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Osmania University beef festival sparks violence

it is all about respecting the sentiments of others. My freedoms and rights should not infringe upon that of others.

That is the fundamental tenet of freedom. How does my eating of beef, my slaughtering of cows affects the freedom of other people?

By that fundamental tenet of freedom you are duty bound to fight for all Indians to allow the eating of beef or slaughtering of cows.
 
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That is the fundamental tenet of freedom. How does my eating of beef, my slaughtering of cows affects the freedom of other people?

By that fundamental tenet of freedom you are duty bound to fight for all Indians to allow the eating of beef or slaughtering of cows.

It affects the religious sentiments.
 
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The multi cultural and the multi religious Indian society is quite different from the multi cultural/religious societies that we see in western country. Which is why we shouldn't try and emulate the experiments in multiculturalism of the western democracies in the Indian context.

These are excuses that a majority can use to impose tyranny over a minority.

Imagine if the whites had the same argument for their separation from the blacks? Whites didn't want to drink from the same water tap as the blacks it should have been. "We don't feel nice about freedom to blacks".
 
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It affects the religious sentiments.

Religion is a belief, a belief is in the minds of the people. It can be anything. It's nothing tangible.

You can have a belief in mickey mouse to be God and if I mock it that would hurt your sentiments.

These are the same theocratic arguments we hear in Pakistan in favor of subjugation of Ahmedis. Same.
 
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What are religious sentiments. ?

How is it affected on religion?

That is why true secularism is important. Religion can justify anything. Imagine a belief where if you are touched my the methane in farts of a minority you would go to hell. If tomorrow a majority believes in that, where will it all end?
 
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These are excuses that a majority can use to impose tyranny over a minority.

Imagine if the whites had the same argument for their separation from the blacks? Whites didn't want to drink from the same water tap as the blacks it should have been. "We don't feel nice about freedom to blacks".

Nonsense, its not like just the religious sentiments of Hindus are catered to or anything. If tomorrow someone decides to start slaughtering pigs infront of a mosque Indian government will put an end to that too. Da Vinci code was banned in many states to respect the religious sensitivities of Christians and so on. There are many more examples like that.

Religion is a belief, a belief is in the minds of the people. It can be anything. It's nothing tangible.

You can have a belief in mickey mouse to be God and if I mock it that would hurt your sentiments.

These are the same theocratic arguments we hear in Pakistan in favor of subjugation of Ahmedis. Same.

My argument is that why just Hindus are expected to shed their religious sensitivities and not others? Just because Hindus are the majority?
 
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Nonsense, its not like just the religious sentiments of Hindus are catered to or anything. If tomorrow someone decides to start slaughtering pigs infront of a mosque Indian government will put an end to that too. Da Vinci code was banned in many states to respect the religious sensitivities of Christians and so one. There are many more examples like that.

It was a stupid thing to do. Da Vinci code is a good example. It pisses off Christians but it is exactly to what Muslims believe. What if Muslims of India would have objected that hey why are you banning a movie about our beliefs?

Who would you listen to? You can't cater for religion - it has to be secularism. Religion is irrelevant to governance.

My argument is that why just Hindus are expected to shed their religious sensitivities and not others? Just because Hindus are the majority?

No one is. Religion just cannot come in the way of governance. It is irrelevant. If it hurts someone so be it, if it pleases someone so be it.
 
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I can only smile at the futility of frustrated casteists harking back to their wonder years. Those years are gone for ever, never ever to return. It is remarkable how long the effects of your rice shortage and resultant inflation have lasted, but naturally, to you, this must remain a transient phenomenon. Since 98% of the Tamils think differently, it may be a long nightmare for you and others in the agraharam.

Your use of the catch phrase pseudo secular gives away your affiliation to the faction of religious bigots, while it serves you poorly in describing me: I have already explained in my reply to Roybot why we need to guard against the Congress, so your usual smear tactics of calling people opposed to your gangsters Congress supporters is quite inadequate. Presumably the reference to the media and its blatant lies is a reference to that excellent Iyengar Brahmin paper, The Hindu; why am I not surprised at your hysterical attitude towards it? It must hurt that the newspaper enjoys such credibility, when it has written so sharply against the exploitation of the Dalit. I do not trust other papers very much, but I do trust The Hindu. It is more honest, less repulsively retarded than the Organiser. I would also be delighted if you descend from the clouds and explain what part of my post has been taken from Wikipedia, a source that I have warned against again and again, and if you could also explain what the portentously named 'real facts' are, that I don't know. Do let us all enjoy more of your overflowing scholarship, rather than confine yourself to incoherent abuse.

What is your reference to cultural imperialism about, by the way? Did you just like the ring to those words, or did you have anything more tangible in mind? Your cryptic reference raises more questions than it answers.

You also need to explain what lies behind your other references to the West's lap, and its objectives in Hind (the country is not q bicycle, by the way, and it is better called India or Bharat, unless you are planning to rename it when you come to power). Talking of which, it is possible that I do not know about money power, and who has it, and who controls it, whose agenda is what, and why. The question is, do you know? And if so, do you have the courage to put it on record, or do you realize what a gale of laughter will result?

Finally, I do listen to the news, but it is usually leavened by the information that I have from my own friends and acquaintances; that is for current affairs, while I rely on formally recognized scholastic sources for my knowledge in depth. You state that knowledge without wisdom is futile; in response, you may like to consider that ideas without knowledge or wisdom are just prejudices.

dude lot of things.

TN is not so simple as you might think.

In fact by divorcing the 2% of us,it is TN which has lost out and not us.They are slaves to many fallacies of the leaders they chose and how things have gone bad,

I can go on and on about the fallacies,

1.Mullai Periyar loss of face-1979 agreement to Kerala for lowering the water level

2. Loss of water bodies/agricultural land/river bed sand smuggling

3. Unlawful construction and no proper law and order

4. Heavy law and order issue including the assassination of a PM and lethal violence in the streets

5. Not to forget heavy corruption

6.Biggest loss is the amount of investment and development lost out to Bangalore/Hyderabad after Chennai lost out on the great advantage it had pre liberalization

7. Heavy alcohol abuse by youth and Tasmac shops affecting and posing a health problem in a state which had successful prohibition once


I can go on and on and on......

TN had so many advantages that it gained from the heavy British presence and the culture of knowledge and learning that the elite had developed from before but this fraud revolution screwed it big time and ended up now as an also ran behind Karnataka and AP and there also has been a heavy brain drain of Civil service officers to outside the state.

Starting from all that right until the current power crisis,the frauds have failed completely that the sole proprietors of linguistic emotions in a charged up state end up paying 1000 bucks for a vote.

how the mighty have fallen?

Whereas all of us who got prosecuted in the 1960s are all well good and much more prosperous and better off than we would have been by being teachers and officers in the TN govt.

On the other hand,those village kids now go to their schools with no learned teachers and end up paying money for institution to the same teacher later in the evening.

Above all those 98% are those who display crazy linguistic feel and are dying to develop,learn english and say,i dont speak tamil.

whereas the 2% still speak tamizh and nothing else.
 
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Fair point, but I still don't understand how does making beef readily available is going to help?

I answered your question regarding 'sensitisation', not regarding beef being made readily available.

It should be obvious to you that to suppress the dietary habits of a sizeable section of the population on the grounds of the religious sensitivities of another is insensitive, and tends to assume that the interests of one should be allowed to over-ride the interests of the other. This is what the Dalit students were protesting, their being denied the right to eat what they normally eat. Continuing to deny them this right will further demonstrate the insensitivity of the dominant section to the needs, wishes, expectations and rights of the Dalit, and push them steadily in the direction of opposition, from verbal and articulated opposition as it is today, to active and armed opposition today.

We have managed to alienate one identity group after another very successfully, in the 65 years that we have been free, and the chances of alienating this one are very high.

Is eating beef necessary to be a True Muslim or a True Christian? Its not. When Hindus can be mindful of sensitivities of other religious groups in India, is it too much to expect the same back from them?

Secularism demands that neither set of sensitivities be public policy. That is, those who do not wish to eat beef, need not; those who wish to do it, may do it. The state is expected to be neutral, not to pass laws and direct the efforts of its resources at supporting one side or the other.

Do you see Muslims or others demanding for beef? No they don't, they can still get it if they want and they know where to get it from. Is there still a need to rub it in the face of people who are against it, by making it publicly available?

How can you say that in the face of laws banning cow slaughter? How can they still get it if they want, by breaking the law? Why should they be obliged to do so?

Would you also support including pork in the hostel menu?

Absolutely! Pork is also very much part of the Dalit diet.

The Indian society is not ready yet for such openness, if it was you wouldn't be seeing these protests and violence. There is no point artificially imposing these ideas on the society when the current system is working just fine. You allow cow slaughter and next thing you know there will be d***heads slaughtering cows in front of temples and what not just to incite the other group and stir the pot. They day our society can get rid of such elements then we can go ahead with such plans, but not before that.

If you take the trouble to go back and examine the history books, this was precisely and exactly the same argument advanced by precisely and exactly the same elements of society - conservative Hindus - against suttee. But suttee was banned, as a crime, and it stopped.

Does this stance make me a right wing fanatic?

Not necessarily. There are many more elements in the mix. But this is one, certainly; neither necessary, nor sufficient, but contributory.

I see myself as a "secular Hindu" and not a secular "non religious person".

That implies, simply, that while in matters of public policy, you are secular, in matters of private religious practice, you are Hindu. That is fine, as long as one does not bring one's private religious beliefs into the public sphere.

I think majority of Indians are like that.

Unfortunately, probably not. They do not leave their religious sensitivity at home, but bring these into the picture when deciding public policy. As has happened in the case of the ban on cow slaughter.

Mutual respect for each others religion is the key, being a Secular Hindu, Secular Muslim and Secular Christian is the key, you do your own religious thing and be mindful that you are not offending other groups.

The points to address here are "mutual respect", and "not offending".

How is it mutual respect to ban cow slaughter, implicitly banning consumption of beef? The right of a Muslim - or a Christian, or a Buddhist - to eat what is normally part of his diet is banned; it is banned because of the hostility of a section of the Hindu population. So where is the mutuality in this? The Muslims and the Christians have been put under the ban; where has the Hindu paid respect to those of the other two religions?

Thats my idea of a Secular India and thats what Indian society needs to perfect.

You are free to preach this message. However, converting these views into law would constitute anti-secular action. The cow-slaughter laws are hostile to secularism.

Becoming a non religious society won't work in our case, specially when its just the Hindus who are expected to become non religious with such "desensitization".

It is precisely the seeking of licenses and exemptions from each other that has led to a culture of mutual blackmail. You ban cow-slaughter for me, I'll let you ban pig-slaughter; you ban Salman Rushdie and Taslima Nasreen, I'll let you ban James Laine. Where will your doctrine of multi-culturalism carry you?
 
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It was a stupid thing to do. Da Vinci code is a good example. It pisses off Christians but it is exactly to what Muslims believe. What if Muslims of India would have objected that hey why are you banning a movie about our beliefs?

Who would you listen to? You can't cater for religion - it has to be secularism. Religion is irrelevant to governance.

No one is. Religion just cannot come in the way of governance. It is irrelevant. If it hurts someone so be it, if it pleases someone so be it.

Yes easier said than done. Either you become a communist country and ban every thing religious or you look after religious sensitivities of different religious groups till the society matures and educated enough to deal with these situation amicably.
 
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Beef is pretty much forbidden in India.It is called sasta meat and people eat it because it is cheap.

Incorrect; this perhaps applies to some specific state.


what does beef has that mutton doesn't have and when it is much easier to keep goats than beef?

What does gold have that silver doesn't have? Is the state going to legislate on matters of economic choice?
 
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That is why true secularism is important. Religion can justify anything. Imagine a belief where if you are touched my the methane in farts of a minority you would go to hell. If tomorrow a majority believes in that, where will it all end?

I think this taboo of Non vegetarianism and Cow issues are a recent phenomenon.

Lots of Ayurvedic texts ( I have posted in the same thread) talks about meat , its qualities , referances etc.

Being in a state which is renowned for Ayurveda, i had met many vaidyas ( ayurvedic practitioners) and asked them about is it forbidden strictly in Ayurvedic recipes.

One of the guy has told me that a few rasayanas ( an ayurvedic tonic like stuff which is like thick gravvy) is made from meat eg Ajamamsa rasayana ( from goat ) and even there is karimkurangu rasayana (made from black monkey) and many more . When i asked him particularly about beef he has replied beef/buffalo is refered in texts as cure for reproductory issues, part of increasing count , to be precise.

So if its in ancient texts , it gotta be good. Thee moral police has no business in other's food habits or getting sentimental .
 
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Incorrect; this perhaps applies to some specific state.




What does gold have that silver doesn't have? Is the state going to legislate on matters of economic choice?

No,the opposite,mostly it is sasta meat and few places have it good.

Gold-Silver vs Beef-Mutton,again not a relevant debate or a relevant metaphor.

as usual verbosity.
 
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