PAF F16-Blk70 possibly coming - TO BE CONFIRMED

[The Eagle]

I hate to throw a spanner in the works.

Sometimes, its want of time Sir.

I think we have no reason to disbelieve @Khafee, however the news is a single man's account and the finances and other nitty gritties will need to be sorted out. The former are a huge challange to us at this point.
I dont think we will have upgrade of radar and other equipment fleet wide as the cost will shoot through the roof. I still think a better approach might be to get some new 16s and if possible older block 32/42s and upgrade those as well as our newer 52s to V standard. The radars from 52s could go down to the ADF fighters. If structural upgrade is available for A&Bs it should be strongly considered although when this occurs needs to be considered. For Example if we have 2000 hours on a plane will a structural upgrade allow us to extend it to 6000 hrs or only 4000hrs. So do we waste money by asking for structural upgrade earlier?
It maybe a more prudent approach. We do not want fleet wide upgarde barring structural one as most of our fleet of A&Bs is getting upto 40 years old. However the OCUs have a lot of aur frame life left on them.

Khafee made a case based upon circumstances, tid bits from around, progress & regional situation that deserved to be discussed for productivity, ideas and possible outcome.... and almost all of us agreed to give it a run.

The whole upgrade package wouldn't be done on the same time but will take a while. As you highlighted that let's utilize the remaining hours as well before going for upgrade to extend life; I am sure that we are looking at a setup taking months or an year for completion and during these times, existing fleet will fulfill responsibilities as designed. US$ 6 billion is initial suggested guesstimate to begin the work. I can be wrong on this account of "look like a leak" but I am afraid, can't go further.

MLU, SLEP & Viper upgrade; is the chatter & seems like that is where we are playing cards in timely manners in view of resources being poured in as well as the gap between 4 to 6 birds at a time.

 

[The Eagle]

only two main things are left one is
- Official withdrawal time table of US forces from Afghanistan which as per reports will be agreed in next meeting in Doha this month

- Other is the new all inclusive political setup for Afghanistan to which Taliban in principle has agreed but the modalities in this regards are still not agreed (or discussed), therefore visit of Taliban delegation to Pakistan after this Eid is most important in relation to this development

Agreed Sir. Khalilzad is in Pakistan and most probably will be telling the time frame as well as any agreement or disagreement in regard to demands from Taliban side as they are on the way after Eid (as expected).

Ghani been requesting a place in new political setup but there is Gulbadin to take part and the sold setup will have to leave. Ghani delayed elections for too long but lost everything in process. He was here previously and sought a lot of favours but I see that Pakistan made it clear as there will be no moles in Afghanistan. Seemingly, US acknowledges that how India utilizes Afghanistan land against Pakistan.

 

[Keysersoze]

Get f16s with Air refuelers and AWACS would be a great enhancement

The PAF already has refuelers and 10 AWACS. The F16's will likely get CFTs which add 42% extra fuel with a small drag penalty. Easier than keeping a tanker nearby in hostile sky.

 

[alphapak]

Pak should try to get the production line of F16's in Pakistan.

 

[The Eagle]

Lockheed Martin Corp., doing business as Lockheed Martin Aeronautics, Fort Worth, Texas, has been awarded a $799,955,939 firm-fixed-price incentive contract for F-16 aircraft production.

This contract provides for the production and support of 14 Slovak Republic F-16 block 70 aircraft. Work will be performed at Greenville, South Carolina, and is expected to be completed by Jan. 31, 2024. This contract award involves 100% foreign military sales to the Slovak Republic.

 

[PurpleButcher]

Lockheed Martin Corp., doing business as Lockheed Martin Aeronautics, Fort Worth, Texas, has been awarded a $799,955,939 firm-fixed-price incentive contract for F-16 aircraft production.

This contract provides for the production and support of 14 Slovak Republic F-16 block 70 aircraft. Work will be performed at Greenville, South Carolina, and is expected to be completed by Jan. 31, 2024. This contract award involves 100% foreign military sales to the Slovak Republic.

800 million/14= 57.4 million per aircraft .

so for 24 PAF Blk 70/72 aircrafts= 1.37 billion USD.

Am i missing something because shouldn't this be more expensive?

 

[zulu]

Waiting for Taliban to visit Islamabad there Ghani future gonna decided.Also check this article thanx to @Flight of falcon good find an year old article meant that things (incl finance) was on card for long time on PAF list
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...m-us-report/articleshow/51407397.cms?from=mdr

Agreed Sir. Khalilzad is in Pakistan and most probably will be telling the time frame as well as any agreement or disagreement in regard to demands from Taliban side as they are on the way after Eid (as expected).

Ghani been requesting a place in new political setup but there is Gulbadin to take part and the sold setup will have to leave. Ghani delayed elections for too long but lost everything in process. He was here previously and sought a lot of favours but I see that Pakistan made it clear as there will be no moles in Afghanistan. Seemingly, US acknowledges that how India utilizes Afghanistan land against Pakistan.

 

[Quwa]

800 million/14= 57.4 million per aircraft .

so for 24 PAF Blk 70/72 aircrafts= 1.37 billion USD.

Am i missing something because shouldn't this be more expensive?

The DSCA pricing will be around $150-190 m per aircraft, but that includes everything -- the aircraft, training, spare parts, infrastructure, etc. It's the maximum possible you'll spend on the program, and that too over 5-10 years.

The price you're quoting is the amount LM would get, and that's the amount Pakistan needs to have on hand (in cash, loan, or aid) in order to take delivery of the planes. The other 50% of the total contract would come through the PAF's annual ops/support budget; generally, if the F-16s replace older jets, then the money going into the older jets would now go to the F-16s.

 

[The Eagle]

800 million/14= 57.4 million per aircraft .

so for 24 PAF Blk 70/72 aircrafts= 1.37 billion USD.

Am i missing something because shouldn't this be more expensive?

The price quotes as fixed price incentive = LM money.
Yes, doesn't fit the price = calculation for Block-72. That may be the upgrade cost.

For example Morocco sale was approved with two separate contracts

1) for V upgrade to existing fleet of 23 F-16 C/D Block 52+ and
2) 25 F-16s Block-72 birds. Both contracts included the armaments/weapons etc.

Morocco V upgrade for 23 F-16 C/D Block 52+ with service/weapon = 985 $Million (43 million max per bird)
Morocco 25 new Block-72 with Weapons & support/service = 3.8 Billion $ (152 Million $ per bird)
Both offers included weapons & support/services.

So we can guess.

 

[MIRauf]

Finances - Sorted out. One whose brothers stand with him, is not an orphan..

Pak and PAF's performance on Feb 27 reignited the Brotherly Love ? I take it that Certain Crown Prince sees what a well armed and well trained PAF could do.

Now if US could throw in large number of F-404 for certain aircraft, imagine that...

I don't think that LM will transfer production line unless we are talking about 100+, which should be the case for joint Common platform between ( KSA, UAE, Pak and other GCC. ) If that could happen, hopefully Egypt is not allowed to derail it like F1 project.

 

[BATMAN]

Ya akhi, may God bless you and may your words be mubarik for Pakistan.

Long live Pakistan, long live Pak Arab friendship.

 

[Armchair]

BTW @Windjammer met the PAF chief, had some amazing revelations to make, which are supposedly going to be released soon by the PAF, started a thread, and then went cold. Not a peep. Now someone is claiming he was arrested by an intelligence agency, but that is just a rumor on pdf.

 

[GreyHat]

I might be getting ahead of myself but shouldn't we have pitched the purchasing of F-35 Lightning II as well.
F-16V's are great but we would more or less be at par with Rafale coming in region while PAF needs technological/quality edge on their side. Does anybody know if we pitched it or not because looking at our F-16 record, we could have gone with it.Along with V upgradation of existing fleet

 

[Armchair]

Pak and PAF's performance on Feb 27 reignited the Brotherly Love ? I take it that Certain Crown Prince sees what a well armed and well trained PAF could do.

Now if US could throw in large number of F-404 for certain aircraft, imagine that...

I don't think that LM will transfer production line unless we are talking about 100+, which should be the case for joint Common platform between ( KSA, UAE, Pak and other GCC. ) If that could happen, hopefully Egypt is not allowed to derail it like F1 project.

I think the correct way to go about this would be to offer Saudi a JF-17 production line. Why?

1. It plays to a strong Saudi undercurrent to produce things (specially weapons) at home. Saudis don't truly understand technology, defence and the workings of a military industrial complex. They just know how to throw money and "get a factory". South Africans have played nicely to this tune and so has China. It's Pak's turn now, if we are smart enough.

2. A Saudi production line that would produce 100 JFT for Saudi, UAE, Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Sudan, Oman and others would essentially be run by Pak engineers and expertise. This will benefit our industry in the long-term as we would have a ready-made reserve of technical expertise.

3. If Saudi makes them, no one can stop or play politics with them.

Other than the Gulf, the other market to look at is Turkey and Malaysia. Malaysia has a seriously bad air force equipment situation. Pak should and could step in to fix their air force. Pak is now the de facto expert on air defence, and can, with a high level delegation like we sent to the US, easily make a big deal with Mahatir. But the time is now, if Mahathir dies, it will be too late.

Turkey needs an F-35 replacement. This replacement was ideally going to be a high tech, heavy weight ground pounder. Something like an MKI would have fit the bill but if they don't go Russian, Pak could make a case for a specialized JFT -Block 4. Remember, this is for replacement of the F-4 Phantoms, something JFTs are fully capable of doing.

If we sell it to them as a local Turkish product with a host of Turkish equipment, and one that gives them foreign policy independence, we again have a good chance of selling a good number. Maybe 50-100 even.

If we make a concerted effort with high level negotiations like we did with the Americans, we can pull off a 200-300 plane JFT sale.

 

[Khafee]

@Khafee sir is there any plan for the production plant of f 16?

No.