Our jawans have taught Pakistan a befitting lesson: Modi after decline in firing

[he-man]

The border region and its effects are better known to the civilians who suffered. Although I find it odd that the Indian media is constantly being asked to and is reporting casualties of the Indian Army as if that is not the job description....seemingly brewing up the usual storm of sentiment as they did in Kargil. While here a person getting shot an especially a soldier is business as usual. You get a thank you, a salute and see you back at duty.

Dude we have 0 control on the media here,,,trust me on this.
Media is king here

Exactly, while the Indians are kicking up a frenzy as if they have actually achieved something, the reality is Pakistani PM and army chief weren't even concerned about the situation on the LOC and were visiting Waziristan...... obviously the operation going on there is our priority, where as Indians are desperate to lift tail after debacle with the Chinese.

great analysis sire

 

[SQ8]

Not a sweeping statement, I was talking only about the section of the IB that was involved. It's something that has mentioned in numerous news articles & written about. These are civilian structures btw. It has no direct bearing militarily but once civilians were targeted, it was easier for the BSF to respond.

Where exactly? In addition it sounds rather funny that Pakistani border posts being targeted by Indian border posts would have the distance from the border as a factor?
I mean if I am firing from
X---------------->Z

it matter not if
X--Y------------>Z

to either side. Whosoever pointed this out needs to come with some seriously good reasons otherwise its possibly the most ridiculous argument ever made.

Exactly, while the Indians are kicking up a frenzy as if they have actually achieved something, the reality is Pakistani PM and army chief weren't even concerned about the situation on the LOC and were visiting Waziristan...... obviously the operation going on there is our priority, where as Indians are desperate to lift tail after debacle with the Chinese.

Well, deny as they might... India has a LOT of focus on Pakistan as compared to us towards them. Even our media does not care as much about it. Sure there are the PTV shows that go on and off about India but when it comes to the Indian media it seems all they have is Pakistan to talk about.

Dude we have 0 control on the media here,,,trust me on this.
Media is king here

The same goes here, but the focus of the media here is a lot more domestic. Perhaps just a lot more interesting things to talk about at home than India or other nations.

 

[he-man]

Where exactly? In addition it sounds rather funny that Pakistani border posts being targeted by Indian border posts would have the distance from the border as a factor?
I mean if I am firing from
X---------------->Z

it matter not if
X--Y------------>Z

to either side. Whosoever pointed this out needs to come with some seriously good reasons otherwise its possibly the most ridiculous argument ever made.



Well, deny as they might... India has a LOT of focus on Pakistan as compared to us towards them. Even our media does not care as much about it. Sure there are the PTV shows that go on and off about India but when it comes to the Indian media it seems all they have is Pakistan to talk about.



The same goes here, but the focus of the media here is a lot more domestic. Perhaps just a lot more interesting things to talk about at home than India or other nations.

Nope........u do have some restrictions and after geo tv fiasco channels are a bit laid back.
Not to say the media is under control but more like under guidance on certain matters.

Ours is jingoistic,,,stupid 10th pass /fail journalists hyping up everything

 

[Bang Galore]

Where exactly? In addition it sounds rather funny that Pakistani border posts being targeted by Indian border posts would have the distance from the border as a factor?
I mean if I am firing from
X---------------->Z

it matter not if
X--Y------------>Z

to either side. Whosoever pointed this out needs to come with some seriously good reasons otherwise its possibly the most ridiculous argument ever made..

Err... you don't seem to have read it through. These are civilian structures. In the line of fire. Not border posts of the Rangers.

 

[Didact]

The border region and its effects are better known to the civilians who suffered. Although I find it odd that the Indian media is constantly being asked to and is reporting casualties of the Indian Army as if that is not the job description....seemingly brewing up the usual storm of sentiment as they did in Kargil. While here a person getting shot an especially a soldier is business as usual. You get a thank you, a salute and see you back at duty.

I have so far refrained from making any comments on this issue, primarily out of ignorance of the actual sequence of events leading to this flare up. But nevertheless, this point of yours is something I've been actually observing for sometime now.

The Indian media is going pretty much the way of the American media, as far as the playing up (or reporting) of casualties of Indian forces, right from the borders with Pak to the Maoist infested hinterland. So this isn't exactly a Pakistan centric problem here.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing, helps the average joe understand the dangers faced by our guys in uniform. It also helps bring the plight of their families and their anguish to the rest of us (to the point of making us inured to such sights really). But this also has a drawback:

This massive media glare on casualties makes both the government and the brass wary of high casualty operations. Perhaps the correct word would be more risk averse. Then there is the effect of the repeated reporting creating pressure on the government machinery, resulting in increased commitment to rhetoric instead of careful policy moves.

This also creates the need for highly visible action. Action that must be demonstrated to the riled public. That rules out the possibility of other more subtle methods for ensuring retaliation, as in this case. The IA would have typically relied on special forces missions to settle the score, as they have done for long now, but the high visibility of the situation rules that out. Instead what we have are mini artillery exchanges that end up killing the locals. This has happened a few times in the recent past as well.

But these are basically my observations. I don't have any concrete proof to back up my theory.

 

[SQ8]

Err... you don't seem to have read it through. These are civilian structures. In the line of fire. Not border posts of the Rangers.

So if there are civilian structures closer to the Pakistani posts.. does that not make them more sheltered?
I dont think you understood the rather ridiculous premise of the idea(in the articles/etc which you refer).

 

[FaujHistorian]

......................


Hey guys.

whatever is the reason, Indians stopped first. then Pakistanis stopped.

So the credit goes to Indians for lowering the noice level.

 

[Hiptullha]

View attachment 123851

This is what Indians actually believe.
Apparently little baby India was being bullied by big bad superpower Pakistan for the last few years until a few weeks ago where they magically overpowered the military by spamming mortars and shells and killing villagers.

 

[he-man]

......................


Hey guys.

whatever is the reason, Indians stopped first. then Pakistanis stopped.

So the credit goes to Indians for lowering the noice level.

Chalo koi wi hove..........it stopped

 

[Imran Khan]

lolz at border you see that huge pakistani post can see inside india 2km indian post look tiny from there

 

[Bang Galore]

So if there are civilian structures closer to the Pakistani posts.. does that not make them more sheltered?
I dont think you understood the rather ridiculous premise of the idea(in the articles/etc which you refer).

I understood, you seem not to have. There are civilian structures on the Pakistani side that are close enough to be direct targets for the BSF while civilian structures on the Indian side are not as close to the IB and where they are, they are lesser in numbers.
.
Btw, what sort of logic is used to suggest that civilian structures close to Rangers posts would make them more sheltered rather than further in, away from firing range? They just present additional targets.

 

[SQ8]

The Indian media is going pretty much the way of the American media, as far as the playing up (or reporting) of casualties of Indian forces, right from the borders with Pak to the Maoist infested hinterland. So this isn't exactly a Pakistan centric problem here.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing, helps the average joe understand the dangers faced by our guys in uniform. It also helps bring the plight of their families and their anguish to the rest of us (to the point of making us inured to such sights really). But this also has a drawback:

This massive media glare on casualties makes both the government and the brass wary of high casualty operations. Perhaps the correct word would be more risk averse. Then there is the effect of the repeated reporting creating pressure on the government machinery, resulting in increased commitment to rhetoric instead of careful policy moves.

This also creates the need for highly visible action. Action that must be demonstrated to the riled public. That rules out the possibility of other more subtle methods for ensuring retaliation, as in this case. The IA would have typically relied on special forces missions to settle the score, as they have done for long now, but the high visibility of the situation rules that out. This has happened a few times in the recent past as well.

But these are basically my observations. I don't have any concrete proof to back up my theory.

Well, the IA could always deny access citing any reason. Again, the use of SF by both sides to essentially make a proper stab rather than the proverbial pin pricks is tradition almost; yet at this stage the Indian media has essentially left the IA with its hands tied and only polarized certain existing sentiments regarding Kashmir.

But one possible look at this could be from the angle of media ratings. blood and gore sells(as much as sex and drugs) and in this case the idea of dramatic music behind a fellow who's taken a bullet would ring to the heart of viewers.

And there can only be observations. There is little to back up the claims made by both sides on the reasons. One side is blaring the usual rhetoric of infiltrators while the other is denying anything other than defensive firing. If anything, it helps Subramanian Swamy and Zaid Hamid get lots of material to bellow out nothing more than their usual about.

 

[FaujHistorian]

lolz at border you see that huge pakistani post can see inside india 2km indian post look tiny from there

View attachment 123902

It depends on specific points yaar.

Where Indians are in weak position, they build tall watch towers.

We do the same.

 

[Rafael]

Lol and they have declared victory too. Pakistan and it's media weren't even paying attention. We were busy with north waziristan and India had started and won a war without us even noticing.

This Modi is a real loony taking Indians to a ride.

 

[SQ8]

I understood, you seem not to have. There are civilian structures on the Pakistani side that are close enough to be direct targets for the BSF while civilian structures on the Indian side are not as close to the IB and where they are, they are lesser in numbers
.
Btw, what sort of logic is used to suggest that civilian structures close to Rangers posts would make them more sheltered rather than further in, away from firing range? They just present additional targets.

You referred to Pakistani posts as being closer to the border, then referred to civilian structures. Essentially that was what I understood from the gist of your posts. Now you have said exactly what I implied. So how is it that the Pakistani MILITARY posts took greater damage as compared to the Indian posts?
That was my query in the first place.

Second, yes they present MORE targets which means that fire normally reserved for border posts may get mistakenly(or intentionally) directed to civilian structures.