indian violation on 26th,rather waited for the morning to access the damage and then acted accordingly.While India just decides and Acts and that's the reason they lost.

That is my worry too, PAF exposed a lot of its tactics and signatures to IAF on February 27th. I do realize that there was no better way of getting the required job done, but it doesn't bode well for us regarding a future conflict.

The only tactic I think we gave up is the way we used AWACS and EW equipment.But I am sure that the airforce that flies even on public holidays has many tactics up its sleeves.

As far as signatures are concerned,do you know why Mirages penetrated so easily and didn't get detected in time?

 

[untitled]

Well atleast we saw Fox One from our side.

Indians were able to fire a missile?

 

[Talon]

Indians were able to fire a missile?

I said from our side.

 

[untitled]

I said from our side.

Correct me if I am wrong, Fox One is for semi active missiles like AIM-7

 

[Talon]

In some ways your statement is correct but I am sure that we also have learnt a lot about the tactics of the other side as well.
Secondly it will also depend on how IAF are going to analyze our tactics and vice versa.

I once visited an ADA Hut,I was astonished how much we already know about them.

Correct me if I am wrong, Fox One is for semi active missiles like AIM-7

Fox one is used for radar guided missiles (aim 7 or aim120). I should have said fox three,proper term for aim120,my bad.

 

[thinkingcap81]

We never got to know the kinematics for R-77 or MICA either.

You will, if as claimed, the 2nd IAF pilot is in your custody and is in a position to reveal details.

Do you believe that you have our pilot in your custody?

 

[Deathstar]

I am an Indian , PAF completely humiliated us , lost all FOBs aircrafts , northern army command destroyed while we just manage to down some trees

 

[TheTallGuy]

You will

There was the reason why F-16s were perched at 35-40k R77 have not very good snap up range. who told us that REDFLAG my Dear REDFLAG. Su-30MKI and R77s were decoded in 2008. full eleven years have past! tactics developed and put into practice.

I am an Indian , PAF completely humiliated us , lost all FOBs aircrafts , northern army command destroyed while we just manage to down some trees

No FOB was attacked but green pine or sword fish radar is kaboomed! now where? my guess is KG top! anybody know where is KG Top in IOK.

the 2nd IAF pilot is in your custody and is in a position to reveal details.

Do you believe that you have our pilot in your custody?

We had the 2nd Pilot of Indian Origin. he died. body returned via red cross.

 

[The Deterrent]

Respectfully, @The Deterrent it is a request please add something constructive other then poster "not happened that day" after all after 6000 post and think tank analyst. expectation was you would help bring broader - clear picture.

@Mangus Ortus Novem
I sell cars...in africa

I have added plenty of constructive content on the events of February. I simply tend to call out BS when I see it, and have some fun while doing so.

No FOB was attacked but green pine or sword fish radar is kaboomed! now where? my guess is KG top! anybody know where is KG Top in IOK.

The only tactic I think we gave up is the way we used AWACS and EW equipment.But I am sure that the airforce that flies even on public holidays has many tactics up its sleeves.

As far as signatures are concerned,do you know why Mirages penetrated so easily and didn't get detected in time?

PAF will have much more to lose in a future conflict when IAF will adopt comprehensive ECMs across the board. Thats why exposing EW tactics for a smaller scale operation might not turn out to be in PAF's favor in the future.
The situation is somewhat analogous to the PAF bombing raids of IAF FOBs in '65 and '71. Today, IAF bases are extremely well protected by SAMs and extensively use fortification and camouflage. PAF would find it extremely difficult to successfully strike an IAF base (i.e. anti-airfield ops).

Is it the same reason they had to go in much further, despite the H4's comms pod having an LoS range of >100km at optimum altitude?

 

[Maxpane]

 

[thinkingcap81]

IAF will have much more to lose in a future conflict when IAF will adopt comprehensive ECMs across the board. Thats why exposing EW tactics for a smaller scale operation might not turn out to be in PAF's favor in the future.
The situation is somewhat analogous to the PAF bombing raids of IAF FOBs in '65 and '71. Today, IAF bases are extremely well protected by SAMs and extensively use fortification and camouflage. PAF would find it extremely difficult to successfully strike an IAF base (i.e. anti-airfield ops).

Do you think that IAF did not expect the scale of PAF response and hence was unprepared?

IAF said that they detected multiple PAF aircraft getting airborne. So was the response time for IAF inadequate or was it not possible to get an adequate response ready?

Is it the same reason they had to go in much further, despite the H4's comms pod having an LoS range of >100km at optimum altitude?

How did they manage to penetrate? IAF defence was not active? Was some jamming by IAF present?

 

[Dazzler]

Do you think that IAF did not expect the scale of PAF response and hence was unprepared?

IAF said that they detected multiple PAF aircraft getting airborne. So was the response time for IAF inadequate or was it not possible to get an adequate response ready?



How did they manage to penetrate? IAF defence was not active? Was some jamming by IAF present?

We're you living in a cave all this time?

For the last three days straight, I see zdk flying very low during late hours followed by two thunders but in a loss formation. Are they up to something?

 

[TheTallGuy]

Do you think that IAF did not expect the scale of PAF response and hence was unprepared?

IAF said that they detected multiple PAF aircraft getting airborne. So was the response time for IAF inadequate or was it not possible to get an adequate response ready?

How did they manage to penetrate? IAF defence was not active? Was some jamming by IAF present?

No As per our esteemed Think Tank Analyists & ACM Sb @The Deterrent @pakistanipower your FOB were on Holiday, who ever that was fly at the moment were in lala land and those 2 x aircraft (MiG-21 & Su-30MKI) were playing "lets lock him haha i lock him oh he lock me...oh" because its a big NO to shoot any Indian Aircraft. as per @airomerix

SO..27th Feb 19 never happened!

We're you living in a cave all this time?

For the last three days straight, I see zdk flying very low during late hours followed by two thunders but in a loss formation. Are they up to something?

may getting ready for Indian response never seen or heard before....they are afraid cat is getting out the bag!