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P8-Is: Indian Navy’s eye in the sky

well in capabilities it's equal to P3-C PN have as the P3s given to PN are with latest upgrades and standards....
well i know what it is....
it's roles are just what role of P3s are...
anti ship,anti submarine etc...
one P3-C is also fitted with AWACS....
well i suppose agreement was around 8-12...
am not conferned now......
well they should have 4 induced atleast till now...

Not true. The P-8I/A is the latest MPA in the world and by far the most advanced. The P-3Cs the PN are getting are good but the P-8 is the next generation of MPA I'm afraid. If the P-3C was as good as the P-8 then wouldn't the USN spend $2-3 BN on upgrading the current P-3 fleet rather than spend $20-30 BN on 117 new P-8As?


Accept what Pakistan has and the limitations it faces but don't make nonsensical arguments like this and open up the thread to abuse and trolling.
 
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well there is a difference....these things are not just surveilliance planes...they are attack aircrafts with missiles and tropedos....and more advanced than the the P3C's .......


p.s. i would still like to know how many P3C 's you have now....

FYI, the P3C's are also capable of launching Harpoon missiles of which 30 were purchased(block-II) version.
Along with torpedoes.

The difference between the aircraft is in endurance(A2A refuelling) and electronic survivability.
In terms of ASW both aircraft are closely matched, but the P-8I brings with it additional Surveillance and SIGINT capabilities.

Pakistan had ordered 8 orions.. 4 were delivered of which two were lost, leaving two in the inventory. four more have been requested in lieu of the existing order of 8(4+4) in the meeting held on 4-5th Dec 2012.

Not true. The P-8I/A is the latest MPA in the world and by far the most advanced. The P-3Cs the PN are getting are good but the P-8 is the next generation of MPA I'm afraid. If the P-3C was as good as the P-8 then wouldn't the USN spend $2-3 BN on upgrading the current P-3 fleet rather than spend $20-30 BN on 117 new P-8As?


Accept what Pakistan has and the limitations it faces but don't make nonsensical arguments like this and open up the thread to abuse and trolling.

Because the P-3 cannot be grown any further beyond this stage.. and cannot support A2A refuelling.
Today's P-3C and P-8 are well matched in ASW capabilities. However, the P-3C cannot cope with tomorrows tech.. the P-8 can.
There is a good record of this argument that was presented to congress on why an upgrade was not simply a better option.
the US navy needed an aircraft with growth potential for the next century.. which the P-8 offered.

This does not mean that Pakistan with its limitations is always a sitting duck , as your countrymen would like to imply.
 
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Not true. The P-8I/A is the latest MPA in the world and by far the most advanced. The P-3Cs the PN are getting are good but the P-8 is the next generation of MPA I'm afraid. If the P-3C was as good as the P-8 then wouldn't the USN spend $2-3 BN on upgrading the current P-3 fleet rather than spend $20-30 BN on 117 new P-8As?


Accept what Pakistan has and the limitations it faces but don't make nonsensical arguments like this and open up the thread to abuse and trolling.

it would be more good if u prove me wrong with comparison rather than starting troll...
well i have not any of such intension....
every jet has limit...
now F 16 can't be upgraded to match with F-22...
P3-C was a 1970 design...
well i didnot mean that these hets are 100% alike. .
i just said they r compareable.
u can do anything with P3-C what can le done with P8-1....
yeppp P8 has long range....
for surveillance....
 
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The Boeing P8-I long-range maritime reconnaissance aircraft (LRMRA) which the Indian Navy got lat month is the most sophisticated weapon system in its inventory yet.

The aircraft, which is now being used for training by Indian naval personnel in coordination with the US Navy in the US, has the latest radars, electronic warfare systems, and weapons to kill hostile submarines, several of which lurk underwater in the Arabian Sea and Bay of Bengal around the Indian coast.

Built on the body of a civilian Boeing 737-800 jetliner with the wings of a 737-900, the P8-I is actually an attack aircraft, capable of discriminating between friendly and hostile vessels far away and then hit them with desired priority and lethality.

Its key capability though is to detect and delete hostile submarines, as also small boats in shallow waters which pose the most serious threat to Indian naval assets.

India has purchased eight P8-Is from the US Navy under the US government’s Foreign Military Sales (FMS) programme and the government has cleared four more for which there was an option. Another 12 P8-Is, or similar aircraft, should be acquired later.

The $2.1 billion-plus deal for aircraft covers onboard offensive and defensive systems and training. Weapons like the Boeing Harpoon Block II missiles, sonobuoys, Raytheon’s Mk 54 torpedoes, some freefall weapons cost additional.

The P8-I is a derivative of the US Navy’s P8-A multi-mission maritime aircraft (MMA) developed at the cost of billions of dollars. The first P8-A was delivered to it in March 2012, and so far, it has received five of the 117 ordered aircraft.

The Indian Navy is the first foreign customer and not much apart in time.

Understandably though, the P8-Is would not have the same range and features as the P8-As, but then the Indian requirements are met appropriately. In any case, there cannot be 100 per cent commonality as neither would the US share its latest technologies nor is India looking for interoperability with US assets.

Mission computers form the heart of the P8-I, integrating various sensors, radars and weapons on board, directing their power, reach and the required urgency in neutralizing hostile targets.

There are five to seven consoles for the operators, who can command the system to initiate and execute real-time action and attack.

Although the P8-I is not an AWACS (airborne warning and control systems) aircraft, it can operate as one in a limited way, and coordinate with the Indian Navy or Indian Air Force (IAF) combat jets to shower hell on an enemy.

The Indian P8-Is will be integrated with the Indian Navy and IAF assets, including fighters, AWACS and ground stations, thanks to net-centricity. Both the Navy and IAF fly Mig 29s for instance, and in the recent years, all the three services are approaching war-fighting with an emphasis on jointness.

The three services periodically hold joint exercises, and one such is due between the Indian Navy and IAF around March. Once the P8-I start arriving from mid-2013 onwards, there would be more exercises.

Meanwhile, the infrastructure to operate the P8-Is is being built at INS Rajali at Arakkonam Naval Air Station in Tamil Nadu, from where the aircraft can easily fly towards the Bay of Bengal or the Arabian Sea. All the 12 aircraft will be based there.

Notably, unlike the earlier aircraft used for maritime reconnaissance and attack role, the four-engined Il-38 and Tu 142 which the Indian Navy has, or the Orion P3C which the US Navy has been flying so far, the P8-I is a jet with jet speed. Its two CFM 56 engines have, however, been tweaked to allow it to fly slow, and low above water.

The acquisition of the P8-I has brought to the Indian Navy some of the most sophisticated radar and other systems, particularly Raytheon’s AN/APY-10 multi-mission surface search radar with a range of 200-400 km. This forward-looking Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) with 240 degree coverage is built on the technology of the famed AESA (Active Electronically Scanned Array) radar that the (IAF) wants on all its combat aircraft, beginning with the Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MRCA) being negotiated now.

To ensure 360 degree scanning however, the Indian Navy has got an aft radar from US Telephonics for rear coverage.

The US Navy aircraft do not need aft radars as there are several US surveillance assets, including aircraft and satellites, in the sky at any time. The P-8A however is primarily meant to function in alignment with the unmanned Broad Area Maritime Surveillance (BAMS) aircraft (designated MQ-4C Triton), which is still under development by Northrop Grumman.

The P8-I has some systems supplied by Indian companies to make its communications secure and compatible with Indian naval and air assets.

They include Data Link II (communication system) from Bharat Electronics, IFF (Identify Friend or Foe system) transponder from HAL (Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd), speech secrecy system from ECIL (Electronics Corporation of India Ltd) and mobile SATCOM (satellite communication system) from Avantel. All the P8-Is, as well as other navy aircraft now have net-centric capabilities and interoperability with IAF aircraft and ground stations.

India received the first P8-I when Cmde Alok Bhatnagar, naval attache at the Indian embassy in Washington and other Indian Navy officers received it on-site in Seattle in accordance with the contract awarded in 2009.

Indian naval pilots, systems operators and technicians, some of whom have been stationed there to monitor the progress of the project and some others, will now conduct test and training flights with US Navy assistance before this aircraft is brought home.

India will receive two more fully-equipped P-8Is within 2013, and all the eight by 2015.

A Boeing statement said that the manufacturing programme is progressing on schedule, and that Boeing is already assembling the fourth and fifth P-8Is.

It is believed that IN has open and clear requirement of about 30 P-8Is which they will acquire till 2022..
 
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it would be more good if u prove me wrong with comparison rather than starting troll...
well i have not any of such intension....
every jet has limit...
now F 16 can't be upgraded to match with F-22...
P3-C was a 1970 design...
well i didnot mean that these hets are 100% alike. .
i just said they r compareable.
u can do anything with P3-C what can le done with P8-1....
yeppp P8 has long range....
for surveillance....

Since this thread is turning out to be a P-8 vs P-3 affair, let me come in here.....

I had opened a thread sometime back, which addressed the issue perfectly as to why USN go for P-8s directly, here is the link:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/naval-...gh-altitude-high-tech-barf-bags-optional.html

It will answer every query of urs.
 
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well India shouldnot fully really in Navy reconciliation on Americans. .
as they can turn their backs any time...
well is there any other plane atleast 70% comparable to P-8 and origin is not Europe??
 
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Not true. The P-8I/A is the latest MPA in the world and by far the most advanced. The P-3Cs the PN are getting are good but the P-8 is the next generation of MPA I'm afraid. If the P-3C was as good as the P-8 then wouldn't the USN spend $2-3 BN on upgrading the current P-3 fleet rather than spend $20-30 BN on 117 new P-8As?


Accept what Pakistan has and the limitations it faces but don't make nonsensical arguments like this and open up the thread to abuse and trolling.

May want to ask someone form the US Navy who's worked with both, they'll tell you details about it.
Just to summarize: P8I is the newer model based on the same tech provided in P3C. Some of the key features that are 'different' include:

1) Newer Airframe - Long Endurance (vs. old P3C propeller driven airframe. Which has it's own benefits till date)
2) More modern avionics and expandability options - This is the KEY. P8I doesn't have a generation ahead capability over p3C. P3C is considered 'nearly perfect' for the MMA role. It is the expandability for future techs that will be available in P8I.
3) P3C is just worn out. The USN was even using some of them after cannibalizing some.
3) 6 belly fuel tanks. Ability to leap frog subs for hours, reducing their diesel electric absorption, resulting in forcing the sub to come up or go home for refuel (if not killed)
4) USN only focus: to be used with RQ-4 and RQ-4N and BAMS UAV systems. These are the advanced options which would've been very costly to add into the P3C's airframes (which have been over used and just plain worn out)

Hope the above helps. Both of these can be linked with Data systems, AWACS and other ASW ships, even helos. So again, it's not really a 'generation' above P3C but it does come with easy expansion options for future generation of systems that are being developed right now. The MAIN change is the brand new airframe, additional fuel tanks added capability and the ability to link up to USN's future unmanned strategy
 
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May want to ask someone form the US Navy who's worked with both, they'll tell you details about it.
Just to summarize: P8I is the newer model based on the same tech provided in P3C. Some of the key features that are 'different' include:

1) Newer Airframe - Long Endurance (vs. old P3C propeller driven airframe. Which has it's own benefits till date)
2) More modern avionics and expandability options - This is the KEY. P8I doesn't have a generation ahead capability over p3C. P3C is considered 'nearly perfect' for the MMA role. It is the expandability for future techs that will be available in P8I.
3) P3C is just worn out. The USN was even using some of them after cannibalizing some.
3) 6 belly fuel tanks. Ability to leap frog subs for hours, reducing their diesel electric absorption, resulting in forcing the sub to come up or go home for refuel (if not killed)
4) USN only focus: to be used with RQ-4 and RQ-4N and BAMS UAV systems. These are the advanced options which would've been very costly to add into the P3C's airframes (which have been over used and just plain worn out)

Hope the above helps. Both of these can be linked with Data systems, AWACS and other ASW ships, even helos. So again, it's not really a 'generation' above P3C but it does come with easy expansion options for future generation of systems that are being developed right now. The MAIN change is the brand new airframe, additional fuel tanks added capability and the ability to link up to USN's future unmanned strategy

"Dil ke behlane ko galib ka khayal aachha hai"

I mean whatever man whatever makes you sleep tight :toast_sign:
 
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"Dil ke behlane ko galib ka khayal aachha hai"

I mean whatever man whatever makes you sleep tight :toast_sign:

???? Whatever 'makes' me sleep tight? Bro, I just gave you facts......try to either counter them with facts or don't waste time by posting silly crap like this post I am responding to.....is that the best you guys do when there are no facts to counter with?
 
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P-3 is a damn good MMA plane. Anybody saying that P-8 is a generation ahead is either ignorant or, arrogant. P-8 does have the scope for future upgrades while there is no such scope for P-3... Infact some quarters of IN are very much in support of inducting P-3 in numbers for MRMR. But Sadly that wont happen and most probably we will be stuck with P-8I-lite ( whatever that means ?).

We are inducting P-8I for its range and performance to retire Tuploevs , not because it is a generation ahead of what our neighbours have.
 
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P-3 is a damn good MMA plane. Anybody saying that P-8 is a generation ahead is either ignorant or, arrogant. P-8 does have the scope for future upgrades while there is no such scope for P-3... Infact some quarters of IN are very much in support of inducting P-3 in numbers for MRMR. But Sadly that wont happen and most probably we will be stuck with P-8I-lite ( whatever that means ?).

We are inducting P-8I for its range and performance to retire Tuploevs , not because it is a generation ahead of what our neighbours have.

Thank you. It is SO refreshing to see poeple like yourself who actually like to debate with courtesy and sense vs. close minded patriotism. Thank you.
 
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P8 and P-3 together.

P_8_and_P_3_over_Pax_River.jpg
 
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