PAF guard’s bullet kills woman in Peshawar

[Icarus]

She keeps droning on about a trial but doesn't understand that you need one of the two parties to actually take the matter into court for there to be a trial. It just does not spontaneously land in front of a judge for prosecution.

 

[TaimiKhan]

May Allah give a beautiful place to the departed soul in Jannah.

Coming to the incident, when you come out of the airport gate, you take a right and that road leads you out to the exit roads and there are no checkposts on this exit. But if you take left and keep going, you are entering the heart of the PAF installations, specifically the gate of the airbase, the air headquarters, residential complexes etc etc, its literally the heart of the PAF Peshawar and on this road just 50-100 meters from the airport OUT gate is a major check point manned by PAF guys, once you cross this check point then nothing will stop you reaching the air base gate or even the headquarter gate and i believe this ill fated family took this route and didn't stop when the air force guys signaled them and they could not take chances and they fired. Had they taken the right hand route, there would have been nothing as nothing is there in that exit route.

But we should learn from this incident, so should the security officials and make sure no one unwanted takes the left hand route after they exit the airport gate. Big warning sign boards should be placed.

 

[Amaa'n]

PAF / military is a national institute, at least they should set an example by fair trial. May be after investigation (in case of inquiry) they suggest some changes in training just like in USA. May be if proper investigation done the investigators recommends some change in rule of engagement.
What a pity a heart patient retire principle killed but no inquiry and angels set free.
.

FYI, there will be internal investigation and there will be consequences --- if as being said, Guard Panicked, then he will have to bear burden of his action ---it will stay on his File for a long time - till end of service, he may even get tagged - Not fit to handle situation ----just because there was a out of court settlement , does not mean that a clean chit has been handed to Guard -----

 

[Samandri]

1) You are not making sense. In late 90's, on a beach, a small child pointed a toy Pistol at a Police Officer serving in NYC on beach patrol. Unfortunately, the officer only saw the gun for a second. He didn't have the time to determine if the gun was fake or real (as it looked real) and the way these guys are trained, they react to these situations as a second nature. Unfortunately, the kid was shot and lost his life.

Thats fcked up and insane, a Policeman in America shot a small Kid because he aimed a toy gun at him?.......it was trigger-happy, twisted-minded individual who was playing too many shooting games and was seeing himself in the combat zone while he was actually at the beach.....No such trigger-happy nervous freaks should be allowed to do the policing in the public spaces.

 

[Samandri]

looks like you have never crossed a check post and road block in Pakistan.. they are single lane with clear marking and signals.. one has to be blind to miss them.. there are speed breakers, and blocks and big signal to stop .. the only way you can miss the obvious and in your face sign is that you are constantly looking backward while driving forward or you areblind

Or may be , the guard observed from distance, that car is approaching them at very fast speed, and made up his mind to shoot, even though car had not yet reached at the distance at which you slows down. I am saying this, because such incident happened in our area in the early years when people were not familiar with army check posts and carefullness one has to show around them. A Car was driving at high speed towards security check post between Lakki and Aba khel, and from a very considerable distance, soldiers started shooting at them, and in that case, instead of a single bullet, it was ridden with lot many bullets, killing all the family members in the car, woman and a two girls included. No FIR was "allowed" to be lodged by local police and the villagers of the victims (from Aba Khel), who otherwise are noted for badmashi and revenge, muffled down their protest of blocking road, as army was involved. In the remote and backward area like that, the incident didnt even reach to the media, the local journalist was briefed. In later years , Army soldiers realized that our folk are not exactly "wild" like Waziristanis and they relaxed little bit, and the locals also began to show caution and carefulness around them, cases like this no longer happens in my town at least. It used to make me very angry, but i have calmed down when i realized that all the armies around the world respond like this, and that policing is not the job of army, they will always behave like soldiers.

I dont think, its the case of "he got panicked", i am too much familiar with cases like this and i know very well that PAF soldier simply followed the orders......and FIR was not lodged , just like it was allowed to be dodged in the cases that happened in my district wherever army soldiers were culprit. @Paripaker

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Or may be , the guard observed from distance, that car is approaching them at very fast speed, and made up his mind to shoot, even though car had not yet reached at the distance at which you slows down.@Paripaker

probable yes.
since I dont know much about this incident so cant comment how much fair warning was given and if the shooting was done when the vehicle was way far from the post requiring the mandatory slow down
but I experience the checkposts and blocks everyday so i dont have to speculate. I along with other road users slow down and comply well in advance . it is the way the traffic is calmed down through narrowing down of the lanes and with speed breakers etc.
all I can say in this case is,.. rest in peace to the innocent and unfortunate death.
I also recall the back to back shooting of the police cops at the checkposts in Islamabad who were shot and killed 2 times by the passer-by motorcycle riders and the killers managed to run away from the scene. in those unfortunate cases.. the policemen were not fast enough or alert enough to foil the terror attempt on them and in this unfortunate case the PAF guard "might" have been too quick and also was true in his shot which proved fatal.

 

[haviZsultan]

Guards and army men must not be so trigger happy. They are there to save lives not kill their own citizens. Car should have stopped though.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Guards and army men must not be so trigger happy. They are there to save lives not kill their own citizens. Car should have stopped though.

Problem is, in such kind of situations you have seconds to react. If you wait a few more seconds or a minute, the vehicle if its a suicide will reach its target and the result you know.

In my home town, army guys had told all the local villagers that whenever on the main highway army convoy is moving, plz ask your people working in fields beside the main road to just stand up and don't make suspicious movements, especially taking hands into their pockets or taking out mobiles. And that is exactly some of the villagers did with the rationale that who are the army guys to instruct us, as you know we pathan love to do the opposite of what we are asked or requested. So end result, army shot a few of them, mostly cases were of injuries and in some cases deaths occurred.

And you will see lot of such incidents happening in KPK, because we pathans love to defy orders and when we get shot then we do dharnas too.

And in this case, chances are that women was in the back seat of the vehicle, thus it seems she was the first one to get shot from the back meaning the vehicle had passed the check point and it was fired upon from behind.

I on daily basis pass through 2-3 check points and see lot of motorists arguing with security officials and in few cases saw them speed their car even though the army guys asked them to change their route, but army guys showed their coolness and did not order to fire and let them speed away.

 

[haviZsultan]

Problem is, in such kind of situations you have seconds to react. If you wait a few more seconds or a minute, the vehicle if its a suicide will reach its target and the result you know.

In my home town, army guys had told all the local villagers that whenever on the main highway army convoy is moving, plz ask your people working in fields beside the main road to just stand up and don't make suspicious movements, especially taking hands into their pockets or taking out mobiles. And that is exactly some of the villagers did with the rationale that who are the army guys to instruct us, as you know we pathan love to do the opposite of what we are asked or requested. So end result, army shot a few of them, mostly cases were of injuries and in some cases deaths occurred.

And you will see lot of such incidents happening in KPK, because we pathans love to defy orders and when we get shot then we do dharnas too.

And in this case, chances are that women was in the back seat of the vehicle, thus it seems she was the first one to get shot from the back meaning the vehicle had passed the check point and it was fired upon from behind.

I on daily basis pass through 2-3 check points and see lot of motorists arguing with security officials and in few cases saw them speed their car even though the army guys asked them to change their route, but army guys showed their coolness and did not order to fire and let them speed away.

I wish the situation improves. All these check points are abnormal and shouldn't be in civilian areas. But people who support and advocate terrorism have caused so much fear and instability that we are accepting of civilian casualties even by the army which is supposed to protect. Each civilian casualty is a hit on the soft war against militancy.

Some stats I came across while writing my book were increasingly troubling. For example the main bazaar in Makeen has been razed multiple times under the Frontier Crimes Regulation Collective Responsibilities Act, a law from British times that blames an entire tribe or clan for the action of one Talibani cockroach. To win hearts such casualties must be limited if not completely eradicated. I find these incidences troubling though the fault is mainly the civilians own.

 

[TaimiKhan]

I wish the situation improves. All these check points are abnormal and shouldn't be in civilian areas. But people who support and advocate terrorism have caused so much fear and instability that we are accepting of civilian casualties even by the army which is supposed to protect. Each civilian casualty is a hit on the soft war against militancy.

Some stats I came across while writing my book were increasingly troubling. For example the main bazaar in Makeen has been razed multiple times under the Frontier Crimes Regulation Collective Responsibilities Act, a law from British times that blames an entire tribe or clan for the action of one Talibani cockroach. To win hearts such casualties must be limited if not completely eradicated. I find these incidences troubling though the fault is mainly the civilians own.

I totally agree, but you know the FCR kind of rules having collective punishment things proved to be very useful also in many situations. As whole areas are inhabited by same tribe guys, its their territory, thus their responsibility. But when these militants came, this collective punishment was useless as those militants were more powerful then the tribes or their lashkars, due to which the locals couldn't do anything against them. One of the reason hundreds of tribal elders were gunned down so that people loose the will to stand against them.

But personally i think now FCR kind of stuff should go away or necessary amendments made so that no more brutal covenants remain. And they should become part of KPK now.

 

[haviZsultan]

I totally agree, but you know the FCR kind of rules having collective punishment things proved to be very useful also in many situations. As whole areas are inhabited by same tribe guys, its their territory, thus their responsibility. But when these militants came, this collective punishment was useless as those militants were more powerful then the tribes or their lashkars, due to which the locals couldn't do anything against them. One of the reason hundreds of tribal elders were gunned down so that people loose the will to stand against them.

But personally i think now FCR kind of stuff should go away or necessary amendments made so that no more brutal covenants remain. And they should become part of KPK now.

I agree. FATA should either be merged or made a new province. Local people in a survey wanted the same thing. The collective responsibilities act should also go despite whatever short term benefits it offers.

 

[Samandri]

In my home town, army guys had told all the local villagers that whenever on the main highway army convoy is moving, plz ask your people working in fields beside the main road to just stand up and don't make suspicious movements, especially taking hands into their pockets or taking out mobiles.

Same here in Lakki Marwat. Most of the victims in these areas were "lewani" , the insane faqeer type of people who are unaware of their surroundings and got shot by army.

I on daily basis pass through 2-3 check points and see lot of motorists arguing with security officials and in few cases saw them speed their car even though the army guys asked them to change their route, but army guys showed their coolness and did not order to fire and let them speed away.

Thats not true, soldiers are not "cool" about it. A while ago, saw faujis kicking a youngster with boots in my home town, who was speeding on motorcycle. Situation has improved, as he received kicks instead of bullets.

 

[Viper0011.]

Thats fcked up and insane, a Policeman in America shot a small Kid because he aimed a toy gun at him?.......it was trigger-happy, twisted-minded individual who was playing too many shooting games and was seeing himself in the combat zone while he was actually at the beach.....No such trigger-happy nervous freaks should be allowed to do the policing in the public spaces.

I don't know how much you know about SWAT teams (a similar force would be the Elite force in Pakistan, but obviously much lower in capability, but the concepts are the same). Majority of the SWAT members come from ex-military background and are usually deployed in heightened sensitivity and public safety areas. Its pretty obvious you've not seen their training, but during the training, they are taught to save their life, and eliminate the threat.

In this example, the gun wasn't a Yellow or Green toy gun that you could spot from long distance. This was a replica of a 9MM Pistol and a very real replica that in a few glances, you can't tell unless you are playing with it or can examine it closely. So from like 20 feet away, what do you think it would look like? And if its pointed to you, what do you think will happen?

Did you know that in Iraq, we lost servicemen initially, because there were times when a few young women and children at times, stopped our troops and later took out RPG's and fired at the troops and caused damage? These were trained terrorists and they have no mercy. Similarly, this child in question could be out of his mind, and between a trigger being pressed and the cop retaliating, is a second may be (gun already pointing to the cop). So what do you think the officer would do? He'd do exactly what he's trained for. He'll save his life, will take out the threat (sadly not a threat in this case) and will ensure the public are safe as this was a public area. If he misses the beat, he and many other may be dead (if this kid was a juvenile with criminal history or similarly a challenged child sadly).

Remember, PUBLIC safety first AND protect yourself as an officer so you can better control the situation!!

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

I don't know how much you know about SWAT teams (a similar force would be the Elite force in Pakistan, but obviously much lower in capability, but the concepts are the same). Majority of the SWAT members come from ex-military background and are usually deployed in heightened sensitivity and public safety areas. Its pretty obvious you've not seen their training, but during the training, they are taught to save their life, and eliminate the threat.

In this example, the gun wasn't a Yellow or Green toy gun that you could spot from long distance. This was a replica of a 9MM Pistol and a very real replica that in a few glances, you can't tell unless you are playing with it or can examine it closely. So from like 20 feet away, what do you think it would look like? And if its pointed to you, what do you think will happen?!

The thing that makes these situations more tragic is that kids paint the "required" orange tips black (or snap them off) and then waltz down the street waving them around at each other. Next thing you know somebody is calling the cops and then somebody gets shot.

 

[Airdef95]

why not fired at tires.....?
There must b alternate mechanism for vehicles who dont stop at signals....rather than to fire at will.

What if the woman was a terrorist and was carrying a suicide jacket and would have blown herself up and the others right after the second the gaurd shot the tyres. :p