PAF journey to excellence

[PakShaheen79]

Thanks for article now I am also looking for Sir MuradK's answer to learn even more.

 

[Muradk]

No that is not true there was no base commander at that time only 3 officers stayed back for the same reason if they can repair these 3 can do something if not support ground forces which we did during our last days, The runway was 9 inches thick Army engg did there best but it was not enough.
Lets assume we would have made the runway that night, We didn't have bunkers to save the sabers days before everyone left IAF with all there might bombed the crap out of us in the night, PAF was 100% sure that we lost all aircraft and runway in the morning it was the other way round they missed the runway and all the sabers. God knows what they were shooting at I can understand during night specially no lights pitch Dark not even a candle on they could have missed us but these guys were pros they hit us every day so dark or no dark they knew were we were but still missed us, The damage was done on the 6th hunters in the morning tore up the runway. The Beaver took off on a road inside the base, The same road Dilawar took off with his saber earlier to catch a Hunter.

 

[Muradk]

One more question:

Who is AVM Salimuddin?? June 2009 article from Aeroplane magazine

Great article.

Aeroplane (June 2009)

Aeroplane (June 2009)

Aeroplane (June 2009)

other MM Alam who else is in this photograph here:

Aeroplane (June 2009)

Aeroplane (June 2009)

Thank you for the article never saw them.
Yar you have the article in-front of you Salimuddin is salimuddin and the people you want to know I mean the pilots.

Dreamer would you kindly tell our friend the names. Thank you

All the writeup is already documented in Various books but these kids did a good job keeping PAF memories alive. Excellent job I my self have not seen or read them yet.

 

[shr_bwp]

MuradK Sahib you forgot to reply to this question:

Let me ask you: who has your squadron's gun camera films? I assume all of you had them with you when you left for Burma - the Indians have released the Boyra shootdown film - I do not understand the PAF's reluctance to release your or West Pakistan gun camera film -not for a tit for tat - but only because they may great images....
.......

 

[shr_bwp]

..snip Salimuddin is salimuddin and the people you want to know I mean the pilots.

...snip.

I thought that I would ask because the photo featured prominently on the magazine article is the same exact one that you use for your ID on this forum.....he must mean a lot for you to his photo

 

[Muradk]

MuradK Sahib you forgot to reply to this question:

Let me ask you: who has your squadron's gun camera films? I assume all of you had them with you when you left for Burma - the Indians have released the Boyra shootdown film - I do not understand the PAF's reluctance to release your or West Pakistan gun camera film -not for a tit for tat - but only because they may great images....
.......

They are all with Dilawar Sahib and don't ask why this question why he has not giving it to PAF is a mystery on its own.

 

[shr_bwp]

They are all with Dilawar Sahib and don't ask why this question why he has not giving it to PAF is a mystery on its own.

How did you get from Burma to Pakistan ? - seems to me Burmese officials took a big chance of annoying India by repatriating all of you back to Pakistan......or did the US have anything to do with??

I just cannot imagine the courage it would have taken by Burma to not hand all of you to India........

With regard to the film - WOW - PAF allowed him to keep them? I hope he has them stored properly - film tends to degrade and go bad over time.....this is crazy....

By the way how do you tell which film belongs to which pilot or combat activity do these film carry markings? I know the gun camera film I see on TV do not seem to carry any individual markings - it just seems difficult to mark each black and white film with a unique marker before you load them in a plane. Nowadays it is probably easy with digital technology and all....

 

[Muradk]

does any one have a similar picture of no 14 in 71
No.14Sqn_1965-Dhaka on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

yes here you go

[/IMG]

 

[Muradk]

How did you get from Burma to Pakistan ? - seems to me Burmese officials took a big chance of annoying India by repatriating all of you back to Pakistan......or did the US have anything to do with??

I just cannot imagine the courage it would have taken by Burma to not hand all of you to India........

With regard to the film - WOW - PAF allowed him to keep them? I hope he has them stored properly - film tends to degrade and go bad over time.....this is crazy....

By the way how do you tell which film belongs to which pilot or combat activity do these film carry markings? I know the gun camera film I see on TV do not seem to carry any individual markings - it just seems difficult to mark each black and white film with a unique marker before you load them in a plane. Nowadays it is probably easy with digital technology and all....

In the weeks preceding the independence Burma had allowed Pakistan military and civilian personnel to fly to Kunming (China) via Rangoon. It also allowed Pakistan to fly out civil and military aircraft to Rangoon to avoid their falling into the hands of Indian and Bangladesh forces. In Bangladesh, Burmese permission to Pakistan to take out these aircraft etc was seen as depriving the
fledgling State of its rightful share of the national assets of the former Federation of Pakistan.
Remnants of the Pakistan Army continued to fight against the newly installed Government of Bangladesh along side tribals in the Chittagong Hill Tracts using the densely jungled Burma–Bangladesh border as cover and sanctuary. This low intensity fighting continued for well over two years. It appears improbable in hindsight that the Pakistan and tribal forces could have continued to fight for so long without Burma’s tacit tolerance of their use of its territory.
Nevertheless state-to-state relations between Bangladesh and Burma improved significantly in the years 1973 and 1974. Bangladesh had made a significant gesture by naming its most senior diplomat
K.M. Kaiser as its first Ambassador to Burma. K.M. Kaiser was widely known as having close links with the leadership of China (including Mao and Chou en Lai) where he had served as Pakistan’s Ambassador till he joined the infant Bangladesh Foreign Service. By the end of 1973, K.M. Kaiser was able to make a breakthrough in negotiating the maritime boundary between the two countries.

 

[shr_bwp]

yes here you go

[/IMG]

Thank you- of course NOW you have to tell us who is who.....

 

[Muradk]

yes here you go

[/IMG]

Standing left to right.
F/O Shaquat(late), F/L Naiz Nabi, F/L MKH Dotani, S/L Ansar, G/capt Zulfiqar, F/L Atisham, F/L Ijaz Azam, F/L Shahid Sarfaraz, F\O (late) Laiquat, F/L KMK.
Sitting L-R
F/O Qadir, F/O Mujahid, F/O Imtiaz, F/O Bilal, F/O Marghoob.

 

[shr_bwp]

Standing left to right.
F/O Shaquat(late), F/L Naiz Nabi, F/L MKH Dotani, S/L Ansar, G/capt Zulfiqar, F/L Atisham, F/L Ijaz Azam, F/L Shahid Sarfaraz, F\O (late) Laiquat, F/L KMK.
Sitting L-R
F/O Qadir, F/O Mujahid, F/O Imtiaz, F/O Bilal, F/O Marghoob.

Part of me was hoping that this would be a photograph of Afzal, Afzaal, Shams, Schames, Dilawar, Shamshad, Gul, SM Ahmad, (obviously it does not have PM Qureshi) and the rest, but maybe somebody else has a group photo of the December 1971 'crew'.......

 

[shr_bwp]

PAF "Early" Pilots :

north american | 1984 | 0797 | Flight Archive

 

[Jabar 1]

PAF "Early" Pilots :

north american | 1984 | 0797 | Flight Archive

Very Impressed with your knowledge regarding PAF. I do have photos of 1971 will post them for you.

 

[shr_bwp]

Very Impressed with your knowledge regarding PAF. I do have photos of 1971 will post them for you.

Thank you for saying so - but (I am NOT being humble here) I know NOTHING. I just take an interest in our air warriors. I do believe they have done a professional job, more often than not, whenever called upon (despite whatever was thrown at them which in the case of India, was about 10 times our air warrior's capacity) - it is their capability and training that aided them in neutralizing their' enemy's advantage in numbers and resources. In the ultimate analysis, they do their job very well indeed.

One example: 14 Squadron in Dacca, December 1971. I have previously asked the question: how many squadrons in aerial combat history have operated against its enemy FROM hostile territory (E Pak during the 1971 war was hostile territory in my opinion). The answer: only one -the Tail-Choppers. Anyone knows better, do let me know.

I look forward to those photographs.....