PAF in Libya during US confrontation

[Sage]

I think you should listen to what former AVM Shahid Lateef disclosed and had to say about all this.
Apparently, PAF fighters (F-16s) had the US Choppers in their sights, but were ordered by Zardari clan to stand down.
We know the American F/A 18s along with AWACS were patrolling the border areas anticipating the PAF response, Shahid Lateef was adamant that even if we had lost some F-16s in due course, at least the US Helicopters would have paid the price for their mis-adventure.

Where does he say that ? Link please ?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

All nice words, but not applicable when president of the country is your lap dog.

The point is not whether or not Zardari was/is a 'US lap dog' or whether or not Pakistan was involved in the raid -- the point is that without official Pakistani approval, the Abbottabad Operation conducted by the US was a violation of international law.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Abottabad raid was with the full approval of pakistan military and Zardari---. Gen Kiyani gave the go ahead for the operation and Gen Pasha was his lead man.

Gen Kiyani and Pasha should be given an award for their acting.

Everyone of us now knows that the drone strikes happen with the permission of pakistan govt.

 

[Ghostwhowalks]

Under international law it would be a defensive act by Pakistan in response to an unauthorized and unprovoked military operation inside Pakistani territory by a foreign State. The US could not claim that Pakistan refused to act or was reluctant to act (Pakistan can point to the fact that it has neutralized, in cooperation with the US many times, hundreds of high and low level AQ leaders and operatives since 2001, including the mastermind of the 9/11 attacks). The US therefore had no justification for its unilateral, unauthorized and therefore illegal military operation in Abbottabad.

Then the question arises- Why didn't Pakistan shoot down the US choppers? Like I said earlier, you should be grateful your political leaders acted sanely. else it would have meant RIP PAF.

Do you honestly think that the US, which so blatantly acts unilaterally and regularly violates Pakistan's sovereignty with impunity, would give two hoots about legalities if a Pakistani jet or SAM shot down its chopper and killed its soldiers. Mere presence of OBL in Abbotabad would have given them all the justification to attack Pakistan, leave alone added provocation of shooting down their chopper.

 

[v9s]

Then the question arises- Why didn't Pakistan shoot down the US choppers? Like I said earlier, you should be grateful your political leaders acted sanely. else it would have meant RIP PAF.

Because it was staged to look like it was a unilateral attack.

Do you honestly think that the US, which so blatantly acts unilaterally and regularly violates Pakistan's sovereignty with impunity, would give two hoots about legalities if a Pakistani jet or SAM shot down its chopper and killed its soldiers.

It does. Otherwise it sets up a dangerous precedent.

 

[Hamza913]

Hi,

Abottabad raid was with the full approval of pakistan military and Zardari---. Gen Kiyani gave the go ahead for the operation and Gen Pasha was his lead man.

Gen Kiyani and Pasha should be given an award for their acting.

Everyone of us now knows that the drone strikes happen with the permission of pakistan govt.

Finally, someone else who knows this.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

The point is not whether or not Zardari was/is a 'US lap dog' or whether or not Pakistan was involved in the raid -- the point is that without official Pakistani approval, the Abbottabad Operation conducted by the US was a violation of international law.

And what makes you think the US would undertake this operation without having approval at the "right" level within Pakistan, only to deny it in public for the so called Pakistanis to keep face?

Hi,

Abottabad raid was with the full approval of pakistan military and Zardari---. Gen Kiyani gave the go ahead for the operation and Gen Pasha was his lead man.

Gen Kiyani and Pasha should be given an award for their acting.

Everyone of us now knows that the drone strikes happen with the permission of pakistan govt.

Writing on the wall, all along.

Then the question arises- Why didn't Pakistan shoot down the US choppers? Like I said earlier, you should be grateful your political leaders acted sanely. else it would have meant RIP PAF.

Do you honestly think that the US, which so blatantly acts unilaterally and regularly violates Pakistan's sovereignty with impunity, would give two hoots about legalities if a Pakistani jet or SAM shot down its chopper and killed its soldiers. Mere presence of OBL in Abbotabad would have given them all the justification to attack Pakistan, leave alone added provocation of shooting down their chopper.

Because the country is not led by the Air Force.

Because it was staged to look like it was a unilateral attack.



It does. Otherwise it sets up a dangerous precedent.

All the illegal wars have already set all the precedents. The ABT raid was a dog and pony show.

 

[Ghostwhowalks]

The point is not whether or not Zardari was/is a 'US lap dog' or whether or not Pakistan was involved in the raid -- the point is that without official Pakistani approval, the Abbottabad Operation conducted by the US was a violation of international law.

And Pakistan could do squat about it! Not that it in any way diminishes Pakistan because taking on the US would have been suicidal.

HOWEVER, what amuses me is the false sense of bravado displayed by the likes of @Windjammer who portray as if the PAF was itching to put the US in its place but were held back by the politicians!! Since when has the armed forces of Pakistan listened to their political "masters"? And if in this rare occasion they actually did, then all I can say is that good for them, since they just saved the country from certain destruction.

Believe you me, you guys have no idea of the true might of the US Navy. Perhaps @MastanKhan can shed some light for you. In case PAF had really intercepted and brought the choppers down, you would have a CBG at Karachi port with missiles raining down on all your cities.

Also, remember the attack on your border posts by a US helicopter gunship? Now will you tell me even that was with the approval of the Pakistani leadership and military?

 

[Windjammer]

And Pakistan could do squat about it! Not that it in any way diminishes Pakistan because taking on the US would have been suicidal.

HOWEVER, what amuses me is the false sense of bravado displayed by the likes of @Windjammer who portray as if the PAF was itching to put the US in its place but were held back by the politicians!! Since when has the armed forces of Pakistan listened to their political "masters"? And if in this rare occasion they actually did, then all I can say is that good for them, since they just saved the country from certain destruction.

Believe you me, you guys have no idea of the true might of the US Navy. Perhaps @MastanKhan can shed some light for you. In case PAF had really intercepted and brought the choppers down, you would have a CBG at Karachi port with missiles raining down on all your cities.

Also, remember the attack on your border posts by a US helicopter gunship? Now will you tell me even that was with the approval of the Pakistani leadership and military?

Listen whoever you are, read my post again slowly before jumping the gun and tagging me.

 

[IceCold]

Yup, they showed Sadam Hussain from the time he was plucked out of a hole in the ground up until he was swinging from the rope but America's most wanted was just dumped into the sea like a Somalian pirate. The episode is even more dynamic than those WMD in Iraq.

It doesnt matter what it was, the only thing that matters is the embarrassment it caused to Pakistan and still does specially in the US and other western media and to be honest Pakistan gained nothing out of it for tagging along with the US version that indeed Osama was found in Abottabad and no body knew about it.

That too is not a black and white issue. Detecting a drone is not a problem, nor is any other aircraft; the issue lies with response time. A drone can cross into Pakistan for 10 minutes and be out of there without any response possible. Unlike the eastern border; there are only two response stations covering the west.

What about SAMs? I thought few units were moved there after the Salala Check post incident.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

And Pakistan could do squat about it! Not that it in any way diminishes Pakistan because taking on the US would have been suicidal.

HOWEVER, what amuses me is the false sense of bravado displayed by the likes of @Windjammer who portray as if the PAF was itching to put the US in its place but were held back by the politicians!! Since when has the armed forces of Pakistan listened to their political "masters"? And if in this rare occasion they actually did, then all I can say is that good for them, since they just saved the country from certain destruction.

Believe you me, you guys have no idea of the true might of the US Navy. Perhaps @MastanKhan can shed some light for you. In case PAF had really intercepted and brought the choppers down, you would have a CBG at Karachi port with missiles raining down on all your cities.

Also, remember the attack on your border posts by a US helicopter gunship? Now will you tell me even that was with the approval of the Pakistani leadership and military?

Who are you? Voice of America trying to scare Pakistan? For the helicopter gunship incident, kindly research what happened afterwords. Stop the "OMG you don't how strong US is and they will pummel you" Pakistan is not Iraq, or Libya, and all our adversaries, current and future, know the stakes.

 

[Ghostwhowalks]

Who are you? Voice of America trying to scare Pakistan? For the helicopter gunship incident, kindly research what happened afterwords. Stop the "OMG you don't how strong US is and they will pummel you" Pakistan is not Iraq, or Libya, and all our adversaries, current and future, know the stakes.

Just showing you guys a mirror. For once admit that your civilian leadership did the right thing. Whether your AVM made the purported statement or not is debatable in the absence of proof, but if he did then thank your stars it was not acted upon.

Discretion is the better part of valour at times

 

[Sine Nomine]

Just showing you guys a mirror. For once admit that your civilian leadership did the right thing. Whether your AVM made the purported statement or not is debatable in the absence of proof, but if he did then thank your stars it was not acted upon.

Discretion is the better part of valour at times

Well what you think would have been Pakistani replay bin case of US-Paakistan war do you think we would have been sitting idle when so called CBG would have been raining missile,US is only good at bullying countries which would do nothing in case of Pakistan,we are different story.

 

[Windjammer]

Just showing you guys a mirror. For once admit that your civilian leadership did the right thing. Whether your AVM made the purported statement or not is debatable in the absence of proof, but if he did then thank your stars it was not acted upon.

Discretion is the better part of valour at times

Nonsense, we don't need some internet warrior to advise us, just look at your own conflicting if not hypocrite statement, on one side you claim that when did the military ever listened to the politicians and yet here you are giving credit to the civilian leadership for taking the decision, as they say, never box above your weight and leave these matters to those who understand them accordingly.

 

[araz]

Who are you? Voice of America trying to scare Pakistan? For the helicopter gunship incident, kindly research what happened afterwords. Stop the "OMG you don't how strong US is and they will pummel you" Pakistan is not Iraq, or Libya, and all our adversaries, current and future, know the stakes.

Point taken. However the whole incident could have been enacted in Adfghanistan in some remote cave. The fact that this whole farce was played out in pakistan and gave us a really bad name internationally is dispicable in the extreme. The politicial and military leadership, whosoever were involved took a very shortsighted view of things and allowed a"horse and pony Show" to be enacted on our soil without any rhyme or reason to the detriment of our national honour and reputation( if we have one at all). This is the one thing I will never understand about this whole shambolic affair.
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