PA decides in favor of Navistar MaxxPro MRAP

[BDforever]

No.

but Patria can

 

[proka89]

but Patria can

Not all of them. If you wish amphibious capabilities you need to reduce the weight, and that means, lesser ballistic protection... And they are more expensive than the versions without amphibious capabilities.

 

[Rain]

So again we're going to be stuck with American junk

What happened to the Lazar 2 ???

It is unfortunate that in many cases Americam junk is better then many frontline products. But more importantly PA needs such vehicles badly not only PA but civil law enforcement agencies too.

 

[XYON]

Pakistan Army's MRAP requirements are unique and both Lazar-2 and MaxxPro are simply stop-gap measures. A little while ago I heard that the Army was offered some Italian MRAP's (used in Afghanistan as well) provided Pakistan could pick them up from Italian Port. For this Pakistan has done some action but I am not sure if the Italian MRAP's have arrived yet or not.

Again, shame on HIT that it cannot properly and on its own develop such a vehicle. The Burraq was a poor copy of the Israeli CAT MRAP/ IFV. Considering the areas where Pakistan needs IED protection, these behemoths will not be able to turn around at any path on mountainous terrain and will have high chances of getting stuck, toppling over with a force of a strong IED or worse being rammed into with an explosives laden vehicle.

I still think that owing to lack of vision, planning and all important cash-in-hand, this will be another one of those pipe dreams!

 

[FunkyGen]

It is unfortunate that in many cases Americam junk is better then many frontline products. But more importantly PA needs such vehicles badly not only PA but civil law enforcement agencies too.

Yep! totally agree with you on that one, our local law enforcement(especially In Karachi and northern areas) badly needs a dedicated and quality made armored vehicle, Moafiz is fine too but Navistarr is in a league of it's own so better go with it IF the deal is feasible(cheap pricing and stuff).....

Pakistan Army's MRAP requirements are unique and both Lazar-2 and MaxxPro are simply stop-gap measures. A little while ago I heard that the Army was offered some Italian MRAP's (used in Afghanistan as well) provided Pakistan could pick them up from Italian Port. For this Pakistan has done some action but I am not sure if the Italian MRAP's have arrived yet or not.

Again, shame on HIT that it cannot properly and on its own develop such a vehicle. The Burraq was a poor copy of the Israeli CAT MRAP/ IFV. Considering the areas where Pakistan needs IED protection, these behemoths will not be able to turn around at any path on mountainous terrain and will have high chances of getting stuck, toppling over with a force of a strong IED or worse being rammed into with an explosives laden vehicle.

I still think that owing to lack of vision, planning and all important cash-in-hand, this will be another one of those pipe dreams!

I don't think HIT is bad or anything, the thing is that our forces are trying to get the best vehicle possible at the lowest cost possible and since LAZAR met these conditions it was procured, same is the case with Navistarr which, i think,is being cheaply offered . One should always remember that developing a vehicle (even if it's a copied shape) takes time,effort and money.......

 

[Chak Bamu]

All of the above requires money, which should have been spent to develop an indigenous vehicle to begin with.

Money would be spent no matter what we buy or build. Any piece of equipment requires maintenance regardless of origin. Point is that I do not see much of an issue with maintaining equipment which is based upon freely available commercial product.

Let me take engine filters for example. These require periodic replacement and are easy to make. Get me any filter, and I can have it replicated for less than a few dozen dollars in Lahore.

Lets take the example of piston engine or wheel bearings. These things are not like jet engine bearings. Fairly easy to get and replace.

Let us take disk brake pads. These entail no rocket science. Aircraft brakes are far more challenging. MaxxPro brake pads would be child's play in comparison.

Try to come up with one example that we can not manufacture or procure in Lahore or Karachi, and I shall concede the point.

 

[FunkyGen]

Money would be spent no matter what we buy or build. Any piece of equipment requires maintenance regardless of origin. Point is that I do not see much of an issue with maintaining equipment which is based upon freely available commercial product.

Let me take engine filters for example. These require periodic replacement and are easy to make. Get me any filter, and I can have it replicated for less than a few dozen dollars in Lahore.

Lets take the example of piston engine or wheel bearings. These things are not like jet engine bearings. Fairly easy to get and replace.

Let us take disk brake pads. These entail no rocket science. Aircraft brakes are far more challenging. MaxxPro brake pads would be child's play in comparison.

Try to come up with one example that we can not manufacture or procure in Lahore or Karachi, and I shall concede the point.

Hi,
I think you are over simplifying stuff, our economy would be burdened because we would have to set up separate units for the manufacturing of these parts, (considering they are not standard). While an indigenous solution wouldn't have caused these problems, remember that burraq was based on a chassis and components that could've been supported by our local industry. So, let's not only look at technical side of this situation.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Hi,
I think you are over simplifying stuff, our economy would be burdened because we would have to set up separate units for the manufacturing of these parts, (considering they are not standard). While an indigenous solution wouldn't have caused these problems, remember that burraq was based on a chassis and components that could've been supported by our local industry. So, let's not only look at technical side of this situation.

I would like to question your assumptions here.

How do you know that we would have to setup separate units for manufacturing of parts that need to be replaced (in periodic maintenance)? Why can't limited production be outsourced to local manufacturers if needed? Why are you assuming that we would have a problem in sourcing these parts? Considering that moving parts are mostly related to chassis and engine that are likely commercial products, why would we have a problem? What makes MaxxPro any different from any other piece of imported equipment? I hope you notice Range Rover vehicles in PA use. Do we have a problem maintaining those?

Even if we develop an 'indigenous' product, we still would be importing engines, disk brakes, Gear box, etc... from other countries, since our industry does not produce these independently at a competitive price and at a competitive quality level. If we obsess about focus on 'indigenization', we would be making mistakes similar to the ones made by India.

If it comes to it, we could reverse engineer this thing. It is not rocket science. It is just a pod stuck atop a chassis.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Sir ji those land rovers are assembled/produced in Pak by Sigma motors..


But than again ur right why would we bed manufacturing units etc for spares for a few hundred vehicles when we can just import them...

 

[Armstrong]

Sir ji those land rovers are assembled/produced in Pak by Sigma motors..


But than again ur right why would we bed manufacturing units etc for spares for a few hundred vehicles when we can just import them...

Yaraaa waisee hum itneii nakameiiin haiiin keh eiiik kaaam kiii MRAP bhiii nahin banaa sakteiii & we've thought about procuring them only now after so many years of our soldiers paying the price with their lives & limbs !

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Yaraaa waisee hum itneii nakameiiin haiiin keh eiiik kaaam kiii MRAP bhiii nahin banaa sakteiii & we've thought about procuring them only now after so many years of our soldiers paying the price with their lives & limbs !

Reminds me of stuff like Yasoob,PIFV.. Burraq MRAP.. Etcetera ... Corruption?

 

[FunkyGen]

I would like to question your assumptions here.

How do you know that we would have to setup separate units for manufacturing of parts that need to be replaced (in periodic maintenance)? Why can't limited production be outsourced to local manufacturers if needed? Why are you assuming that we would have a problem in sourcing these parts? Considering that moving parts are mostly related to chassis and engine that are likely commercial products, why would we have a problem? What makes MaxxPro any different from any other piece of imported equipment? I hope you notice Range Rover vehicles in PA use. Do we have a problem maintaining those?

Even if we develop an 'indigenous' product, we still would be importing engines, disk brakes, Gear box, etc... from other countries, since our industry does not produce these independently at a competitive price and at a competitive quality level. If we obsess about focus on 'indigenization', we would be making mistakes similar to the ones made by India.

If it comes to it, we could reverse engineer this thing. It is not rocket science. It is just a pod stuck atop a chassis.

Dude, my father owns a jeep cherokee and every time it breaks down he has to pay shitloads of money to import it's parts (shoqia). Anyways, what i am saying is that engines or other moving parts in these MRAPs are not standard (correct me if i'm wrong). And "commercial" doesn't mean cheap cause we'd still be importing stuff (expensive stuff).
You should also take into account the very reason burraq project was initiated, it was because of american machines being costly and difficult to maintain. I am not saying that our local industry can't support these machines, but still, do you think it is feasible and how so?
Well.... my suggestion is if these MRAPs are cheaply gained then they should be employed in our sensitive areas and when the mess is over, scrap them. All in all long term approach should be an indegenius

product that can be supported by our local industry in a better way or Lazar.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Reminds me of stuff like Yasoob,PIFV.. Burraq MRAP.. Etcetera ... Corruption?

I would not say corruption as such. Its just that government and its institution have no business being in business.

In the 80s, I often heard people tell each other that "Pakistan can not even produce a needle". That of course was an oblique reference to Pakistan's not having a steel mill. The only one Pakistan used to have was in Chittagong. This thinking got us our bloody steel mill which has been an unmitigated disaster for our economy in general, and engineering industry in particular. This thinking does not work @Armstrong. It is a recipe for disaster - proven fact.

 

[FunkyGen]

This thinking got us our bloody steel mill which has been an unmitigated disaster for our economy in general, and engineering industry in particular.

Privatization in process

Plus we need goddamn investors and hand them over these projects. We should hold ourselves accountable first before blaming our institutions, they are doing their minimum level best top keep the enemy at bay.

 

[Rank]

I was even 100% sure about this news even before 2012 ... because these machines are moving from Pakistan - Afghanistan from past 13 years... half of our military know in and out of these machines... many of these busted monster MARPS (Navistar Maxxpro) standing in our border from last many years...

These are EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE machine even G8 countries harldy capable to run these.. but i was very confident on that news... actually we don't have much options.. these are used... Lalazar is awesome but little costly.. US another TRAP to Pakistan military... handing over in massive amount.. again arrange few thousands parts... and provide funds for infrastructure to handle this machine.. after WE WILL STUCK again.. but what we can do.. out Fauji ledraan are doing same things which our Hakoomti leadraan r doing from last 6 years!

Ishaq dar eek adat apnay jesa mashrawa aur b day BML-N kay leader ko kay Pakistan Military ko bhi Privatize kardoo LOL