Osama bin Laden’s death: Updates & Discussions

[AAtish]

Absolutely sir, I do. If they claim something, then they have to prove it. All I meant was, there are enough reasons to believe it rather than not believing. I hope I made myself clear.

Regards.

Reasons, my dear, a personal priority.. i can find MY reasons to accept something and YOU can find your reasons to reject it.. that is why there is LEGAL PROSECUTION SYSTEM.. where PROOF and EVIDENCE prevail..

Hope i answered..

 

[Ahmad]

Please read the text i am going to make bigger.. cuz i think otherwise you just simply read



Now, one needs to be a retard to believe ^^ Such authenticity of news.. nothing which can be confirmed.. isn't it?.. they are just playing the "mind games".. I have changed the font of few words.. can you please confirm that "you accept them as authentic source"??

Let me put all of these in a different way, if whatever is said to be lie, why haven't AQ come out and disputed it yet?

 

[AAtish]

Let me put all of these in a different way, if whatever is said to be lie, why haven't AQ come out and disputed it yet?

You are smarter then this, aren't u?

 

[joey'slove]

Reasons, my dear, a personal priority.. i can find MY reasons to accept something and YOU can find your reasons to reject it.. that is why there is LEGAL PROSECUTION SYSTEM.. where PROOF and EVIDENCE prevail..

Hope i answered..

Perfect. Regards.

 

[PlanetWarrior]

Reasons, my dear, a personal priority.. i can find MY reasons to accept something and YOU can find your reasons to reject it.. that is why there is LEGAL PROSECUTION SYSTEM.. where PROOF and EVIDENCE prevail..

Hope i answered..

I hate having to admit this but much needs to be answered for the quick disposal of OBL's body by the US troops. Surely they would have forseen a denial by many groups if not the Pakistani establishment at that time that OBL was killed in Pakistan. Counter to all of that offcourse is the fact that the spokespeople for Al Quaeeda and OBL's family confirmed that he was killed in that fort. Also counter to that is the fact that ISI and the Pakistani military knew that for as long as OBL remained a fugitive who issued a few speeches annually threatening the USA and the west, then the USA would pour money to them to help in finding the fugitive. Why kill the golden goose? Now if you add all up, you would have to apply the old adage of res ipsa loquitar (the facts speak for themselves). In this case you have two completely conflicting facts and then you have the logic behind it all. Kind of difficult to reason for the hurried disposal of the body but then again, the facts do speak for themselves

 

[AAtish]

Perfect. Regards.

Welcome to the Club.

 

[AAtish]

I hate having to admit this but much needs to be answered for the quick disposal of OBL's body by the US troops. Surely they would have forseen a denial by many groups if not the Pakistani establishment at that time that OBL was killed in Pakistan. Counter to all of that offcourse is the fact that the spokespeople for Al Quaeeda and OBL's family confirmed that he was killed in that fort. Also counter to that is the fact that ISI and the Pakistani military knew that for as long as OBL remained a fugitive who issued a few speeches annually threatening the USA and the west, then the USA would pour money to them to help in finding the fugitive. Why kill the golden goose? Now if you add all up, you would have to apply the old adage of res ipsa loquitar (the facts speak for themselves). In this case you have two completely conflicting facts and then you have the logic behind it all. Kind of difficult to reason for the hurried disposal of the body but then again, the facts do speak for themselves

One has to also wonder if the fast disposal of his body was "specifically" to keep all this controversial.. What if capturing him alive could have voided WoT as a whole? just wondering..

Killing him cold-blooded, made him:
- Shaheed: Allowing AQ to recruit more members, hence, more deaths, more killings, longer wars
- Controversial: for some he is going to be Hero, for others he is going to be Villain, the hatred between two sides will keep on rising.

Was that what the planners wanted? compared to these scenarios, having a couple of tik tuk here and there doesn't matter, now does it?

I think OBL should have been prosecuted and killed just like Saddam, removing any possibility of him being followed. Not doing this has raised few valid questions:

- Was he killed to hide the reality from the world?
- Was he really killed in Abbottabad? or did he died long time ago and was not declared?
- Does US wants to start a war with Pakistan? a Nuclear Nation, to start WW3, hence selling more arms, to collect global gold?

Too many possibilities, but hay.. we Pakistanis don't care about anything else right now.. All we want to know is:

Was OBL in that MANSION in Abbottabad, and WAS he KILLED there ON 2nd May 2011??

 

[PlanetWarrior]

Too many possibilities, but hay.. we Pakistanis don't care about anything else right now.. All we want to know is:

Was OBL in that MANSION in Abbottabad, and WAS he KILLED there ON 2nd May 2011??

Sadly, only your establishment can answer that question bro. It's a pity that they are becoming so contradictory in their statements. It just makes the question more vexing.

 

[AAtish]

Sadly, only your establishment can answer that question bro. It's a pity that they are becoming so contradictory in their statements. It just makes the question more vexing.

I second that, but forget about Pakistan's Govt. or establishment.. sackless faggots..

I am also astonished with ignorance of International Community.. It seems that "transparency" just flew out of Global politics suddenly..

 

[Ahmad]

You are smarter then this, aren't u?

well brother, lets assume i am not that smart, give me the details. And by the way, trust me since the news of his death on may the 2nd, apart from couple of articles, i havent researched or read anything else about this issue, so i might have the least information about Bin La-Deen's death on this board.

 

[AAtish]

well brother, lets assume i am not that smart, give me the details. And by the way, trust me since the news of his death on may the 2nd, apart from couple of articles, i havent researched or read anything else about this issue, so i might have the least information about Bin La-Deen's death on this board.

Let me tell you one thing brother, i am not anything special, i just try to assess the situation by weighing different possibilities logically.

Now before going further, we need to remember that AQ has NO loyalty towards Pakistan. They are not Pakistanis (on record). As far as your question is concerned, let’s assess the options AQ had after Obama’s claim that OBL has been killed in Abbottabad.

Keep in mind that AQ is a ghost organization, it has no “declared office” and “declared” public relations officer. Everything is just “claimed” by fcuk knows who? Anyways,


1. They deny the killing:
In this case, they will have to provide proof that US is lying about this situation. The only proof that would had been accepted is a video of OBL clearly stating that “he is alive and death to US and infidels” etc. which they cannot do, why? Because Osama has been dead for quite a while now.. (many circumstantial evidences support this)

Now, if they still deny the killing of 2nd May, they will lose face as there won’t be any Osama to support their claim and if they said that Osama died on so and so date, everybody would ask why it was not informed? A liar is not a good Muslim, isn’t it?

2. They accept the killing:
Due to (some) reasons declared above, it was not in favour of AQ to deny the US claim, So, they accepted the claim, declaring Osama as Shaheed, this provided them with additional leverage in two ways

- US will have to answer all the queries and questions raising due to covering of a lie. For that purpose, US government will have to have AQ’s support; hence, you can see USA’s increased support of AQ in Libya, Syria and Lebanon etc.
- A dead Osama, who died few years back is not worth anything for AQ, as compared to Osama dying recently in an “illegal” operation which is against Sovereignty of a country.

As you can see, there have been people calling Osama “shaheed”, where as he died “physical” death long time ago “naturally”, that won’t make him shaheed now, would it?

Just my two cents.. Hope they helped!

 

[S.M.R]

Sadly, only your establishment can answer that question bro. It's a pity that they are becoming so contradictory in their statements. It just makes the question more vexing.

Even they cant, as you need to understand that authorities could not get the information of US seals crossed the border, attacked / captured that Mansion and flew back. They left one heli's wreckage there, or say, one heli blown for whatever reason and its wreckage was ample proof of US operation.

Since Pakis were totally unaware of the secret operation, which caused embarrassment for whole nation, therefore they were not in a position to ask US that whether OBL was there or not, or why his body was thrown into sea without showing to independent experts for verification, etc. etc. etc. AND they have to believe what ever US said.

You know what, they would have to believe if US would have claimed that they found Hitler in that mansion, killed him and thrown his body into sea.

 

[sur]

Let me put all of these in a different way, if whatever is said to be lie, why haven't AQ come out and disputed it yet?

Because THERE IS NO Al-CIAdah for real,,, it's just a ghost organization perpetuated by CIA & media...

 

[monitor]

Was Usama Bin Laden Insider Helping Navy SEALs?
Posted on May 23, 2011 by


An in-depth pocket guide to Osama Bin Laden’s hideout that was used by U.S. Navy Seals suggests a mole was living alongside the terror leader, it emerged today.


The colour guide was dropped by one of the special forces soldiers when they raided the home in Abottabad, northwestern Pakistan on May 1.

It features an unseen picture of Bin Laden’s Yemeni wife, Amal, and two of his son, Khalid, alongside detailed descriptions.

The document suggests that Bin Laden, 54, lived in the hideout with three wives. There were only two other men in the house, alongside Bin Laden’s children and grandchildren.

The book also points to two ‘unidentified children’ that may have been twins fathered by Bin Laden with Amal.

The emergence of the guide raises new questions about how the U.S. gathered intelligence on the Al Qaeda leader.

‘In my experience of years as an intelligence office, I think someone from the inside may have given information,’ Rahman Malik, the interior minister and former head of Pakistan’s Federal Information agency told the Sunday Times.

‘If the Americans didn’t have definite information, they couldn’t have gone straight straight to the room where Bin Laden was.’

U.S. President Barack Obama acknowledged that the raid on Bin Laden’s compound had been a ‘calculated risk’ that could have ended very differently.

The president said that even with months of intelligence work, the odds bin Laden was in the compound were only about 55-45.

U.S. officials monitored the progress of the raid from the White House on cameras mounted on helmets of the Seals.

The troops planned to abseil onto the roof of the compound from a hovering helicopter while other soldiers filed in from the ground.

But one chopper crashed in the grounds after it clipped a security wall. It is understood that the guide was then dropped.

The document, which features only the second known photograph of the wife apart from her passport image, was gathered up from the wreckage.

On the first page are pictures of Bin Laden, Amal, and two images of his son Khalid – one original and one computer-enhanced picture of how he might have aged. On the other side is a picture of the courier Arshad Khan and a description of his brother, another courier.

The first page details even the clothing that Bin Laden was expected to have been wearing.

‘Always wears light coloured shawal kameez with a dark vest,’ it states. ‘Occasionally wears a light coloured prayer cap.’

The document describes Bin Laden as between 6’4” and 6’6” tall. Hi alias is listed as ‘Shaykh’ with brown hair and brown eyes.

The wives are listed in order of importance to Bin Laden. Amal tops the list with details of a nine-year-old daughter, Safiyah, and two unidentified children who are believed to be twins.

Amal is followed by second wife Siham, 54, including her son Khalid, 23, daughters Miriam, 20, and Sumaya, 16.

Third wife Khayriya, 62, is listed alongisde son Hamza, 21, his wife Maryam, son Usama, four, and daughter Khayriya, one. It states that the third wife and her son were released from Iranian custody in July 2010.

Such detailed information about Bin Laden’s clothes would have been difficult to collect from satellites images as he lived behind high walls.

Following the raid, Bin Laden’s two elder wives have accused Amal of betraying the terror leader by leaking information.

The two Saudi women also suggest that she may have been tracked by U.S. forces to Abbottabad.

U.S. officials denied they had used a mole and insisted that their intelligence gathering had helped to produce the book.

They said that a CIA safe house that was set up nearby and satellite images from drones were used to monitor the compound. Agents were also gathering information on the ground.

A CIA official said that a ‘false or partial narrative’ may have been given about how Bin Laden was found as ‘protecting source and method is very important’.

The presence of Bin Laden in such a busy town has led the U.S. to suggest that sources from within Pakistan may have helped to shelter the terrorist.

Source: Daily Mail Uk

 

[dabong1]

There are lots of different ways to assess the cost of the ‘War on Terror’ over the last ten years.

One of the cost to people’s security and way of life; i.e., numerous terrorism acts in the UK, Patriot Act in the US, increased security measures at airports, suspicion at fellow citizens, terrorist scares etc.

Another is the loss of life; not just the Britons and the Americans who died on 9/11 and 7/7 but the thousands of innocent Iraqis and Afghanis who died as a result of bombs and raids. The innocent dead in Spain, in Bali and terrorist attacks in other Middle Eastern countries such as Syria.

Then there is the financial cost of the WoT. Ezra Klein at the WashPo says this is what Bin Laden really wanted to see escalated:

“We, alongside the mujaheddin, bled Russia for 10 years, until it went bankrupt,” he later explained. The campaign taught bin Laden a lot. For one thing, superpowers fall because their economies crumble, not because they’re beaten on the battlefield. For another, superpowers are so allergic to losing that they’ll bankrupt themselves trying to conquer a mass of rocks and sand. This was bin Laden’s plan for the United States, too.

And how much did this cost the US alone?

Nobel laureate Joseph Stiglitz estimates that the price tag on the Iraq War alone will surpass $3 trillion. Afghanistan likely amounts to another trillion or two. Add in the build-up in homeland security spending since 9/11 and you’re looking at another trillion.“He has compared the United States to the Soviet Union on numerous occasions — and these comparisons have been explicitly economic,” Gartenstein-Ross argued in a Foreign Policy article. “For example, in October 2004 bin Laden said that just as the Arab fighters and Afghan mujaheddin had destroyed Russia economically, al Qaeda was now doing the same to the United States, ‘continuing this policy in bleeding America to the point of bankruptcy.’ ”

For bin Laden, in other words, success was not to be measured in body counts. It was to be measured in deficits, in borrowing costs, in investments we weren’t able to make in our country’s continued economic strength. And by those measures, bin Laden landed a lot of blows. And don’t forget the indirect costs of all this turmoil: The Federal Reserve, worried about a fear-induced recession, slashed interest rates after the attack on the World Trade Center, and then kept them low to combat skyrocketing oil prices, a byproduct of the war in Iraq. That decade of loose monetary policy may well have contributed to the credit bubble that crashed the economy in 2007 and 2008.

Then there’s the post-9/11 slowdown in the economy, the time wasted in airports, the foregone returns on investments we didn’t make, the rise in oil prices as a result of the Iraq War, the cost of rebuilding Ground Zero, health care for the first responders and much, much more.

Different people will of course focus on different aspects to this war. All are important costs. And in each case its arguable that the cost incurred in order to “defeat Bin Laden” was exactly what Bin Laden would have wanted and was way in excess of what anyone anticipated.
Osama bin Laden didn’t win, but he was ‘enormously successful’ - The Washington Post