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PAF Deploys to Northern Territories

What if or what not, but one thing is for sure. One of India's adversaries just become a missile (air) force (Air will be gone) after yesterday's Indo-Russian deal since there very little to no chance of escape for fighter plains from S-400 umbrella. They can forget thinking about air superiority (which itself is highly unlikely) and better find a good scenarios for the survival of their birds. :-)
wow , This one answer of your show how pathetic your knowledge is about this S-400 subject …..
Yes S-400 are dam good , but...………………………………….. I leave that but for your butthurt to sort out .
And first have those S-400 in India before jumping and burning you little A$$.
I have seen same randi runa when you guys bought Su-30 and Same chutiyapa when you bought Rafals . . Come up with some thing new ……. let that sir-g-kal strike genral write a new line for you bhartis ..
 
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Having to restrengthen the intake and then be forced to completely redesign it points to a major design flaw in the J-10A ... its not the same as a wing designed with 6 hard points. If the JF-17 had 8 hardpoints at inception and then had to use six due to engineering and design fault, then you would have a point but right now you don't. The current JF-17 wing is fully functional and fine. If there is plans to strengthen it, its an upgrade, same as anything else.

Back to J-10, the fact that it took PLAAF well over a decade just to start producing them in numbers is a telltale sign of a substandard product bar its paper specs. Btw, you think PAF will hide flaws but the PLAAF will not do the same for the J-10?

How is that no other country has bothered to buy that particular aircraft? There are plenty of clients of prior Chinese-made aircraft out there but we know two of them opted for JF-17. Maybe they see the value to cost more favorable for one over the other, similarly to what PAF realized?

Anyways, this debate is going to be pointless since no one here knows what is in the J-10 better than the PAF, as they have evaluated the aircraft and come to the conclusions that its not needed. I will defer to them as they know what they are doing while we are dealing with conjecture.
From my own reading I agree that there were major problems with the J10As. For PAF the addition of another platform with a Russian engine would have brought political complexities. There were design flaws/inadequacies in addition to what you stated. The 4 belly hardpoints were only good for small diameter bombs, so essentially you end up with what the JFT has ie 7HPs.I can't remember but the loitering range is no better than the JFT either. The time that PAF evaluated the J10B there were a couple of major J10 flame outs which pointed to engine reliability issues. The Chinese would firstly have wanted you to buy the A version before releasing the B one. Secondly the avionics of Chinese origin remain behind the available technology at least at that time. Whereas on JFT replacing them is not a problem, it would have become a bilaterally sensitive issue so PAF kept out of it.
I suspect in light of recent changes and progression the PAF given its empty pockets will have to choose very carefully for a fighter that gives them somewhat parity with the upcoming IAF acquisitions.
A

It will be a paradigm shift.
I want you to give your opinion on the following question with elaboration if possible please.
Is there a room for a separate fighter acquisition prior to going for a 5th generation fighter? If so what parameters would be of use in making that choice?
S
 
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wow , This one answer of your show how pathetic your knowledge is about this S-400 subject …..
Yes S-400 are dam good , but...………………………………….. I leave that but for your butthurt to sort out .
And first have those S-400 in India before jumping and burning you little A$$.
I have seen same randi runa when you guys bought Su-30 and Same chutiyapa when you bought Rafals . . Come up with some thing new ……. let that sir-g-kal strike genral write a new line for you bhartis ..

CHACHA G, cool no need to be so worried. As said they are just defensive ordinance. So nobody has to worry about it until they think and act mischievously. So go bite the chill pill. :-)
 
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PAF declined both the Flanker and Fulcrum in the 90s and J-10 more recently....what do you have to say about that genius.

So the Chinese decided to go with J-10 and not induct even a single squadron of JF-17 because they are stupid?

Regarding the Fulcrum I am not here to comment on fiction. :lol:
 
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Well, well, well claims again ??

Where is the source that say U.S.S.R (happy now) offered those birds and Pakistan politely denied them ?? lol :woot::woot::woot:

At least a single source???? :-)
The term headless Chicken does come to mind, tell me why would i claim, without substance to something which happened 50 years ago but since you come from an environment where everything seems to be propagated hence one can understand your dilemma. Here are two articles, one from 1969 and the other from 1972 which both mention your problem. Read from paragraph, ''Experience with MiG-21s.

08a82559544296ddd36d77f1f6849ef5-jpg.100434


https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1969/1969 - 0111.html?search=pakistan air force
 
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So the Chinese decided to go with J-10 and not induct even a single squadron of JF-17 because they are stupid?

Regarding the Fulcrum I am not here to comment on fiction. :lol:

PAF tested Su-27 & Mig-29 in 90s and declined that is reality.
 
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So the Chinese decided to go with J-10 and not induct even a single squadron of JF-17 because they are stupid?

Regarding the Fulcrum I am not here to comment on fiction. :lol:
No, actually its you the ultimate stupid, who can't even comprehend some basic explanation.
Besides i don't expect you to comprehend these images either.
And i can also burst your bubble on the Fulcrum e[episode.

images


Pakistan+air+force+JF-17+Thunder+FC-20+carryies+PL-12+%2528PiLi-12%2529+SD-10+%2528ShanDian-10%2529+BVRAAM+%2528Beyond+visual+range+Air+to+Air+Missile%2529+People%2527s+Liberation+Army+ariforce++%25282%2529.jpg
 
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PAF tested Su-27 & Mig-29 in 90s and declined that is reality.

Yes that's a reality in some parallel universe.

No, actually its you the ultimate stupid, who can't even comprehend some basic explanation.
Besides i don't expect you to comprehend these images either.
And i can also burst your bubble on the Fulcrum e[episode.

images


Pakistan+air+force+JF-17+Thunder+FC-20+carryies+PL-12+%2528PiLi-12%2529+SD-10+%2528ShanDian-10%2529+BVRAAM+%2528Beyond+visual+range+Air+to+Air+Missile%2529+People%2527s+Liberation+Army+ariforce++%25282%2529.jpg

And what point are you trying to make by posting a random picture? :woot:
 
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Yes that's a the reality in some parallel universe.



And what point are you trying to make by posting a random picture? :woot:

Hope people like you are sitting in IAF so it will make things easier for PAF if war broke.
 
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Hope people like you are sitting in IAF so it will make things easier for PAF if war broke.

You know, you can simply back up your claim of PAF testing Su-27 and Mig-29 by providing a reference? :what:
 
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How many people here thinks JF-17 (current , don't bring future block III or what ever) can take down SU-30 of IAF (In future RAFs)??????????????
And how many of you think PAF can replace or should replace Mirages(delta wing) with Light Weight JF-17 ????

Having only JF-17 will be suicidal !!!!!!!(check history) . . Better to replace Mirages with J-10 or any heavy twin engine .

Edit: Few years back a very fine young man (engineer) told me one thing with joy and tears in his eyes " Uncle we have a very nice an good bird in our hands we will build 200 of them to replace A-5s and F-6s and some old F-7s" . . And then he talked about what our birds can and cannot do.
I don't know what is changed now , but I will trust his words more then any ACM of the day.
Not denying the validity of your questions, I would put down for you the dilemma facing the PAF(purely my own assumptions so feel free to tear it to shreads).
A. PAF and Pak land is broke. Being a small economy at the best of times we face an adversary that will always bring superior numbers and now technology.
B. We sit at the cusp of technology change with changes occurring so rapidly that as soon as you have bought a plane it is outdated(A relative exaggeration for explanation only).
C. We have a dearth of sellers as the best tech providers are shying away from us because we cannot splash the money out.
So I the light of the above evaluate your platforms and see what you come up with. Essentially most EU and US products are out on that basis due to either expense or Sanctions. Then look at something that will bring you parity with
a. The platforms at the enemy's disposal.
b. Their buying power .
c. The technological superiority they are going to have with the Rafale induction.
To me it seems we will use a defensive strategy of guarding our own airspace as it gives us a certain advantage( you need a 3:1 advantage in offence to be successful).
If you see the matrix which faces the acquisition of the PAF you will realize
A. The current emphasis is on having superior pilot to plane ratio and training(again questionable as IAF is also advancing and growing in confidence).
B. Platforms (F16s being questionable for long term conflicts but JFT and others very relevant) that can be turned around rapidly for a sortie.
C. Quicker mobilization and deployment of existing strength to areas of need.
1. So for a war today(limited scale) we are OK ish as we have 120+76=196 BVR capable platforms as against 232MKIs +50Mirage 2K + ?100M29s=282 unit
2. For a war in 2023 we will have 170 units to their 362 units(36 Rafales plus 40 more MKIs).
I fully understand the numbers game does not take into account the complexity the Rafale brings to the threat matrix.
So if you look at that you need a platforms that would be superior to the Rafale and the Upgraded MKIs and M2Ks &M29s.
Evaluation of that platform is where our problem lies specially in view of our lean pockets.
We can get the EFT and it will bring us parity but not superiority.
We can look at the SU35/J11/16s again with possible parity but no superiority.
The same can be said for the 16 Bl.70s. We therefore need a 5th generation fighter which even in 2 squadron strength will give us a massive advantage at a high price but a superior outcome. There is an on going requirement debate for an additional late 4th generation fighter to do the donkey work. However my humble opinion remains that this sid3 of 2030 we can only afford to buy 1 fighter type.
You can see that jumping because you are worried aside, we are realistically not in a position to buy a suitable platform which will have a deterrent value high enough for the enemy to stay away.
A
 
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Have the Chinese finally realised that the JF-17 is actually a pretty decent fighter and have decided to induct it?
JF-17/FC-1 is designed for PAF totally. And PLAAF and PLAN aren't interested in light-weight fighters any more.
 
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Rather than pointing me towards some random blog, why don't you tell me what exactly were you trying to say by posting a picture of J-10 and J-17 sitting on the tarmac together?

Have the Chinese finally realised that the JF-17 is actually a pretty decent fighter and have decided to induct it?
There you go again, JF-17 is design/develop by china especially for Pakistan/PAF, there are other reasons that they are not inducted by PLAAF, China is a huge country (4th largest by an area) they need to cover vast swath of their county so they need heavies and medium weight fighter jets with better payloads, better range, better electronics (avionics radars) etc etc, to petrol to their vast swath of their country @Roybot :hitwall::crazy::hitwall:
 
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