PAF CAS confirmed the SU-30MKI kill in addition to MiG-21 Bison - Alan Warnes

[Psychic]

Glad to inform you that the Racoons will survive. Cheers

View attachment 562733

holes in roof theory already debunked by int'l media based on sat images.

The image is virtually unchanged from an April 2018 satellite photo of the facility. There are no discernible holes in the roofs of buildings, no signs of scorching, blown-out walls, displaced trees around the madrasa or other signs of an aerial attack.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...standing-at-indian-bombing-site-idUSKCN1QN00V

I know getting thrashed by a force having 9 times less defence budget is not easy to digest.

 

[Flight of falcon]

Many senior memebers and international observer dont consider second claim legitimate till more proof comes...but can you yourself or produce any india who not only accepts tht there is lack of evidence but evidence against f16 being shot down(usa count)...
At least we have no evidence against su30 shot down claim but instead dubious IAF claims like balakot، mi17 fiasco going

India has a lot to answer and pak

The SPICE debris, which was identified in the craters, was picked up from the north most target, where it was genuinely used. Moreover, the craters which the Pak Army showed are from a High explosive warhead and not a penetrator warhead. It been debunked in this article well -
Look for the following in this article by an ex vet from IAF -
1. Shows 3 clear holes in at least one target in Balakot
2. Shows the difference between penetrator and high explosive craters - the one shown outside the camp is from a high explosive and NOT penetrator shell as used by IAF - exposes the cover up
3. The DG ISPR, took the foreign observers after 43 days to show the camp, and that too the actual targeted building was NOT shown, nor were the journals allowed to speak with anyone. read the article above

On the miss - this is a good read https://theprint.in/defence/austral...inary-holes-in-iaf-strikes-on-balakot/213970/

BTW, there is another theory, crazy as it sounds, but basis an eyewitness who was injured in that outside explosion - he heard aircraft BEFORE the explosions. Vishnu Som and Sameer Joshi (both professionals) in India insinuate that the PAF hastily bombed to create impression of miss. It does sound stupid, but then a lot of things that happen under duress can be termed as stupidity.



Total 4 Spice bombs were used. 3 hit that target, 2 more on other targets as per article - https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/bal...mages-of-the-balakot-air-strikes-show-2006941



Because it was precision bombs of the penetrator version used. The other Crystal Maze was NOT fired, which would have shown those spectacular explosions - https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/exc...e-in-pakistans-balakot-by-mirage-2000-2028332



Don't know that. But probably to have enough bombs, maybe overlapping to ensure that maximum damage was done. BTW there is another report that the IAF has only the penetrator version of the Spice, purchased exclusively by bunker defended targets. So maybe there was a requirement to use more than one to get more effect. But not sure




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BLU-109_bomb

.
The BLU-109 has nearly 250 kg of warhead as compared to the 80 kg on the SPICE. Both are designed to penetrate and explode, thats which the BLU 109 warhead explodes 20 milliseconds after penetration. The difference is that it would take 3 SPICE bombs to explode at the same time to have effect of one BLU 109 - which did NOT happen - so the building is still standing



RAPHAEL is OEM



No video feed from Spice in Auto mode. The feed was to come from Crystal Maze bombs, which stupidly were not fired. That also explains the 12 Mirages required. As per Vishnu's article the aircraft with Crystal Maze came back without firing. Very stupid in my opinion, they should have fired anyway, at least you guys would have had a total proof of the strike



The craters were formed by GP munition because Pakistan did not realise that IAF had used ONLY penetrators, so when the false explosions were carried out, the Pak Army )or PAF) used GP munition - which gives away the cover up well

As I said, half the M2000 came back. Rest fired 5 Spice bombs. All hit the Balakot camp as given in the articles above.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/b...strike-shows-how-hard-precision-bombing-49397

I agree with the author in the above piece. It takes more than precise weapons to achieve a hit. Thats why the IAF aircraft had to enter Azad Kashmir, probably to get the correct geometry of attack. And thats why the PAF SOWs had range errors as widely reported on Twitter by Indian sources. They fired everything well off the range. It would be good if the PAF releases the attack videos. Can shut people like me and the IAF for good.

And lastly - you showed Su-30s in a photo and asked why they are not positioned at Srinagar. Its obvious, there is no reaction time for them, in the same way that you will not position any F 16s at a base which is 4 min away if IAF decides to strike. Its not rocket science

Thank You



Sir all I am saying is at least take a look at this photo. I believe the authenticity of same because it is there on open social media for all of us to asses. Don't discount something away, just because its coming from an India. Similarly I take that claim by PAF of a Su 30 very seriously, looking for any debris or shoot down video on same.

Please refer the twitter feed -

https://twitter.com/x/status/1123921210046320640

When kids are born they get slapped on their bum to clear their airway and get their digestive system going. You should
Have been slapped on your face for being too stupid. I decided
Not to read your post. We are talking about high explosives in thousands of pounds and no visible damage. I have seen pictures of suicide bombings with 10 kg suicide jackets and they blow the roof off the house or structure.

Here is the news report of visit 48 hours after the bombing.

You and your entire nation has gone down the drain thanks to Modi and Modi’s armed forces. Instead of showing bravery you guys want to type bravery .. good luck.

 

[Army research]

The SPICE debris, which was identified in the craters, was picked up from the north most target, where it was genuinely used. Moreover, the craters which the Pak Army showed are from a High explosive warhead and not a penetrator warhead. It been debunked in this article well -
Look for the following in this article by an ex vet from IAF -
1. Shows 3 clear holes in at least one target in Balakot
2. Shows the difference between penetrator and high explosive craters - the one shown outside the camp is from a high explosive and NOT penetrator shell as used by IAF - exposes the cover up
3. The DG ISPR, took the foreign observers after 43 days to show the camp, and that too the actual targeted building was NOT shown, nor were the journals allowed to speak with anyone. read the article above

On the miss - this is a good read https://theprint.in/defence/austral...inary-holes-in-iaf-strikes-on-balakot/213970/

BTW, there is another theory, crazy as it sounds, but basis an eyewitness who was injured in that outside explosion - he heard aircraft BEFORE the explosions. Vishnu Som and Sameer Joshi (both professionals) in India insinuate that the PAF hastily bombed to create impression of miss. It does sound stupid, but then a lot of things that happen under duress can be termed as stupidity.



Total 4 Spice bombs were used. 3 hit that target, 2 more on other targets as per article - https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/bal...mages-of-the-balakot-air-strikes-show-2006941



Because it was precision bombs of the penetrator version used. The other Crystal Maze was NOT fired, which would have shown those spectacular explosions - https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/exc...e-in-pakistans-balakot-by-mirage-2000-2028332



Don't know that. But probably to have enough bombs, maybe overlapping to ensure that maximum damage was done. BTW there is another report that the IAF has only the penetrator version of the Spice, purchased exclusively by bunker defended targets. So maybe there was a requirement to use more than one to get more effect. But not sure




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BLU-109_bomb

.
The BLU-109 has nearly 250 kg of warhead as compared to the 80 kg on the SPICE. Both are designed to penetrate and explode, thats which the BLU 109 warhead explodes 20 milliseconds after penetration. The difference is that it would take 3 SPICE bombs to explode at the same time to have effect of one BLU 109 - which did NOT happen - so the building is still standing



RAPHAEL is OEM



No video feed from Spice in Auto mode. The feed was to come from Crystal Maze bombs, which stupidly were not fired. That also explains the 12 Mirages required. As per Vishnu's article the aircraft with Crystal Maze came back without firing. Very stupid in my opinion, they should have fired anyway, at least you guys would have had a total proof of the strike



The craters were formed by GP munition because Pakistan did not realise that IAF had used ONLY penetrators, so when the false explosions were carried out, the Pak Army )or PAF) used GP munition - which gives away the cover up well

As I said, half the M2000 came back. Rest fired 5 Spice bombs. All hit the Balakot camp as given in the articles above.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/b...strike-shows-how-hard-precision-bombing-49397

I agree with the author in the above piece. It takes more than precise weapons to achieve a hit. Thats why the IAF aircraft had to enter Azad Kashmir, probably to get the correct geometry of attack. And thats why the PAF SOWs had range errors as widely reported on Twitter by Indian sources. They fired everything well off the range. It would be good if the PAF releases the attack videos. Can shut people like me and the IAF for good.

And lastly - you showed Su-30s in a photo and asked why they are not positioned at Srinagar. Its obvious, there is no reaction time for them, in the same way that you will not position any F 16s at a base which is 4 min away if IAF decides to strike. Its not rocket science

Thank You



Sir all I am saying is at least take a look at this photo. I believe the authenticity of same because it is there on open social media for all of us to asses. Don't discount something away, just because its coming from an India. Similarly I take that claim by PAF of a Su 30 very seriously, looking for any debris or shoot down video on same.

Please refer the twitter feed -

https://twitter.com/x/status/1123921210046320640

Oh kakay, bunker buster vi bunker ich ghuss kay phatata hai, aur lohay ki chadder aur aam aeenth ka bunker 2000lb bomb say Mars pounch jaye

 

[Ultima Thule]

Bravery in modern combat is as good as dead!

Fighter pilots are system operators and fly their jets in a highly mechanical way. I fly an Airbus 320, its is flown following a set of procedures - caters to the dumbest of all pilots, one needs to just follow what is given the flight manual. Back to combat flying - BVR combat over the years is dictated with LR detection and weapons, which further takes away the element of 'bravery'. You fire a salvo of missiles and hopefully one of them will get the poor sod on the other side (if fired in NEZ) or a stupid pilot on other side does not respect the lethal zone of the missile. Technology is making the difference here, NOT bravery.

Fighter pilots need to be bold and calculative, yes require motivation and patience - but necessary don't have to be Brave. The game on offence and defence on both sides is to follow the right tactics - which will determine if you get a kill or be safe from your adversary. In some cases, one needs to have the presence of mind to withdraw against an enemy with longer range weapons and tactically come back in a different manner against him. Withdrawl is not defeat or cowardice, withdrawal is a necessary manoeuvre dictated by tactics. This is the new genre of air combat. We can possibly debunk the rest in our history books or when we give flowery commendation to a kill by a missile.

Abhi however displayed that spark of bravery. Which I feel is pig headed and suicidal, not called for under that circumstance. Obviously he was shot down, but look what happened - the PAF, in spite of having slip ups in Op Retort, managed to still achieve their aim - Why? Because one stupid IAF pilot crossed the LOC violating the tactics of BVR combat. So while it was 'bravery' displayed by Abhi in person, it was 'stupidity' in modern combat parlance and thats how probably most pros will look at this as. This off course in my personal opinion.

Unfortunately the days of an Alfred Cooke (read his superb account here - https://theprint.in/opinion/heroics...d-four-pakistani-sabre-jets-all-alone/234459/) and the worthy MM Alam, who in spite of the faux pax on the number of claim over Sargodha, is still the hottest Sabre dude in PAF's history, are unfortunalty over. Both Alfred Cooke or MM Alam, would have met the same fate as Abhi in today's combat scenario.

Yes Bravery is dead in Air Combat - welcome the cold, calculative and silent killer, who poses as the friendly next door fighter pilot in any air force of the world.

You came here only for troll, look at you post of only 49 and already get 2 negative rating @Jochen Peiper

 

[Ultima Thule]

I get negative rating sir, when I reply to comments which lack objectivity quotient, in similar language.

Thank You

You (india) lack logic/commonsense, whole world with us on FEB 27 and Balalkot strike @Jochen Peiper

 

[Myth_buster_1]

The SPICE debris, which was identified in the craters, was picked up from the north most target, where it was genuinely used. Moreover, the craters which the Pak Army showed are from a High explosive warhead and not a penetrator warhead. It been debunked in this article well -
Look for the following in this article by an ex vet from IAF -
1. Shows 3 clear holes in at least one target in Balakot
2. Shows the difference between penetrator and high explosive craters - the one shown outside the camp is from a high explosive and NOT penetrator shell as used by IAF - exposes the cover up
3. The DG ISPR, took the foreign observers after 43 days to show the camp, and that too the actual targeted building was NOT shown, nor were the journals allowed to speak with anyone. read the article above

On the miss - this is a good read https://theprint.in/defence/austral...inary-holes-in-iaf-strikes-on-balakot/213970/

BTW, there is another theory, crazy as it sounds, but basis an eyewitness who was injured in that outside explosion - he heard aircraft BEFORE the explosions. Vishnu Som and Sameer Joshi (both professionals) in India insinuate that the PAF hastily bombed to create impression of miss. It does sound stupid, but then a lot of things that happen under duress can be termed as stupidity.



Total 4 Spice bombs were used. 3 hit that target, 2 more on other targets as per article - https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/bal...mages-of-the-balakot-air-strikes-show-2006941



Because it was precision bombs of the penetrator version used. The other Crystal Maze was NOT fired, which would have shown those spectacular explosions - https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/exc...e-in-pakistans-balakot-by-mirage-2000-2028332



Don't know that. But probably to have enough bombs, maybe overlapping to ensure that maximum damage was done. BTW there is another report that the IAF has only the penetrator version of the Spice, purchased exclusively by bunker defended targets. So maybe there was a requirement to use more than one to get more effect. But not sure




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BLU-109_bomb

.
The BLU-109 has nearly 250 kg of warhead as compared to the 80 kg on the SPICE. Both are designed to penetrate and explode, thats which the BLU 109 warhead explodes 20 milliseconds after penetration. The difference is that it would take 3 SPICE bombs to explode at the same time to have effect of one BLU 109 - which did NOT happen - so the building is still standing



RAPHAEL is OEM



No video feed from Spice in Auto mode. The feed was to come from Crystal Maze bombs, which stupidly were not fired. That also explains the 12 Mirages required. As per Vishnu's article the aircraft with Crystal Maze came back without firing. Very stupid in my opinion, they should have fired anyway, at least you guys would have had a total proof of the strike



The craters were formed by GP munition because Pakistan did not realise that IAF had used ONLY penetrators, so when the false explosions were carried out, the Pak Army )or PAF) used GP munition - which gives away the cover up well

As I said, half the M2000 came back. Rest fired 5 Spice bombs. All hit the Balakot camp as given in the articles above.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/b...strike-shows-how-hard-precision-bombing-49397

I agree with the author in the above piece. It takes more than precise weapons to achieve a hit. Thats why the IAF aircraft had to enter Azad Kashmir, probably to get the correct geometry of attack. And thats why the PAF SOWs had range errors as widely reported on Twitter by Indian sources. They fired everything well off the range. It would be good if the PAF releases the attack videos. Can shut people like me and the IAF for good.

And lastly - you showed Su-30s in a photo and asked why they are not positioned at Srinagar. Its obvious, there is no reaction time for them, in the same way that you will not position any F 16s at a base which is 4 min away if IAF decides to strike. Its not rocket science

Thank You



Sir all I am saying is at least take a look at this photo. I believe the authenticity of same because it is there on open social media for all of us to asses. Don't discount something away, just because its coming from an India. Similarly I take that claim by PAF of a Su 30 very seriously, looking for any debris or shoot down video on same.

Please refer the twitter feed -

https://twitter.com/x/status/1123921210046320640

Indiots still imagining holes.... lol

Here is a video of IDAF testing Spice 2000 kits on concrete structures which resulted in COMPLETE destruction!

watch the entire video specially 7:10 mark where spice not only penetrates the concrete structure but also explodes in upward direction and if their was a light structure on top of it like in balakot it would have resulted in complete destruction!
Which part of these pathological delusional and liar Indiots not understand?

Bravery in modern combat is as good as dead!

Fighter pilots are system operators and fly their jets in a highly mechanical way. I fly an Airbus 320, its is flown following a set of procedures - caters to the dumbest of all pilots, one needs to just follow what is given the flight manual. Back to combat flying - BVR combat over the years is dictated with LR detection and weapons, which further takes away the element of 'bravery'. You fire a salvo of missiles and hopefully one of them will get the poor sod on the other side (if fired in NEZ) or a stupid pilot on other side does not respect the lethal zone of the missile. Technology is making the difference here, NOT bravery.

Fighter pilots need to be bold and calculative, yes require motivation and patience - but necessary don't have to be Brave. The game on offence and defence on both sides is to follow the right tactics - which will determine if you get a kill or be safe from your adversary. In some cases, one needs to have the presence of mind to withdraw against an enemy with longer range weapons and tactically come back in a different manner against him. Withdrawl is not defeat or cowardice, withdrawal is a necessary manoeuvre dictated by tactics. This is the new genre of air combat. We can possibly debunk the rest in our history books or when we give flowery commendation to a kill by a missile.

Abhi however displayed that spark of bravery. Which I feel is pig headed and suicidal, not called for under that circumstance. Obviously he was shot down, but look what happened - the PAF, in spite of having slip ups in Op Retort, managed to still achieve their aim - Why? Because one stupid IAF pilot crossed the LOC violating the tactics of BVR combat. So while it was 'bravery' displayed by Abhi in person, it was 'stupidity' in modern combat parlance and thats how probably most pros will look at this as. This off course in my personal opinion.

Unfortunately the days of an Alfred Cooke (read his superb account here - https://theprint.in/opinion/heroics...d-four-pakistani-sabre-jets-all-alone/234459/) and the worthy MM Alam, who in spite of the faux pax on the number of claim over Sargodha, is still the hottest Sabre dude in PAF's history, are unfortunalty over. Both Alfred Cooke or MM Alam, would have met the same fate as Abhi in today's combat scenario.

Yes Bravery is dead in Air Combat - welcome the cold, calculative and silent killer, who poses as the friendly next door fighter pilot in any air force of the world.

okay, so tell IAF to keep recruiting dumb pilots like abhinonedone.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Superb video.

But i'ts hitting a small tent, not a decent two storey building which the IAF claims was targeted. Thanks

International satellite experts said you hit nothing within few hours of Indian claims that you (india) killed 300 so called terrorists @Jochen Peiper

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Superb video.

But i'ts hitting a small tent, not a decent two storey building which the IAF claims was targeted. Thanks

PAY ATTENTION dumb pilot
Watch 7:10 mark again in slow motion! you can see big chunk of concrete blocks flying all over the place.
btw, balakot building structure is made of typical house bricks and even multiple stories can not observe such high explosion!

Here watch this video as well. At 1:15 mark... a 2,000 lb GB not only penetrates structure on top of bunker but after penetration it completely destroys it. a 1,000 lb GB would cause similar damage as well.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Superb video.

But i'ts hitting a small tent, not a decent two storey building which the IAF claims was targeted. Thanks

and don't troll man its clearly single story concrete bunker, are you blind or something @Jochen Peiper

PAY ATTENTION dumb pilot
Watch 7:10 mark again in slow motion! you can see big chunk of concrete blocks flying all over the place.

@Jochen Peiper is trolling bro because it is not his fault @Myth_buster_1

 

[Ultima Thule]

Apologies indeed, missed this one, saw the tented place first. Can only be explained that the fuse is set to explode on contact - with no delay.

The IAF says - their bombs were set to explode after penetrating two stories down and then exploding :

View attachment 562817 View attachment 562818

dude don't be ridiculous its clearly a penetrator clearly detonated few milliseconds after penetrating concrete bunker and From @Myth_buster_1 second clips there are many penetrator bombs take look after they they also deform exterior after exploding inside the structure, now tell me that after exploding there were no signs of deformation of exterios of Balakot structure is there IAF using some Vedic tech on Spice 2000 to avoid deformation of exterior of balakot structure @Jochen Peiper

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Apologies indeed, missed this one, saw the tented place first. Can only be explained that the fuse is set to explode on contact - with no delay.

The IAF says - their bombs were set to explode after penetrating two stories down and then exploding :

View attachment 562817 View attachment 562818

Watch this ROK AF dropping 2,000 lbs GB on a structure exactly described in Indian interpretation of the event.

Not only this 2,000 lb GB penetrates 2 levels but also 3 levels and completely destroys the structure above it! Had the structure below level 1 been underground it would have caused even more damage to the above structure because the energy would escape through the opening gap by GB penetration.
Even though this is a 2,000 lb a 1,000 lb would have cause same amount of damage.

Watch 1:10

 

[Shabi1]

Apologies indeed, missed this one, saw the tented place first. Can only be explained that the fuse is set to explode on contact - with no delay.

The IAF says - their bombs were set to explode after penetrating two stories down and then exploding :

View attachment 562817 View attachment 562818

Please don't embarres yourself further feel sorry for you guys. Give it a rest.

Sushma Swaraj already clarified no one killed.
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...strike-sushma-swaraj/articleshow/68941123.cms

InAF giving excuse of faulty software for missing targets. Can't find the original Indian source for it right now, maybe pulled down but do give it a read.
https://tribune.com.pk/story/1959307/1-iaf-tacitly-admits-balakot-airstrike-not-go-according-plan/

Some non Pakistani links on analysis of damage. Balakot strikes have been rebuffed by neutral sources.
https://graphics.reuters.com/INDIA-KASHMIR/010090XM162/index.html
https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/were-indias-airstrikes-in-pakistan-a-strategy-for-public-approval/

 

[Ultima Thule]

Please don't embarres yourself further feel sorry for you guys. Give it a rest.

Sushma Swaraj already clarified no one killed.
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...strike-sushma-swaraj/articleshow/68941123.cms

InAF giving excuse of faulty software for missing targets. Can't find the original Indian source for it right now, maybe pulled down but do give it a read.
https://tribune.com.pk/story/1959307/1-iaf-tacitly-admits-balakot-airstrike-not-go-according-plan/

Bro then @Jochen Peiper denying you on that sushma was not trying say no CIVILIAN doesn't means 300 terrorists in Blaakot @Shabi1

 

[Flight of falcon]

Bro then @Jochen Peiper denying you on that sushma was not trying say no CIVILIAN doesn't means 300 terrorists in Blaakot @Shabi1

I gotta give a credit to Jochen for being consistently clueless and stubbornly pushing Modi’s version of strike. Guys we can’t see the strike damage bcs it was cloudy and satellite couldn’t see anything while we erected buildings all over again. Once the cloud cover was gone we had a already erased any sign of damage.
Jochen will direct the next Bollywood movie on SoSO strike.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Sir, this is a 5,000 lbs GBU-28 and NOT a 2,000 lb bomb like SPICE 2000



No, the 2,000 lbs SPICE would have caused less damage than the GBU-28 - because Spice has less explosive charge at 80 kg, while the GBU - 28 has a explosive content of 286 kg. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GBU-28

So maybe 3.5 SPICE 2000 bombs would be needed to do a similar damage. And that too as I think, falling at the same time.

Thanks

whether its 5000 LBS GBU 28 or 2000 LBS Spice-2000 effets remains same, look at second cilp posted by @Myth_buster_1 there are lots of similar precision guided munitions only at vast and smaller scales, and pressure from detonations inside structure should deform balakot structure, so where are the deformation balakot exterior structure, your all justification are ridiculous @Jochen Peiper

No, the 2,000 lbs SPICE would have caused less damage than the GBU-28 - because Spice has less explosive charge at 80 kg,

wow what your source troll 2000 LBS precision guided munitions has only 80 kg of explosive charge what are you talking about @Jochen Peiper