Our Hero Is Raja Dahir Not Muhammad Bin Qasim, Haji Adeel- ANP

[courageneverdies]

After fall of Muslim rule in Spain Crusaders gave people of Spain two option either die or convert to Christianity, by sword.

All Indians would have been Muslim if Muslim rulers in India were like that, Islam by sword.

Its not the moto of Islam, but of Hindus who still consider Muslims that either they be turned to Hindus, or leave Hindustan. A moto of Shiv Sinha aka BJP

KIT Over

 

[Wasif A.K.]

dont just attack ANP let them say what they think. I live in karachi and there are people who support ANP. I think we should all respect each others opinion don't just call traitors who oppose your point of view though i don't agree with haji adeel sahib's opinion but i still think that talking against other parties and blaming will not help it will only raise more hatred in the hearts of people. Tolerate...

 

[courageneverdies]

dont just attack ANP let them say what they think. I live in karachi and there are people who support ANP. I think we should all respect each others opinion don't just call traitors who oppose your point of view though i don't agree with haji adeel sahib's opinion but i still think that talking against other parties and blaming will not help it will only raise more hatred in the hearts of people. Tolerate...

I think you should also welcome our opinions as well. What all of us have said are our opinions presented with decoration of facts.

There are things which are intolerable. This can be one of those. This Mr. Haji Adeel had also said bad words regarding Quaid-e-Azam if you people have remembered. Such must be given a shut up call lest they'll continue more and more.

KIT Over

 

[Raghu]

After fall of Muslim rule in Spain Crusaders gave people of Spain two option either die or convert to Christianity, by sword.

All Indians would have been Muslim if Muslim rulers in India were like that, Islam by sword.

All India was never part of Muslim rule.

The longer the Muslim rules in certain area ,more the number of Muslim we find in those areas ,e,g Pakistan and Bangladesh.

Similarly lesser the time Muslim rule in certain areas ,the lesser number Muslim found in those area e,g Odisa and Nepal.

Hindus ,even Sikh religions survived and kept alive under trying conditions because they played all tricks in the book .

Whenever needed and they could fought back hard e,g against Aurelio's .Aurenzeb destroyed several temples in mathura ,Varanasi(named it Mohamadabad if I'm not wrong ) and elsewhere,but then Hindus under Martha's fought back gain territories and rebuilt those broken temples .

Where they thought they could join hands with the liberal Muslim rulers they did so e,g Akbar's army was commanded by Hindu generals.

So never live in any false impression that Muslim leader did any voluntary concession to Hindus .Those who were pragmatic and they flourished ,other who tried to be harsh on Hindus ,paid the price.

 

[Raghu]

After fall of Muslim rule in Spain Crusaders gave people of Spain two option either die or convert to Christianity, by sword.

All Indians would have been Muslim if Muslim rulers in India were like that, Islam by sword.

I doubt any Spaniard would agree to Ur theory of forced conversion.

If that was the case then they would converted back into Islam on the very first chance they got,wouldn't they??

 

[ice_man]

I doubt any Spaniard would agree to Ur theory of forced conversion.

If that was the case then they would converted back into Islam on the very first chance they got,wouldn't they??

then your logic should apply to Mohammed Bin Qasim too! meaning that infact his rule was just & good! hence when he left no one converted back to hinduism! islam flourished in sindh & in all over india!

and if Mohammed Bin Qasim's rule was taken as just fair & with human rights then automatically the rule of Raja dhair becomes a tyranny

 

[All-Green]

I doubt any Spaniard would agree to Ur theory of forced conversion.

If that was the case then they would converted back into Islam on the very first chance they got,wouldn't they??

What chance did they get?
You are making a comment which is entirely out of line.

Ever heard of the Spanish Inquisition?
Ever heard of Moriscos?
Ever heard of what happened to the Jews and Muslims in post Islamic Spain?

The forced Baptism of Muslims to convert them to Christians and then persecution was the norm in the reconquered Spain.
All Muslims were made Christian by royal decree and anyone found to be practicing Islam was targeted.
The Spanish inquisition monitored and targeted the forcibly converted Jews and Muslims.

In the 1560s the Monarch issued a royal decree to ban all things Moorish, speaking Arabic or Berber was prohibited, wearing such dresses was prohibited, having Arabic or Berber names was prohibited...this was most likely planned to ensure that the Muslims rise up and try to resist, this is exactly what happened and the revolt against these unacceptable demands was brutally crushed and then the final decree came into place, Expulsion!
In 1609, King Phillip the third expelled all Moriscos (Moorish descent or Muslim ancestry) from the Iberian peninsula, literally hundreds of thousands of Spaniards with Moorish ancestry were forced to leave their homeland.
Jews were also expelled from Spain.

This is all very well documented in history so no need to refer to a Spaniard.
All you need to do is undertake some research without too much emphasis on belittling Muslims and Islam...if that is possible for you to do.

 

[Airboss]

may i ask who is Raja Dahir?

Who in the Heck Cares!!!!!

 

[Raghu]

then your logic should apply to Mohammed Bin Qasim too! meaning that infact his rule was just & good! hence when he left no one converted back to hinduism! islam flourished in sindh & in all over india!

and if Mohammed Bin Qasim's rule was taken as just fair & with human rights then automatically the rule of Raja dhair becomes a tyranny

If my logic is wrong then Gin ka Pakistan's logic of forced conversion can apply to Pakistan too.

But fact of the matter lie somewhere in between ,there were forced conversion as well as voluntary conversion due to the conductive atmosphere prevailed in those many centuries long Muslim rule.

There were are documentary proof that forced conversion did occur in large numbers .There is this whole chapter in the documented Sikh history where some Kashmir pundits when threatened to convert within six months or die ,had to seek the help of Guru Tehg Bhahadur who lost his own life when he refused to Convert to Islam himself.

 

[Hyde]

Does anybody know anything about Raja Dahr? besides he was defeated by Muhammad bin Qasim? how can he be Hero first of all

Look at Muhammad bin Qasim who left his legacy after his death and known in whole Muslim world and not just Muslims but also well known among Non-Muslim historians

Who should be called a Hero, The one who was defated? or the one who defeated him in his homeland

 

[Raghu]

What chance did they get?
You are making a comment which is entirely out of line.

Ever heard of the Spanish Inquisition?
Ever heard of Moriscos?
Ever heard of what happened to the Jews and Muslims in post Islamic Spain?

Thats the whole point Mr All-Green .

Even after worst kind of forced conversions ,within few generations those murky past of coertion fades away ,the neo convert behaves like the born again convert.They not only forget and reject their past religion, they erase the old and erect new legends to supports their wish live in comfort of denial where traces of old existence kept at bay from their new consciousness and most important factor we saw noone wish to revert back to old religion.

Anyone feeling a sense of deja vu??

 

[courageneverdies]

Does anybody know anything about Raja Dahr? besides he was defeated by Muhammad bin Qasim? how can he be Hero first of all

Look at Muhammad bin Qasim who left his legacy after his death and known in whole Muslim world and not just Muslims but also well known among Non-Muslim historians

His life was indeed full of heroism, chivalry and was a fine example of true Muslim general and ruler.

Ik Musalmaano ki beti par hoa tha jab sitam,
Khul gay thay Ibn-e-Qasim k Shuja'at k Alam,
Betyan barbaad hain Bangaal main Kashmir main,
Josh kyun Ata nai Islam ki shamsheer main.

Even his death is an example of bravery despite of knowing that after the change of Caliph, the new one is against him and his uncle, when he was called, he didnt try to announce independence from the Caliphate but decided to go back because he was sure that what he has done is enough to give life to him and to his name for a hundred of thousands of years. Same happened to Mussa bin Nusair, who was also killed.

But he smoothed a way for Islam to spread in Sindh and than to all Sub-Continent. Sindh is rightly called Bab-ul-Islam.

Who should be called a Hero, The one who was defated? or the one who defeated him in his homeland

I go with the one who defeted him in his homeland...

KIT Over

 

[MilesTogo]

Milatry might/win does not equate to justice/goodness.

His life was indeed full of heroism, chivalry and was a fine example of true Muslim general and ruler.

Ik Musalmaano ki beti par hoa tha jab sitam,
Khul gay thay Ibn-e-Qasim k Shuja'at k Alam,
Betyan barbaad hain Bangaal main Kashmir main,
Josh kyun Ata nai Islam ki shamsheer main.

Even his death is an example of bravery despite of knowing that after the change of Caliph, the new one is against him and his uncle, when he was called, he didnt try to announce independence from the Caliphate but decided to go back because he was sure that what he has done is enough to give life to him and to his name for a hundred of thousands of years. Same happened to Mussa bin Nusair, who was also killed.

But he smoothed a way for Islam to spread in Sindh and than to all Sub-Continent. Sindh is rightly called Bab-ul-Islam.



I go with the one who defeted him in his homeland...

KIT Over

 

[All-Green]

Thats the whole point Mr All-Green .

Even after worst kind of forced conversions ,within few generations those murky past of coertion fades away ,the neo convert behaves like the born again convert.They not only forget and reject their past religion, they erase the old and erect new legends to supports their wish live in comfort of denial where traces of old existence kept at bay from their new consciousness and most important factor we saw noone wish to revert back to old religion.

Anyone feeling a sense of deja vu??

I would disagree here, the Moriscos were expelled because even after a century most were Christian in name only since they were forcibly declared Christians, the reason they could not practice Islam openly was because the penalty for such an act was death and persecution.
So when you implied that if they were converted why they did not revert back, you are not taking any of the prevalent conditions into account and giving a very simplistic statement.

a) The conversion was not even an option, it was a declaration that the Muslim is now Christian.
b) Penalty for openly reverting back to Islam was most horrible torture and execution.

The spread of Islam in Subcontinent was not due to any such decree whereby the Hindus were declared Muslim one fine day and anyone going to a temple was sent to the Gallows!
That is most certainly not the case and history has not recorded any similar event as to what occurred in Spain.

Muhammad bin Qasim achieved a military objective, however he was not sent to forcibly convert Hindus to Islam.

Since there was no caste system in Islam and all Muslims enjoyed same rights, it could have been one additional factor for many Hindus of lower castes who felt the brunt of upper castes to convert to Islam and get rid of oppression.

Islam was the religion of the super power of the time and was therefore closely associated with a culture which reigned supreme in the world and very appealing from social perspective; more so to people who suffered from the unjust social segregation due to the caste system.

The mass conversion to Islam in the subcontinent took place when the pious and very humble Sufis preached to the local population and earned the respect of the locals due to the high morals and values they stood by.
The poetry of many of these Sufis is recited even by Non Muslims to this day, it was certainly not an imposed culture, it solidified its place in this region through the efforts of men of peace whose humble persona appealed to the masses.

The social system which was the hallmark of Islam in those days stood on two key principles which have always and will always be the foundation of any great society...
a) Equality
b) Justice

The fact that Islamic world has deteriorated does not mean that it was great once only through chance and military might...there were many enviable qualities in the social system implemented in the past Islamic empire.
There were many logical reasons for people to peacefully convert to Islam.

Deja Vu?
You do certainly do need that cup o coffee, there is no similarity between what happened in Spain and what happened in the Indian subcontinent.

 

[courageneverdies]

Milatry might/win does not equate to justice/goodness.

Whats justice? Whats goodness?

For doing justice, force is required, might is required. If you don't counter culprits, decoits, looters, pirates like Dahir with iron fists, their evil remains spread and they become the devils, blind in misusing powers.

Law = Might = Justice...

Remember that.

KIT Over