PAC/JF-17 - DxB Air Show 2019

[Smoke]

Maybe he's trying to find out why the 'killswitch' never worked.

Hahahaha!

 

[The Eagle]

I just saw it now as someone shared it on FB.
PAC + LM (Engineering) F-16 = Possibly something to do with ovehauling of PAF fleet.

That was us on FB.
The interest by meeting as such can be anything and hopefully that wasn't about just routine and refreshing usual tech/spare support.

 

[khanasifm]

So L-15 went from 7 station to 9 with same 9 plus meter wingspan , not sure of jf will follow same route ?

 

[LKJ86]

So L-15 went from 7 station to 9 with same 9 plus meter wingspan , not sure of jf will follow same route ?

 

[Raider 21]

Yes, basic sims have a variable range of costs. A commercial sim costs anywhere around $40m+

Depends on what you get. But they are very valuable for training. Nope, nothing in the 40 million bucks, easily less than half of that.

 

[Philip the Arab]

View attachment 591113

PL-12?

 

[Trailer23]

I hope you had fun while wearing that shirt at the show.

If you really must know, this is what I wore yesterday (Final Day)...

• Why LM needs to pitch simulator to PAF since we have been flying the F-16s for decades but, until & unless there is something new in pipe line?
• I am sure in the end, those LM officials were taken to the Meeting Room by PAC official.
• Nonetheless, the top notch including PAC Chairman, are in Dubair Airshow 2019 unlike any other show.

Point 1 - I really don't know anything about the 'why?' - that's what he said to me for Ideas.
Point 2 - Can't speak on the matter.
Point 3 - Yeah, there were some Big Guns down there for sure & keep in mind some High Profile Meetings that took place next door with AVIC.

Exactly, the eye catching statement in the post was “pitching the F-21 simulator”

I believe it was @Bilal Khan (Quwa) who pointed out the confusion. Lockheed Martin is taking the F-21 Simulator at the Aero Show 2020. Obviously, they intend to pitch the F-21 & need to attract India with its features.

First of all sir how is your twin ? i hope they all are fine now.
2ndly i salute you for your efforts and give us an insight about the info which most of us cant get with out you. Again thank you so much

Yeah, the kids are doing great, thanks to all who asked.

But there is old say: When it rains, it pours!
Now the wife has got it from 'em & its f**King up my Final thoughts on the Air Show for you guys.

Anyways, moving on...

So we are looking at a possible US origin simulator covering all the flight aspects as compare to non-US simulator with less aspects.

About that...
Now there were 2 Types of Sims there are the Lockheed Martin Pavilion.

An Open one for pretty much anyone to sit & attempt to fly a F-16. Looked like a SPARCO Racing Seat, with the Stick, Throttle & a big LCD Flat Screen. Sorry, I didn't get a pic of it - 'cause well it sucked.

And then there was the one which was covered up & was by Invitation Only.

The pic below shows a US Naval Aviator going in for a run at it.

So guys does this also mean that we will be getting the L-15 Trainer ?

If that question is because of the pic I took of the L15, then 'No'. Taking a pic of it was just a tactic I used as taking an interest of whatever was around, without being too obvious.

I hope India stays away from F 21s

Relax, what they do is none of our concern. But if you ask me personally as someone who spent a good 15mins talking to someone attached to the F-21 Program, he didn't seem too...upbeat about the possibility if the Program will even survive.

Why would you buy sims now when after 10+ years you plan to retire the plane???

I'm sorry, but I didn't get memo. Why would we be retiring our F-16's before 2030? And that too our Block 52's & MLU'ed!!!

You may be confusing with the Mirage's.

We have two different sources at hand for the discussion as such. LM representative meeting PAC Officials and there is no more info than that. Secondly, simulator source is an ex-USAF that had some discussion with @Trailer23 separately. There is also a chance of misunderstanding during conversation.

Right, so the Lockheed Martin guys that visited the PAC Pavilion are a division of Lockheed Martin called 'DERCO'. They are most probably connected to the Maintenance & Logistics related work the DoD recently approved for the Pakistan Air Force.

The Gentleman whom I spoke to, is not just a former USAF F-16 Viper Driver, but was also the Test Pilot (himself) for the the Conformal Refueling Tank System (CARTS).

If he is the one, then this would have to be him (below)

He has since retired from Active Flying, but is obviously (still) employed by LM.

So now the difference between the F-21 & the new Block 70/72.

First off the Engines will remain the same - so lets put that aside.

The maneuverability will remain the same.

When Lockheed Martin uses the term 'DNA' from the F-35 (JSF), they are talking about 3 things only...:

1. The Coating will be exactly the same as the F-35 which apparently gives it more Stealth features.
[Not sure how that would help an F-16 shaped Aircraft would require to have a somewhat Stealth appearence.
2. The Avionics is actually the Real Deal. It is purely Touchscreen where you have 2 Screens that can be switched to 3 parts and gives the Pilot the ability to do pretty much everything an F-35 Pilot could.
3. He also mentioned something about 'Fiber Optic' which isn't on any of the F-16's, but our conversation was then interrupted by his colleague which resulted to an incomplete understanding.

Look guys, he entertained me that much - was a blessing.

The Lockheed Martin guys weren't so friendly on the first day. And the boys at Raytheon were d!cks.

Lockheed Martin will be IDEAS 2020, but that is exactly 01 Year from today. He said that he really wants to attend, but isn't sure if he'll be able to make the trip, but rest assure he said Lockheed Martin will be there.

Since we were having a friendly conversation..., I thought i'd go the extra mile & ask if he knew anything about any deals going on.

His words: "We want to. We've spoken to the Pakistan Air Force". He then said something down the lines that its upto PAF & the US - down those lines. Can't recall word to word on that. Obviously they want Business - but are subjected to approvals from Capitol Hill.

Somewhere in the earlier conversation I told him that Lockheed Martin should be extra kind towards Pakistan. We marketed their product so well back in Feb., that they've been receiving orders from everywhere.

His exact words: "...that was a thing of beauty."

Okay, so now the F-16 Block 70/72

 

[StormBreaker]

But there is old say: When it rains, it pours!
Now the wife has got it from 'em & its f**King up my Final thoughts on the Air Show for you

 

[Ultima Thule]

For one it is cheaper to operate and use less flight hours on 4th gen aircraft in PAF service.

UCAV is Cheaper option then even Mushak

For Pakistan cheaper is he best option, why not use Mushshak in the COIN role?

UCAV EVEN CHEAPER THAN MUSHSAK

 

[khanasifm]

If you really must know, this is what I wore yesterday (Final Day)...

View attachment 591110

Point 1 - I really don't know anything about the 'why?' - that's what he said to me for Ideas.
Point 2 - Can't speak on the matter.
Point 3 - Yeah, there were some Big Guns down there for sure & keep in mind some High Profile Meetings that took place next door with AVIC.

I believe it was @Bilal Khan (Quwa) who pointed out the confusion. Lockheed Martin is taking the F-21 Simulator at the Aero Show 2020. Obviously, they intend to pitch the F-21 & need to attract India with its features.

Yeah, the kids are doing great, thanks to all who asked.

But there is old say: When it rains, it pours!
Now the wife has got it from 'em & its f**King up my Final thoughts on the Air Show for you guys.

Anyways, moving on...

About that...
Now there were 2 Types of Sims there are the Lockheed Martin Pavilion.

An Open one for pretty much anyone to sit & attempt to fly a F-16. Looked like a SPARCO Racing Seat, with the Stick, Throttle & a big LCD Flat Screen. Sorry, I didn't get a pic of it - 'cause well it sucked.

And then there was the one which was covered up & was by Invitation Only.

The pic below shows a US Naval Aviator going in for a run at it.

View attachment 591111

If that question is because of the pic I took of the L15, then 'No'. Taking a pic of it was just a tactic I used as taking an interest of whatever was around, without being too obvious.

Relax, what they do is none of our concern. But if you ask me personally as someone who spent a good 15mins talking to someone attached to the F-21 Program, he didn't seem too...upbeat about the possibility if the Program will even survive.

I'm sorry, but I didn't get memo. Why would we be retiring our F-16's before 2030? And that too our Block 52's & MLU'ed!!!

You may be confusing with the Mirage's.

Right, so the Lockheed Martin guys that visited the PAC Pavilion are a division of Lockheed Martin called 'DERCO'. They are most probably connected to the Maintenance & Logistics related work the DoD recently approved for the Pakistan Air Force.

The Gentleman whom I spoke to, is not just a former USAF F-16 Viper Driver, but was also the Test Pilot (himself) for the the Conformal Refueling Tank System (CARTS).

If he is the one, then this would have to be him (below)

He has since retired from Active Flying, but is obviously (still) employed by LM.

So now the difference between the F-21 & the new Block 70/72.

First off the Engines will remain the same - so lets put that aside.

The maneuverability will remain the same.

When Lockheed Martin uses the term 'DNA' from the F-35 (JSF), they are talking about 3 things only...:

1. The Coating will be exactly the same as the F-35 which apparently gives it more Stealth features.
[Not sure how that would help an F-16 shaped Aircraft would require to have a somewhat Stealth appearence.
2. The Avionics is actually the Real Deal. It is purely Touchscreen where you have 2 Screens that can be switched to 3 parts and gives the Pilot the ability to do pretty much everything an F-35 Pilot could.
3. He also mentioned something about 'Fiber Optic' which isn't on any of the F-16's, but our conversation was then interrupted by his colleague which resulted to an incomplete understanding.

Look guys, he entertained me that much - was a blessing.

The Lockheed Martin guys weren't so friendly on the first day. And the boys at Raytheon were d!cks.

Lockheed Martin will be IDEAS 2020, but that is exactly 01 Year from today. He said that he really wants to attend, but isn't sure if he'll be able to make the trip, but rest assure he said Lockheed Martin will be there.

Since we were having a friendly conversation..., I thought i'd go the extra mile & ask if he knew anything about any deals going on.

His words: "We want to. We've spoken to the Pakistan Air Force". He then said something down the lines that its upto PAF & the US - down those lines. Can't recall word to word on that. Obviously they want Business - but are subjected to approvals from Capitol Hill.

Somewhere in the earlier conversation I told him that Lockheed Martin should be extra kind towards Pakistan. We marketed their product so well back in Feb., that they've been receiving orders from everywhere.

His exact words: "...that was a thing of beauty."

Okay, so now the F-16 Block 70/72

View attachment 591119

View attachment 591121

View attachment 591122

Wing span same as block 3 / dual seater 9.4 ish

 

[Thorough Pro]

PAF and LM relationship goes back many years, this is just a courtesy call as all PAK-US weapon deals happen at the government level and not by a sales pitch made by company reps at an exhibition stall.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

3. He also mentioned something about 'Fiber Optic' which isn't on any of the F-16's, but our conversation was then interrupted by his colleague which resulted to an incomplete understanding.

My observation to this statement is:
Fiber optic would be used in regards to cabling not just the avionics and mission computers but also fly by wire system, thus enabling quicker response times far superior to what F-16 would have.
In simpler words what LM is offering India is faster situational and mission adaptability with structural performance of F-16 similar to the SUFA Israel Air Force.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

I will not attach this development with any new deal for acquisition of F-16 and I will treat it as separate and deal for new/ additional simulator will benefit us.

@Bilal Khan 777 Sir jee ..... if I am not wrong PAF already using simulator for F-16 which is not of US origin .... ??

Yes, PAF already has a F16 sim.

So the story goes that after taking my own pics with the USAF F-16, I decided to head back inside the Exhibition Hall to the PAC Pavilion - as I was asked to stop by later for a bag of goodies & have whatever Questions that needed to be answered.

As I approached the Pavilion, I noticed something which led me to take my cellphone out & instantly start taking pics of the adjacent Pavilion - AVIC.

This is the pic I took. The L15 Trainer.

View attachment 591065

I then turned 180° & took a couple of pics of the Cables at PAC which I had already taken in the past.

(Focus on the person seated on the Left.)

View attachment 591069

Moving away (diagonally) across PAC I started taking a number of shots...and this is what I got. A Western Man & Woman at PAC.

View attachment 591068

Notice something on the table...take a closer look.

View attachment 591070

BOOM - How you like me now?!!​

View attachment 591071

Yeah, yeah...I know its not a Block 70/72, but its something.

And who are these fine people taking the time out to visit lil' ol' Pakistan Aeronautical Complex?

View attachment 591072

Badge: Lockheed Martin
Lanyard: DERCO (A Lockheed Martin Company)

Derco Aerospace, Inc.
8065 W Fairlane Ave, Milwaukee, WI 53223-3249
414-355-7770

https://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/lockheed-martin/en-us/products/derco-aerospace.html

Name: Kaan Tuncel
Title: Manager - Engineering Services

View attachment 591073

View attachment 591075

I spoke to a Lockheed Martin rep, a former USAF Viper Driver, who was also Lockheed Martin's F-16 Test Pilot and is now part of Training Division. He said that he will try his best to go for IDEAS 2020 & that LM are trying to pitch the PAF the Simulator.

He showed me some [Confidential] images of the F-21 Simulator which they're taking to India in 2-3 Months. I was also told a bit about the difference between the F-16 Block 70/72 & the F-21.

So yeah, i've heard quite a bit from the horses mouth himself. Some stuff is good & some not so much. And since I couldn't understand half the things he spoke off, i'll try my best to explain it a bit later.

By the way, I finally have a hard copy of the F-16 Block 70/72 Specs sheet which i'll post a bit later at nite.

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Windjammer @Hodor @mingle @Haris Ali2140
​

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Derco got acquired by LMCO. He seems to be lost.

 

[HRK]

Yes, PAF already has a F16 sim.

and the origin of that SIM ...??

As far as I remember we also made an attempt to indigenously made F-16 simulator during late 90s

 

[Trailer23]

Derco got acquired by LMCO. He seems to be lost.

I'm not sure if I understood your point.

I mentioned: DERCO (A Lockheed Martin Company) with the weblink, address, the name of the Rep & his designation.

He came over to meet PAF on behalf of LM & present them with that Diecast Model.

Obviously, we now have a confirmed contract for Maintainance for our F-16's which got confirmed during IK's first visit to the US.

So again, I didn't understand the "he seems lost".