PAF & Future Cyber Warfare

[Kompromat]

Actually I for one am not convinced that cyber warfare is the way to go. The one off hacking events that have happened (e.g. Pentagon) etc, are I believe just due to the fact that agencies around the world do not give priority to safeguarding against cyber warfare. Once it becomes a sizeable threat, they will, and I believe it then will have a very short span of usefulness.

I think we would need a huge jump in IT intellect before we can think about undertaking cyber warfare. But again, I may be wrong as after all my IT knowledge is not that awesome.

well i would have to agree with you on certain issues and they creat a flaw in my mind sometimes .
what is disappointing me in this thread is the lack of research the members are facing and most of them are posting their personal views tough i respect them.

Sir the Cyberwarfare is constantly been ununderstood , Its not Hacking we are talking about.

Hacking a computer system is a WALK IN THE PARK:
Cyberwarfare is a phantom of actions taken to achieve an Ultimate goal , based on different aspects of using Cyber as a battlefield.
Explanation what Cyberwarfare consists on!

Hacking:
Virus:
Spamming:
DOS attacks:
Search engine alterations:
BOT attacks:
Spying:
malwares:
torjans:
e-mail spams: & much much more .
They all must be used in a series to acheive a common goal
Where the battle would take place?
The cyber warfare terrain includes all aspects of the Internet from the
backbones of the web, to the Internet Service Providers, to the varying types of data communication mediums and network equipment. The terrain does not end in a field, mountain range, or a coastline, rather the cyber warfare terrain encompasses the cities, communities, and the world, in which we live. The 21st century battlefield is comprised of many components that include the Internet and all things that connect from a computer to the Internet. This would include: web servers, enterprise information systems, client server systems, datacommunication media [i.e., Cable, DSL, T1-T3, OC12-OC48, frame relay, ATM, varying types of satellites, oceanic cables, etc.], network equipment, and the desktops/laptops that are in our businnesses and homes. The terrain will also encompass information systems like the electrical grids, telecommunication systems, and various corporate and military robotics systems.



Does it makes any sense ???

Hope done so the question , by the way i dont agree that USAF is not concious about This warfare please look at Airforce.com
And yeah US has put 5 billion dollors in to provide security to the network systems ..i think its enough to understand what they are upto!

 

[Kompromat]

guys - btw - cyber war - is totally misunderstood by some people.

1. yes we need brillient brain - ( thankfully both india and pakistan are full of them)

2. a cyber war cant be dont trough - your regular pc - we need super computers for such purpose - india indeed is on the track and i think pakistan can come and join the party - because needed infrastructure wont be very expensive.

3. the countries who will start such programme soon will benefit from it.

4. it will be pleasinf to see - those billion $ awacs falling like dead meat - with just ( PRESS ANY KEY ) command. lool

----- but i think for that most important is the - WILL REQUIRED - and american influence on politican will be very high to keep us at from such -WILL !

Sir:
I would say Pakistan is on the track too , we have such people who can do anything they want.
All i am trying to say is that PAF should use these guys , and i dont think that PAK_INDIA relation in cyberwarfare would stand .
Its hard to explain that how an expensive fighter or EW or AWACS will fall from the sky like a shot duck!!

But i can promise that it is possible and it will happen & you shall see it soon , as long as a computer works on an INPUT & OUTPUT system .
Please read the link that i am posting beneath about Genral David richards the Chief of the British Army.
Army chief General Sir David Richards says ships and jets no longer the answer | UK news | The Guardian

Regards:

 

[TacOps]

@Black Blood:

The list of different types of cyber warfare you have provided is exactly what I would like to point out to. With the exception of spamming which is an entirely different aspect of such warfare, others such as trojans, spywares, phishing etc are all based on retrieval of unauthorized information from systems....which can be described with the generic term of hacking.

All of these methods are exactly those which I don't think can't harm a proper military organization. Furthermore, if US is indeed putting that much money into network security then I must say that the danger of limited usefulness of cyber warfare will come into play rather soon.

Sure you can use spam, bring down websites etc and may be gain access to say ATMs and other connected machines, but my point is that the opportunity to gain access to a network or machine which will make the whole exercise worthwhile would be rare at best.

Simply put, I am just stating that scenarios of being able to pull down aircraft from the sky using cyber warfare is somewhat an over kill.

 

[advaita]

@Black Blood:

The list of different types of cyber warfare you have provided is exactly what I would like to point out to. With the exception of spamming which is an entirely different aspect of such warfare, others such as trojans, spywares, phishing etc are all based on retrieval of unauthorized information from systems....which can be described with the generic term of hacking.

All of these methods are exactly those which I don't think can't harm a proper military organization. Furthermore, if US is indeed putting that much money into network security then I must say that the danger of limited usefulness of cyber warfare will come into play rather soon.

Sure you can use spam, bring down websites etc and may be gain access to say ATMs and other connected machines, but my point is that the opportunity to gain access to a network or machine which will make the whole exercise worthwhile would be rare at best.

Simply put, I am just stating that scenarios of being able to pull down aircraft from the sky using cyber warfare is somewhat an over kill.

Man what are you doing writing all this stuff.

I was enjoying the thread.

 

[Kompromat]

Man what are you doing writing all this stuff.

I was enjoying the thread.

Guys i have just took a disgusting test and i am like a Mirage III which has lost contact to its Radar !!!

I will come back soon with some new arguments to prove my Point !
Regards:

 

[Silent observer]

well i would have to agree with you on certain issues and they creat a flaw in my mind sometimes .
what is disappointing me in this thread is the lack of research the members are facing and most of them are posting their personal views tough i respect them.

Sir the Cyberwarfare is constantly been ununderstood , Its not Hacking we are talking about.

Hacking a computer system is a WALK IN THE PARK:
Cyberwarfare is a phantom of actions taken to achieve an Ultimate goal , based on different aspects of using Cyber as a battlefield.
Explanation what Cyberwarfare consists on!

Hacking:
Virus:
Spamming:
DOS attacks:
Search engine alterations:
BOT attacks:
Spying:
malwares:
torjans:
e-mail spams: & much much more .
They all must be used in a series to acheive a common goal
Where the battle would take place?
The cyber warfare terrain includes all aspects of the Internet from the
backbones of the web, to the Internet Service Providers, to the varying types of data communication mediums and network equipment. The terrain does not end in a field, mountain range, or a coastline, rather the cyber warfare terrain encompasses the cities, communities, and the world, in which we live. The 21st century battlefield is comprised of many components that include the Internet and all things that connect from a computer to the Internet. This would include: web servers, enterprise information systems, client server systems, datacommunication media [i.e., Cable, DSL, T1-T3, OC12-OC48, frame relay, ATM, varying types of satellites, oceanic cables, etc.], network equipment, and the desktops/laptops that are in our businnesses and homes. The terrain will also encompass information systems like the electrical grids, telecommunication systems, and various corporate and military robotics systems.

nice thread

there is a movie that i had seen "die hard 4.0"..i am not a bruce willis fan but in that movie that called this cyberspace warefare as firesale or something an it was started not by a country but by one of their own former employee. i think that movie can explain the extent of damage this cyber space warfare can do to any country. off course in the movie it was exaggeravated senario to fit the hero s personality/script/requirement etc and at a little lesser extent as in this movie but if you think this thing can be possible and that can bring a huge chaos in the country. the things mentioned by you ad other members are all shown in this movie and is a must watch if one want to understand the capabilities of cyberspace warfare.

i think it is a must to have a cyberspace warfare unit of something not only in army but also for navy airforce as well. if hackers can enter into some sophisticated computers to steal secrets than imagine how much damage/protection a unit of cyberspace personel can do. i think in future countries will avoid conventional wars due to weapons deadly enough to finish the human race in eachother countries and the future war will be fought on cyberspace technology and bringing chaos to other countries of such a magnitude that the country s infrastructure freeze to operate, e.g. manipulation of stock exchanges, media and communications only can bring an uncontrollable chaos that can leave the country frozen to operate.

regards

 

[Comet]

nice thread

there is a movie that i had seen "die hard 4.0"..i am not a bruce willis fan but in that movie that called this cyberspace warefare as firesale or something an it was started not by a country but by one of their own former employee. i think that movie can explain the extent of damage this cyber space warfare can do to any country. off course in the movie it was exaggeravated senario to fit the hero s personality/script/requirement etc and at a little lesser extent as in this movie but if you think this thing can be possible and that can bring a huge chaos in the country. the things mentioned by you ad other members are all shown in this movie and is a must watch if one want to understand the capabilities of cyberspace warfare.

i think it is a must to have a cyberspace warfare unit of something not only in army but also for navy airforce as well. if hackers can enter into some sophisticated computers to steal secrets than imagine how much damage/protection a unit of cyberspace personel can do. i think in future countries will avoid conventional wars due to weapons deadly enough to finish the human race in eachother countries and the future war will be fought on cyberspace technology and bringing chaos to other countries of such a magnitude that the country s infrastructure freeze to operate, e.g. manipulation of stock exchanges, media and communications only can bring an uncontrollable chaos that can leave the country frozen to operate.

regards

Not every country is prone to the extent of damage shown in that movie. Countries like USA may face more problems because they have everything digitized and interconnected.

 

[Silent observer]

Not every country is prone to the extent of damage shown in that movie. Countries like USA may face more problems because they have everything digitized and interconnected.

yes you are right umairp, as i had mentioned already that that film can give you an idea of the capacity of cyberspace and how bad it can be.

my point is that many of the things we use especially in defence are imported from west (US, france etc). just suppose, if they try to hack against their own things which were sold to us, i mean it is much easier to get into a programme written by you since you know the loopholes in it. i know, we are changing to chinese things now buit even then we want to use western avionics and radars etc for JF17 and J10 as well so once again the senario will remain the same, i guess.

sometimes i wonder the GPS systems we use commonly in forces are US (may be european), if they simply shut them down (for us) what can it lead to. i am not a military professional but i think it can lead to a disaster for us, isnt it? and i do not think it is impossible for US to do this thing, because when it comes to laws and regulations they can just make or break them whenever seems necessary for their benefits and we know it.

media and communications are all through satellites once again and we are still in the process of developing one of our own. the one we are using is not pak made. my point is, we are may be more prone to the damage risks of cyber space warfare than west because their things are indiginous and we are in process of conversion to indigenous technologies (still a long way ahead of us).

i may be wrong and i hope i am wrong but i think it is better to make ourselves prepared for the worst and this is the right time for Pakistan.

regards

 

[Kompromat]

yes you are right umairp, as i had mentioned already that that film can give you an idea of the capacity of cyberspace and how bad it can be.

my point is that many of the things we use especially in defence are imported from west (US, france etc). just suppose, if they try to hack against their own things which were sold to us, i mean it is much easier to get into a programme written by you since you know the loopholes in it. i know, we are changing to chinese things now buit even then we want to use western avionics and radars etc for JF17 and J10 as well so once again the senario will remain the same, i guess.

sometimes i wonder the GPS systems we use commonly in forces are US (may be european), if they simply shut them down (for us) what can it lead to. i am not a military professional but i think it can lead to a disaster for us, isnt it? and i do not think it is impossible for US to do this thing, because when it comes to laws and regulations they can just make or break them whenever seems necessary for their benefits and we know it.

media and communications are all through satellites once again and we are still in the process of developing one of our own. the one we are using is not pak made. my point is, we are may be more prone to the damage risks of cyber space warfare than west because their things are indiginous and we are in process of conversion to indigenous technologies (still a long way ahead of us).

i may be wrong and i hope i am wrong but i think it is better to make ourselves prepared for the worst and this is the right time for Pakistan.

regards

Thanks silent , i really appreciate your help !

I wana recommend something to all of you guys , There is a movie in addition to die hard 4.0 .

A must watch on this topic is Eagle eye it will clear many of my concepts to you guys which are being taken as mythologies at this time of the year.
i am repeating again & again & again.

Guys Cyberwarfare is NOT Hacking only , hacking is just a small part of it !!!!!
C/W will consist on , Hacking , and using all of those methods that i have mentioned earlier to Sneak in and get the required Information !!!
Once the information is in hand , you can start thinking about what to do with it.
lemme Give you an hypothetical example:

As i have said earlier Israel is putting money in with India to counter Pakistan in Information warfare !!

For example : The cyberwarfare unit in PAF , gets into India's newly purchased AWACS , the Phalcon .
By being able to do that , guess what information you will get ???

you will know what India is looking for in Pakistan rite?
in simple words , you will get that information and will be more ready for any adventure , since India cannot attack Pakistan directly , they are putting money in and doing it Indirectly .
Suicide bombers get their money from them , and blow up themselves in a location to kill some people , BUT this is what they know And what they dont know is the Location they are blasting themselves is of a strategic Importance.

So India gets information spying via AWACS and identifying their targets inside Pakistan , and sending a suicide bomber to attack that one !!

So what if you hack their AWACS and know where the bomb blast after 5 days will occur ?

ITs enough for now , lets keep talking about it guys , and i will try to explain more concepts !!

Pray for me brothers i am going for the exam

Regards:

 

[Kompromat]

Not every country is prone to the extent of damage shown in that movie. Countries like USA may face more problems because they have everything digitized and interconnected.

Sir i have tried to answer this question in my post below please read it !

If you think that USA . EU . Israel or in other words G20 countries are more at risk than Pakistan , then i would have to say sorry i do not agree.
They are at risk and they will be at risk BUT when they will have the power to protect themselves , then guess what ? they will treat Pakistan and other (who Will keep Sleeeping on my Call ) like slaves as they do now.
To prevent that , You must develop this Unit and keep them BUSY i think you know what i mean by Busy !
regards:

 

[Comet]

Sir i have tried to answer this question in my post below please read it !

If you think that USA . EU . Israel or in other words G20 countries are more at risk than Pakistan , then i would have to say sorry i do not agree.
They are at risk and they will be at risk BUT when they will have the power to protect themselves , then guess what ? they will treat Pakistan and other (who Will keep Sleeeping on my Call ) like slaves as they do now.
To prevent that , You must develop this Unit and keep them BUSY i think you know what i mean by Busy !
regards:

I never said that we don't need this unit.

 

[Kompromat]

I never said that we don't need this unit.

So all we have to do is to get more & more people on this thread , to discuss this Important issue , dnt you agree?

 

[Comet]

So all we have to do is to get more & more people on this thread , to discuss this Important issue , dnt you agree?

I agree.

I am a student, currently doing BS-Computer Science from FAST
As far as my knowledge is concerned, Cyber war and Cyber crimes are the terms used for Online (Internet) related stuff.

With Cyber war one means to hack/ destroy the online servers working with Banks, Government and Military etc

Where as jamming an AWACS is a different story altogether. USA has jets that are equipped with electronic suits for jamming and other electronic warfare.

---------- Post added at 10:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:55 AM ----------

There is news here Air Force Establishes ‘Reduced’ Cyber-War Command | Danger Room | Wired.com

 

[Kompromat]

Guys A must watch Video on Our topic :

 

[Kompromat]

I agree.

I am a student, currently doing BS-Computer Science from FAST
As far as my knowledge is concerned, Cyber war and Cyber crimes are the terms used for Online (Internet) related stuff.

With Cyber war one means to hack/ destroy the online servers working with Banks, Government and Military etc

Where as jamming an AWACS is a different story altogether. USA has jets that are equipped with electronic suits for jamming and other electronic warfare.

---------- Post added at 10:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:55 AM ----------

There is news here Air Force Establishes ‘Reduced’ Cyber-War Command | Danger Room | Wired.com

Thanks:

I would like to say that Cyber warfare includes all those aspects that i have mentioned before & Media and internet based Propeganda campaigns too!!

I would like you to go and have a good read about the warfare tactics in cyberspace in different website and share with us.

Here is something exciting

The United States Air Force is actively seeking "cyberspace attack scenarios," according to documents posted on a government Web site for contractors.

The attack strategies should "disrupt, deny, degrade, destroy or deceive an adversary's information system," according to the Air Force Requests for Information (RFIs) obtained by ABC News.

Experts say this move marks a change in the traditionally secret world of cyber warfare.

"This is a significant development," said Amit Yoran, former White House cybersecurity czar. "Historically cyber warfare remained in the very classified arenas of government."

Marine Gen. James Cartwright told the House Armed Services Committee earlier this year that the Air Force's new Strategic Command is charged with conducting cyber attacks in support of assigned missions.

Regards: