What's new

PAF Chief in China to discuss upgradation of JF-17, plans to acquire 200 fighters

JF-17 is a great Air Craft and we are going for lot of them and yes we would also buy more F-16 and may be J-10 B too
Bro,
J-10 no it does not have the required performance. It is no doubt good and has higher payload if we compare it with JF-17's.

JF-17 Blk III = J-10 B/C hence it would not enter PAF.

F-16's old and then MLU would cost the same as that of JF-17blk III which can last much longer and be 100% sanction proof.

Replacement of 90-100 F-16's that PAF has will be done with a 5th gen (J-31/ J-20 / TFX / KFX / F-35 if offered).

PN requires some thing that is capable of deep penetration hence J-11D/J-15 or some other...

I am just pointing at the timeframe...you can very well replace all aging fighters with Chinese planes...however it will take a little longer..though putting all eggs in one basket is usually discouraged...but then either PAF has to put up lots of money or look the Chinese way...
You are correct about not putting all the eggs in one basket.

The time-frame of one year is possible because PAF has been flying the J-11 series for ages. Same is the case for Euro Fighter Typhoon and Mirage 2000's though these are not Chinese.
 
.
in one year you can got only these 200 planes
Chinese-J10-model-Alloy-font-b-toy-b-font-font-b-plane-b-font-font-b.jpg
 
.
Pakistan Looking To Buy China's J-31 Stealth Fighter
Tyler Rogoway
Tyler Rogoway

erqrqyeafrduz1olk1bz.jpg

As I predicted since the very first blurry images of J-31 hit the internet, China's youngest stealth project was meant for export as much as for PLAAF use. Pakistan is now said to be beyond the initial discussion phase for buying the stealth jet. This comes during a time of increasing tension with India, whose air combat capabilities have ballooned over the last decade.

Amazing Photos Of China's Newest Stealth Jet Show Growing Air Might Amazing Photos Of China's Newest Stealth Jet Show Growing Air Might Amazing Photos Of China's Newest Stealth Jet S
China's tenth annual International Aviation & Aerospace Exhibition in Zhahai kicked off.
The Chinese-Pakistani arms trading relationship goes back many decades, and as relations with the US continue to chill, Pakistan is looking for a more stable supply source for its air combat needs. This is nothing new, in fact this happened fifty years ago after the Indo-Pakistan War of 1965, when the US placed an embargo in weapons sales to Pakistan. This resulted in Pakistan turning to China for combat aircraft, specifically, the Shenyang F-6, a clone of the Russian MiG-19. Since then the Pakistani Air Force has also fielded Q-5s and F-7s from China, of which the MiG-21 based F-7s are still are in use today. Although somewhat archaic in complexity, these Chinese aircraft have been fielded alongside American F-16s and French Mirages for decades.
lod0h9dhvdkvnucx1ukj.jpg
1
Tyler, I love your articles, in fact I forward most of them around my defense industry office, but PLEASE caption your images. I had to spend 2 hours figuring out the differences between the F15/16/18 yesterday, and I make things that go ON them all.

The largest deviation into Chinese-based air combat procurement Pakistan has made in recent years was with its jointly developed JF-17 'Thunder' (known as FC-1 in China) light fighter. This nimble and reliable jet is now in its second design evolution as the improved JF-17 Block II, with a third evolution being fielded later this decade.
Pakistan has viewed this cooperative fighter jet program as a giant success, not just in value and enhanced combat capability, but in potential future exportability. Pakistan's Rana Tanveer Hussain, minister of defense production, states in an article from Dawn.com:
"We have nearly confirmed orders from seven countries for JF-17... The PAF has a requirement of 250 aircraft, but now we have decided that we'll sell some of the JF-17 Block-2 to international buyers besides fulfilling our local demand."
yqtbzhngnasvqegljoxg.jpg

This may be a similar direction that Pakistan will attempt to head when it comes to the J-31, known in its export configuration as the JF-31. Both the JF-31 and the JF-17 share the same Russian Klimov RD93 engines (also found in the MiG-29), which presents certain sustainment and commonality synergies for the Pakistani Air Force. The JF-31 may also allow Pakistan to retire other aircraft and focus on it and the JF-17 for its future combat capability, presenting a relevant and sustainable high-low air combat capability mix.
Currently, the highest-end combat aircraft flown by the Pakistani Air Force are Block 52 F-16s, of which 18 were controversially delivered just a few years ago. Although these fighters are incredibly capable, they are also stringently controlled by US arms export rules and serviced by forward deployed contractors. Export control seals are said to be placed on many of the aircraft's most cutting edge components. Even trackers are rumored to be embedded in the jets that allow the US to monitor their whereabouts and if the US ever saw the jets being used for something it was totally against, there are rumors that they could be disabled in an instant and remotely. Just the US security contingent that is part of the F-16C/D Block 52 export contract is said to cost Pakistan some $30M a year.
nvlw6s6nquvgitfex9am.jpg

Even if the rumors of exotic export control devices are not true, just pulling OEM support for the advanced F-16s could leave many of their most important sensors and systems useless within a very short period of time. Additionally, Pakistan already went through one F-16 embargo and it was not pretty, many of those aircraft, built at the tail-end of the F-16A/B production run, now fly with the Navy's Strike Fighter Weapons School, otherwise known as TOPGUN.
As for procuring the stealthy J-31, Jane's Defence quoted an unidentified Pakistani official as saying that the Pakistani Air Force was in talks with China to buy 30 to 40 of the Shenyang FC-31 stealth jets, which corroborates similar numbers and statements that have been floating around the defense community for months.
airalwrl4ekmeub6ldio.jpg

The biggest thing Pakistan would gain by fielding the JF-31 is a low-observable fighter aircraft that would make some strides at leveling the India-Pakistan air combat equation. India has procured throngs of advanced fighters in the last decade and half, including hundreds of thrust-vectoring Su-30MKIs and dozens of carrier-capable MiG-29Ks. Additionally, many older Indian fighters have been substantially upgraded with new avionics and cutting edge jamming systems.

Taking Off In A MiG-29K From A Carrier At Night Is A Fiery Thrill Taking Off In A MiG-29K From A Carrier At Night Is A Fiery Thrill Taking Off In A MiG-29K From A Carrier At Night Is
The Indian Navy's young and potent MiG-29K fleet gives their long-awaited aircraft carrier.
India did not stop there when it comes to increasing their air combat might. The Multi-Role Combat Aircraft contract, which will see the French Dassault Rafale flying in Indian colors in coming years. This brings one of the West's most advanced fighters, with a high degree of sensor fusion, to the region, and the stealthy Russian-Indian PGFA fighter program also continues to evolve. That aircraft will be based on Russia's 5th generation stealthy fighter design, the Sukhoi T-50. Finally, India has its own JF-17 like program that is fairly mature, known as the 'Tejas" light combat aircraft. This is mostly indigenous design that is just beginning to be fielded now and will be both land and carrier capable.
tnhzxnckrzi1dueivqld.jpg

What this all adds up to is a vast imbalance of future air combat capabilities between the two nuclear armed and constantly unfriendly neighbors. Fielding the JF-31 would be an attempt by Pakistan of forestalling India's rapidly increasing aerial dominance.
jrtmpu1ock5tud3cnism.jpg

For China, Pakistan would give the J-31 a first export customer and would help offset some of its development costs. Developing two low observable fighters at a one time is not a cheap task, and partnering up for the J-31 could allow more funds to be funneled to the more impressive and strategically relevant J-20 program.
Strangely enough, Pakistan, the US and China's roads have crossed before when it comes to stealth technology. The tail of the stealth chopper that was used in the Bin Laden raid of 2011 was trucked from the site by Pakistani forces and China was given exclusive access to it before it was finally returned to the US at John Kerry's in person request. This was seen as a retaliation for America's unilateral and humiliating action against the Bin Laden compound, located deep in Pakistani territory.
It is a little more than ironic that some of the technology gleaned from that tail is likely embedded into the J-31. Just another reminder of the tightrope the US continues to walk in Pakistan and how for many countries, the international super-power alternative to the US is increasingly China.
 
.
You are correct about not putting all the eggs in one basket.

The time-frame of one year is possible because PAF has been flying the J-11 series for ages. Same is the case for Euro Fighter Typhoon and Mirage 2000's though these are not Chinese.
doesn't matter....its been 2 decades since we are flying MKI's...we have mastered this plane however still if Russia say's i am going to give you 200 more in a year...our answer would be sorry..we can't consume these many in such a short span...we are talking about fighter jets not some specific brand clothes here that can be bought right from the store and kept in some corner..to be worn on some special occasion.....also nobody has that kind of production capacity...why not?? because it is not economically prudent and to be honest foolish..
 
.
Pakistan Looking To Buy China's J-31 Stealth Fighter
Tyler Rogoway
Tyler Rogoway

erqrqyeafrduz1olk1bz.jpg

As I predicted since the very first blurry images of J-31 hit the internet, China's youngest stealth project was meant for export as much as for PLAAF use. Pakistan is now said to be beyond the initial discussion phase for buying the stealth jet. This comes during a time of increasing tension with India, whose air combat capabilities have ballooned over the last decade.

Amazing Photos Of China's Newest Stealth Jet Show Growing Air Might Amazing Photos Of China's Newest Stealth Jet Show Growing Air Might Amazing Photos Of China's Newest Stealth Jet S
China's tenth annual International Aviation & Aerospace Exhibition in Zhahai kicked off.
The Chinese-Pakistani arms trading relationship goes back many decades, and as relations with the US continue to chill, Pakistan is looking for a more stable supply source for its air combat needs. This is nothing new, in fact this happened fifty years ago after the Indo-Pakistan War of 1965, when the US placed an embargo in weapons sales to Pakistan. This resulted in Pakistan turning to China for combat aircraft, specifically, the Shenyang F-6, a clone of the Russian MiG-19. Since then the Pakistani Air Force has also fielded Q-5s and F-7s from China, of which the MiG-21 based F-7s are still are in use today. Although somewhat archaic in complexity, these Chinese aircraft have been fielded alongside American F-16s and French Mirages for decades.
lod0h9dhvdkvnucx1ukj.jpg
1
Tyler, I love your articles, in fact I forward most of them around my defense industry office, but PLEASE caption your images. I had to spend 2 hours figuring out the differences between the F15/16/18 yesterday, and I make things that go ON them all.

The largest deviation into Chinese-based air combat procurement Pakistan has made in recent years was with its jointly developed JF-17 'Thunder' (known as FC-1 in China) light fighter. This nimble and reliable jet is now in its second design evolution as the improved JF-17 Block II, with a third evolution being fielded later this decade.
Pakistan has viewed this cooperative fighter jet program as a giant success, not just in value and enhanced combat capability, but in potential future exportability. Pakistan's Rana Tanveer Hussain, minister of defense production, states in an article from Dawn.com:
"We have nearly confirmed orders from seven countries for JF-17... The PAF has a requirement of 250 aircraft, but now we have decided that we'll sell some of the JF-17 Block-2 to international buyers besides fulfilling our local demand."
yqtbzhngnasvqegljoxg.jpg

This may be a similar direction that Pakistan will attempt to head when it comes to the J-31, known in its export configuration as the JF-31. Both the JF-31 and the JF-17 share the same Russian Klimov RD93 engines (also found in the MiG-29), which presents certain sustainment and commonality synergies for the Pakistani Air Force. The JF-31 may also allow Pakistan to retire other aircraft and focus on it and the JF-17 for its future combat capability, presenting a relevant and sustainable high-low air combat capability mix.
Currently, the highest-end combat aircraft flown by the Pakistani Air Force are Block 52 F-16s, of which 18 were controversially delivered just a few years ago. Although these fighters are incredibly capable, they are also stringently controlled by US arms export rules and serviced by forward deployed contractors. Export control seals are said to be placed on many of the aircraft's most cutting edge components. Even trackers are rumored to be embedded in the jets that allow the US to monitor their whereabouts and if the US ever saw the jets being used for something it was totally against, there are rumors that they could be disabled in an instant and remotely. Just the US security contingent that is part of the F-16C/D Block 52 export contract is said to cost Pakistan some $30M a year.
nvlw6s6nquvgitfex9am.jpg

Even if the rumors of exotic export control devices are not true, just pulling OEM support for the advanced F-16s could leave many of their most important sensors and systems useless within a very short period of time. Additionally, Pakistan already went through one F-16 embargo and it was not pretty, many of those aircraft, built at the tail-end of the F-16A/B production run, now fly with the Navy's Strike Fighter Weapons School, otherwise known as TOPGUN.
As for procuring the stealthy J-31, Jane's Defence quoted an unidentified Pakistani official as saying that the Pakistani Air Force was in talks with China to buy 30 to 40 of the Shenyang FC-31 stealth jets, which corroborates similar numbers and statements that have been floating around the defense community for months.
airalwrl4ekmeub6ldio.jpg

The biggest thing Pakistan would gain by fielding the JF-31 is a low-observable fighter aircraft that would make some strides at leveling the Inida-Pakistan air combat equation. India has procured throngs of advanced fighters in the last decade and half, including hundreds of thrust-vectoring Su-30MKIs and dozens of carrier-capable MiG-29Ks. Additionally, many older Indian fighters have been substantially upgraded with new avionics and cutting edge jamming systems.

Taking Off In A MiG-29K From A Carrier At Night Is A Fiery Thrill Taking Off In A MiG-29K From A Carrier At Night Is A Fiery Thrill Taking Off In A MiG-29K From A Carrier At Night Is
The Indian Navy's young and potent MiG-29K fleet gives their long-awaited aircraft carrier.
India did not stop there when it comes to increasing their air combat might. The Multi-Role Combat Aircraft contract, which will see the French Dassault Rafale flying in Indian colors in coming years. This brings one of the West's most advanced fighters, with a high degree of sensor fusion, to the region, and the stealthy Russian-Indian PGFA fighter program also continues to evolve. That aircraft will be based on Russia's 5th generation stealthy fighter design, the Sukhoi T-50. Finally, India has its own JF-17 like program that is fairly mature, known as the 'Tejas" light combat aircraft. This is mostly indigenous design that is just beginning to be fielded now and will be both land and carrier capable.
tnhzxnckrzi1dueivqld.jpg

What this all adds up to is a vast imbalance of future air combat capabilities between the two nuclear armed and constantly unfriendly neighbors. Fielding the JF-31 would be an attempt by Pakistan of forestalling India's rapidly increasing aerial dominance.
jrtmpu1ock5tud3cnism.jpg

For China, Pakistan would give the J-31 a first export customer and would help offset some of its development costs. Developing two low observable fighters at a one time is not a cheap task, and partnering up for the J-31 could allow more funds to be funneled to the more impressive and strategically relevant J-20 program.
Strangely enough, Pakistan, the US and China's roads have crossed before when it comes to stealth technology. The tail of the stealth chopper that was used in the Bin Laden raid of 2011 was trucked from the site by Pakistani forces and China was given exclusive access to it before it was finally returned to the US at John Kerry's in person request. This was seen as a retaliation for America's unilateral and humiliating action against the Bin Laden compound, located deep in Pakistani territory.
It is a little more than ironic that some of the technology gleaned from that tail is likely embedded into the J-31. Just another reminder of the tightrope the US continues to walk in Pakistan and how for many countries, the international super-power alternative to the US is increasingly China.
We need three 4.5 Generation platforms J-10B and JF-17 and F-16 than our focus should be J-20
 
.
We need three 4.5 Generation platforms J-10B and JF-17 and F-16 than our focus should be J-20



China does not plan on selling J-20 to any country ( not even Pakistan ).

It is not for Export.

Only for PLAAF.

I am tired of explaining to people here that there is ZERO chance of Pakistan acquiring J-10B as we would rather have the same technology added to our JF-17 Blk III and go for a fifth generation Fighter like J-31.
 
.
The comparison cannot be done as one is Army Special Forces (SSG) and other other is a Paramilitray Special Force (NSG). The roles, operational existence, equipment, deployment philosophy etc etc are different although the Army SSG may sometimes be used for MOUT and semi-Urban assaults. Whereas Paramilitary forces such as NSG are exclusive to civilian and urban roles and no militray role.

Good comparison will come if you compare the US Special Weapons & Tactics (SWAT) Squad to the Indian NSG! Unfortunately, Pakistan does not have a comparable paramilitray force such as the NSG!
And I am telling we would go for J-10 B
 
.
China does not plan on selling J-20 to any country ( not even Pakistan ).

It is not for Export.

Only for PLAAF.

I am tired of explaining to people here that there is ZERO chance of Pakistan acquiring J-10B as we would rather have the same technology added to our JF-17 Blk III and go for a fifth generation Fighter like J-31.

Why China don't Sell J10B ? It always puzzle me .When they can sell the same to Argentina At least talks are going on the issue .

And I am telling we would go for J-10 B

But who will sell J10B ? Even if they sell the cost could be over 50-60 mill or even more .
 
.
Why China don't Sell J10B ? It always puzzle me .When they can sell the same to Argentina At least talks are going on the issue .



But who will sell J10B ? Even if they sell the cost could be over 50-60 mill or even more .

It is not that China won't sell us J-10B.

We don't want J-10B anymore.

We would rather buy the export version of their 5th Gen. aircraft than a 4th Gen. J-10B.

The main advantage with J10B for us is its AESA Radar , but we would have the AESA Radar with our JF-17 Blk 3 so why introduce another aircraft in our inventory. On the other hand, J-31 is a 5th Gen. Fighter and China is keen on selling that aircraft to Pakistan Air Force. In one more year we will be producing JF17 Blk 3 with its AESA Radar, so we can wait few years to get our hands on JF-31.
 
.
:D
Old let's test your IQ now .

Do u even aware of numbers ? Counting systems ? I mentioned clearly it's in near future ...

2) So are you saying India won't induct AMCA Tejas FGFA Super Sukoi ? Is that what you want to belive ?

3) And why do you think Russians and American Airforce are inferior to PLAAF ? Because they have J20 and J31 prototypes ? :fie: God save poor Russian Airforce and American airforce .

4) LOL this is the fun part .
:haha:

It means Tejas MK1 as speculated will be produced in huge numbers - 100 in total .And all will have AESA radar and EW suite making it most potent point defence fighter in the world .Even gripin NG will be available from 2017 :haha: .

When are you buying J10B and J11 ?:haha:

When India buy 36 rafale you want J11/10B in same number .And what will be your answer to Tejas MK1-P and later long range Tejas MK2 :haha:

And for your king information .As of now 36 rafale ,270 Sukoi 30MKi ,40 Tejas MK1 already ordered.

Again if you think India won't buy AMCA FGFA & Tej MK2 .Then well get ready to be embarrassed because u have one measurements for India and another for China :flood:
Is J31 j20 inducted ?

Making prototype is one thing but making battle superior fighter is another :big_boss:

India is already struggling with Tejas mk1.
Texas mk2 is on papers.
Rafael is 2,3 years away at least. And will be inducted in limited numbers.
FGFA is also on papers yet. As Russians progress on Su50 is not fast enough and they are avoiding tot with India. So how is India going to develop FGFA. With all such things in mind u r saying that we will beat PLAAF in numbers but in reality u r struggling to replace ur old aircrafts in near future. For me near future is 3-5 years. And sorry I only see troubles in the way of IAF
 
.
Atleast senior members should not start a thread if its already posted .. its simply not expected of them
 
.
Sir we have 50 Jf-17 no ?? at least that is what i know so far ??
block 2 is under construction . after that we will have 100 JF's .. or unless you are making a breaking news for me :D

No I am not breaking any news its simple 50 blk-I are operational another 50 JF-17 blk-II are 'under construction' (& as per previous reports PAC has already built around 10 jets till the month of Feb or March this year) so as per previous order 50 blk-I+50 blk-II=100
 
.
No I am not breaking any news its simple 50 blk-I are operational another 50 JF-17 blk-II are 'under construction' (& as per previous reports PAC has already built around 10 jets till the month of Feb or March this year) so as per previous order 50 blk-I+50 blk-II=100

ok .. but they are still under Construction ..
but can you tell me that we have this agreement with China , that JF will be constructed both in Pakistan and China ...
so can we expect China is also Producing additional JF-17 ?
 
.
but can you tell me that we have this agreement with China , that JF will be constructed both in Pakistan and China ...
so can we expect China is also Producing additional JF-17 ?

I don't think that anybody at the forum will have any more knowledge about PAK-CHINA agreement related to JF-17 production other than some media reports, but we have one pic of blk-II which indicates the second production line for JF-17 in China is also active (no country will activate production line to built only one jet)

JF-17 0213 in CHINA.JPG
 
Last edited:
.
I don't think that anybody at the forum will have any more knowledge about PAK-CHINA agreement related to JF-17 production other than some media reports, but we have one pic of blk-II which indicates the second production line for JF-17 in China is also active (no country will activate production line to built only one jet)

View attachment 227083

is it just me , or the IFR probe is missing ?
 
.

Latest posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom