PAF: Himalayan Showdown

[salman-1]

Still to some extent PAF lacks a dedicated ground attack fighter as jaguar. Mirages are old and not like jaguars for ground role, they lack precision strike capability which is crucial in modern warfare.
Jf17 still under going upgrading after they get Aselon pods and lots of testing and training. Still 76 F-16s are only credible strike and air superiority fighters. PAF must have fighters like Fc20 which can be an affordable fighter like F 16s

If we can use fighters like f7 n F7 pg to date with upgradings for last 20-25 years why to adopt Fc20 with all it's pros n cons. It can be a handy and lethal solution for our Air defence needs

 

[Bossman]

Good introspective and analysis from a senior officer and I am sure PAF learned from the experience. But the reality is that it was a fiasco for the IAF not the PAF. At end of the day IAF lost 3 jets and one helicopter and PAF none.

 

[Hellfire]

Link

http://kaiser-aeronaut.blogspot.in/2009/01/kargil-conflict-and-pakistan-air-force.html

 

[illusion8]

Good introspective and analysis from a senior officer and I am sure PAF learned from the experience. But the reality is that it was a fiasco for the IAF not the PAF. At end of the day IAF lost 3 jets and one helicopter and PAF none.

It was 2 jets not 3...and expected when operating at heights above the Himalaya. A thousand raids and recon missions does have a few casualties.

 

[Falgrine]

If there was rule of law prevailing in the country, the army trio would surely have been tried in the court for that effing misadventure. Kudos to the men in blues for being the more sensible part of the military. There is a reason sombody said that war was too serious a business left alone to the Generals.

 

[Imtiaz_Sarwar]

Before Kargil war Pakistan and India were moving in the direction of solving the Kashmir problem peacefully on diplomatic and political front. Kargil war was like the proverbial "Spanner in the work" or "monkey wrench" kind of thing. All the confidence building measures went into thin air. Now it will take a long time to build the trust between the two countries. we will have to start from zero.
Lets hope for the best.

 

[OrionHunter]

Why would he send this article to an Indian by email. Why don't you provide a source link?. Otherwise I can also receive similar emails by the Indian Army Chief where he explains to me reasons of IA's failures.

There is no link. Mr Tufail is sending him by emails

Firstly where did I mention that Tufail having sent me the email? It was sent by a person who had read his account in the Defence Journal (Pak), (May 2009), and "Himalayan Showdown" in the Air Forces Monthly, UK (June 2009).

Please don't expect to be spoon fed every time with a link. Go to the archives section in your defence library, dig out the article by Air Commodore Tufail and read it yourself.

What's so funny? Are you trying to say that Air commodore Taufil, who was the Director of Operations of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) during the Kargil conflict and who served as Deputy Commandant and Commandant of the PAF Air War College as well as Senior Air Staff Officer (SASO) at the Southern Air Command is spinning yarns and talking through his hat?

And you are...?

 

[Erroroverload]

What's so funny? Are you trying to say that Air commodore Taufil, who was the Director of Operations of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) during the Kargil conflict and who served as Deputy Commandant and Commandant of the PAF Air War College as well as Senior Air Staff Officer (SASO) at the Southern Air Command is spinning yarns and talking through his hat?

And you are...?

Link plz

 

[OrionHunter]

Link plz

My Post #22.

 

[araz]

link ?

This is Kaiser Tufail's write up and has been presented on the board before. There is no need for a link as the write up is known.
The Armies of this world purely due to their authoritative attitude have been prone to making mistakes of this order. It is sad that a lot of lives were lost for very little gain. This is a rehash of an operation presented to late Zia ul Haq who tore it to shreds raising all the possibilities and ramifications that Kaisar Tufail pointed out. We need to learn lessons from this misadventure and establish a joint planning and command structure where forces are used in complementary manner rather than individual misadventure. I think although having been away from Pakistan dor nearly 2 decades plus some more things have begun to change. However how much so is anyone's guess.
A

Good introspective and analysis from a senior officer and I am sure PAF learned from the experience. But the reality is that it was a fiasco for the IAF not the PAF. At end of the day IAF lost 3 jets and one helicopter and PAF none.

Yes andNo. They lost fighters due to being ill informed and therefore yes. However they changed tack, upgraded their armaments on fast track and struck back. On an offensive move you will always lose some fighters.
A

 

[OrionHunter]

Gp Capt Tufail missed out one important aspect that merits mention and that is the destruction of Pakistan Army's main logistics base at Muntho Dhalo by IAF's Mirage fighters where maximum casualties were inflicted and supplies totally destroyed. As a result, Pakistani troops soon ran short of ammo, kero, food, water and spares, one of the reasons that forced them to withdraw. Thus Mush's dream of capturing Siachen via Kargil came a cropper.

As to why the PAF could not prevent this is unclear as it was one of the turning points of the battle..

Before the attack

During the attack

After the attack

 

[Imtiaz_Sarwar]

One of the lessons learned from Kargil war is that now precision strikes have come of age. Precision strikes are now the name of the game. I am sure our defence planners must have been aware of them but they very likely assumed it to be the stuff of advanced countries. Indian use of precision strikes must have woken them up.