Osama bin Laden may be in Parachinar: Report

[Rafael]

just wondering, whats his DOB? or How old is he?

Average life span in south asia is what,...... 48?

he must have been resting underground........

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

uhhhhh

Im from Parachinar (Alaam Sheyr village in Upper Kurram)

as Parachinar is controlled mostly by us Turris, I am very skeptical that bin laden would last even 2 minutes in Parachinar. Our people (regardless of tribe or sect) know the land VERY well. People talk a lot about foreigners and are suspicious. I can speak with confidence and say that Kurram is one region in FATA where anything related to taleban/AQ/OBL will arouse suspicion and anger.

They have no support where we come from. Waziristan or Mohmand --maybe they have pockets of support. But Kurram -- no way. Even the bangash tribe (which was brainwashed by pro-taleban wallis to attack Shiia Turris) they are realizing that taleban is a cancer of society.

i doubt he (OBL) is even in Pakistan. Who knows if the man is even alive at this point?




p.s. while i get angry and upset by the drone attacks --i am very pleased that the drones hit target in lower kurram. We are very nationalistic people and love our country ---but we are as passionate about our hate for taleban.

I would support an indian before i supported a taleban militant. I HATE THEM.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

for all we bloody-well know, ''osama'' could be chilling in a CIA guest-house in Honolulu for Gods sakes!!!

it was American/CIA who were blessing and showering him with weapons and cash --just like saudi wahhaby royal family.


If Pakistani leaders had some dignity, they would be the ones grabbing the americans and the heads of wahhaby establishment --and telling them that they are partly responsible for the problems we are facing in northern Pakistan.


I really pray that we can restore our areas back to their former glory ---when places like Swat were called the 'Switzerland' of Asia region.

 

[waraich66]

uhhhhh

Im from Parachinar (Alaam Sheyr village in Upper Kurram)

as Parachinar is controlled mostly by us Turris, I am very skeptical that bin laden would last even 2 minutes in Parachinar. Our people (regardless of tribe or sect) know the land VERY well. People talk a lot about foreigners and are suspicious. I can speak with confidence and say that Kurram is one region in FATA where anything related to taleban/AQ/OBL will arouse suspicion and anger.

They have no support where we come from. Waziristan or Mohmand --maybe they have pockets of support. But Kurram -- no way. Even the bangash tribe (which was brainwashed by pro-taleban wallis to attack Shiia Turris) they are realizing that taleban is a cancer of society.

i doubt he (OBL) is even in Pakistan. Who knows if the man is even alive at this point?




p.s. while i get angry and upset by the drone attacks --i am very pleased that the drones hit target in lower kurram. We are very nationalistic people and love our country ---but we are as passionate about our hate for taleban.

I would support an indian before i supported a taleban militant. I HATE THEM.

I can feel you anger , talaban should not fight with turri , recent history show shia helped US in Iraq and also iran offered land route to US .

You are in minority , so need to keep your self away or nuetral .

History of Turri
KURRAM : TURI
Turi tribe .
Turi are a Pashtun tribe on the Kohat border of the North-West Frontier Province of Pakistan. The Turis inhabit the Kurram Valley, which adjoins the western end of the Miranzai Valley. They speak Pashto and ranking as Pashtun, they are by origin a Turki tribe, of the Shiah sect, who subjected the Bangash Afghans some time early in the eighteenth century. They are strong, hardy, and courageous, and are rated horsemen. Their early dealings with the British government were inclined to turbulence, and they were concerned in the Miranzai expeditions of 1851 and 1855. But the only expedition specially sent against them was the Kurram expedition of 1856. Since then they have settled down and engaged in trade. During the Second Afghan War they supplied Sir Frederick Roberts with guides and provisions. In 1892 they voluntarily accepted British administration. They now furnish a large part of the tribal militia in the Kurram Valley.
The kurram, like various other rivers of the frontier, finds mention in the “Rig Veda” , and its valley must always have been one of the easiest and most used routes into India for the great migrations which took place between 4,000 to 2,000 BC; although no detailed information is available about this. The river is mentioned under the name of Krumu, as one of the tributaries, which joins the Indus on its right bank. The Safed-koh range that forms the boundary of the present kurram Agency appears to be the same as the ancient svethpatha, and it is likely that the rich and healthy uplands of the kurram and khost areas would always have been a place of habitation and agriculture. As in other parts of the frontier too a number of Hindu names of mountain peaks and rivers exist to the present day, proving the undoubted occupation of the country by early Hindu Aryan immigrants. It seems likely that a greek settlement was established in the area by the successors of Alexander, for in the inscriptions found in the Sanchi stupas in mountain of gift by a Greek resident of the Sufed koh, or the sevethpatha. Three coins recently found in Bagzai village have been identified as belonging to the reign of king Sotermegas, or Kodphises 2; another coins of the horseman and ball type, found in the same place has been attributed to the Sahia dynasty that ruled over the entire territory between the Indus and Afghanistan in the 10th century AD.
The first definite landmark in the history of the kurram was the fact that 1148 A.D, Behram Shah of Ghazni fled there after being defeated in battle, and gathered forces with which he subsequently returned and recovered ghazni, in 1163 the Sultan of Ghor placed his brother Mohammad in-charge of the area, and in 1176-77 he conferred the two villages Shilozan and Karman on one of his dependents, Taj-ud-Din Yaldaz, and used to halt her every year on his way to India. After his assassination his body was taken back to Ghazni through the Kurram, of which Karman remained the capital until 1206 From thjis date until 1239 was a period of confused fighting when a succession of rulers held sway. The interruption of the Mangols in 1239 submerged the Kurram, and it disappears from history until humayun , who then ruled at Kabul occupation it before his re-conquest of India. This was immediately after its occupation by the Bangash tribe, who trace their descent from the Quresh tribe of Arabia, and who appear to have descended on the kurram valley after wandering for nearly two centuries though the southern Punjab and back through Waziristan to Khost. At the time of Akbar, the kurram was a part of the area held by this tribe and was divided into two districts of Upper Bangash, or the Kurram valley proper and Lower Bangash, the present kohat district. The Afghans of this tract, called Karlanria Afghan, were known as Roshanis after the of their religion leader, and they led Afghan opposition to Moghul rule,with the kurram as a secure base. They were suppressed under Jehangir, but the Moghuls appear to have exercised very little real control at this remote periphery of their empire, and the area was nominally governed, independently of Kabul, by Bangash tribal leaders from Kohat. On the breakup of the Moghul Empire, the kurram became part of the kingdom of Afghanistan; but in the meanwhile the Turis had overcome the Bangash tribes. This followed the great dispersal from central Afghanistan where most of the tribes led by the Yusafzais, who now inhabit the north-west frontier of India poured over the mountains into their present homes. The origin of the Turis is obscure; it appears that after a period of migration, up and down the kurram in the manner of Powindahs, they had settled at Nilab on the banks of the Indus, whence they gradually forced their way, perhaps on account of droughts and the pressure of increasing population as permanent settlers up to the kurram valley. One theory says that they are of Turkish origin; Mohammad Hayat Khan says that they are Karlanria Afghan; Lumsden says they are descended from Mughols while Edwards and other hold that they are a Hindki race.
The Turis themselves say that they came originally from Persia, and that driven from there they wandered in nomadic fashion till they came to Arabia and the adjacent country at the top of the valley. There they established a summer headquarters, and in the winter took their flocks and herds down country as far as the Indus. Returning each year to the parent colony. All authorities are agreed that the Turis are not pure Afghans although in language, customs and habits (except their religion) they are Pathans. No true Afghan , however, is a Shiah, and the Shiahs of Afghanistan all belong to non-Afghan races such as the Hazarahs, Kizilbash, and Tajik etc.
Throughout the seventeenth century the Bangashes remained in possession of the Kurram, While the Turis from the country above pursued their nomad wanderings up and down the valley. Meanwhile the Turis appear to have increased in strength and numbers, while the Bangashes were weakened not only by internal fends but by the drain on their recourses caused by the colonization of Miranzai and by the struggles with the Orakzai for the possession of that valley. Finally, according to story, about the beginning of the eighteenth century matters reached a crises over an insult offered to a Turi women. The Turi threw off the disguise of nomad vassals, and attacked and conquered Barki which stands on the higher ground above Khalachi. Then they proceeded to consolidate themselves for a time, after which they captured Paiwar. They then held command of the two passes from Afghanistan. The chief obstacle to further progress lay in the villages of Shilozan and Zeran, by far the largest in the valley. With these some arrangement was made, and passing by Shilzan, the Turis took Milana. Paiwar was divided among the Chardai section and Milana among the Saragalla. Once the Turi were in possession of these upper villages, the tide of conquest flowed on uninterruptedly. The Bangashes of shilozan and Zeran were not long in perceiving the turn of affairs, and on their embracing the Shia tenets were admitted into full brotherhood and equal rights with Turis. The remaining Bangashes pressed from above and probably summoned from below to joint in the struggle with the Orakzai, appear to have made little resistance, and the Turis soon found themselves in possession of the whole valley with the Bangashes as their dependents or clients.
It is to be remembered, however, that the tribe at that time still retained its nomadic habits, and was devoid of any fixed residence except for the settlements under the Safed-koh, Which they had previously wrested from the Bangshes and used mainly as summer headquarters. Their presence in the summer in the Parachinar plateau and their alliance with the Bangshes of Shilozan and Zeran enabled them to retain an effective hold over the plateau. To the east they weer threatened by the Chamkanis, but a series of campaigns against the encroaching section of about Bughaki, the Jalandharis, and the Shargha Khels, who had crossed the hills into the Kurram watershed and settled at Jallandhar and Shakardara, embracing the Shiah religion settling down as allies of the Turis. In the lower Kurram the case was otherwise and the Turis confined their annexation to only that portion of the country, which lay on their line of march to their winter grazing grounds.
This route lay on the western side of Charmoghar, and conscquently left untouched the country on the riverbank from arawali up to the mouth of the parachinar plateau. At this point the valley is wide and the country comparatively flat and open, and pressure from above resulted in the tide of occupation, flowing down to within a few miles of Sadda. Here the hills close in, and the configuration of the country is reversed, as the broadening of the valley is in the direction of the Tirah hills.



Tribes

Tribes Of Upper Kurram

Kurram is divided into three distinct areas of Lower, Upper and FR Kurram. The Upper Kurram is the most populated part of the Agency and inhibited the most prominent and popular tribes of Turi and Bangash along with some other small tribes of Mungals, Jajis, Muqbals and Hazaras. The Lower Kurram is inhibited by relatively small number of Turis, Sunni Bangash and well-organized Zaimakht tribes. The FR Kurram is mainly populated by the Para- Chamkannis, Ali Sherzai and Massuzai tribes.
TURI
It was the end of the fifteen-century that the Turi tribe first came into prominence. They wandered in nomadic fashion till they came to Ariob in Afghanistan, the adjacent area at the top of the valley and they established their summer headquarters and in the winter took their flocks down as for as the river Indus. From Nilab, on the bank of Indus River near Attack, the tribe appears to have annually immigrated during the hot weather to the Kurram Valley, then owned by the Bangash. In his dairy of the 1506 A.D. the Emperor Babur mentions the presence of Turis in the Kurram valley.

Origin Of Turis
The Pathan genealogies show the Turis, as well as the Jajis, to be Ghurghusht Pathans of the Kakai Karlanri branch. In genealogy according to Olaf Caroe, They are Karlanri Pukhtuns, with Khugiani and Zazi (Jajis) as their Tarbors (cousins). All of them are the descendents of Khugi; a son of Koday from his second wife and thus Koday in turn is a son of Karlanri.The Turis, themselves claim that they came originally from Persia with a Turkish family headed by Toghani who married with a Persian lady. This Turkish family quite later migrated eastward from Persia sometime before the establishment of the Mughal Empire in India and eventually settled at Nilab. In other place they claim that they came from Samarkand to Nilab. If their migration from Persia is considered then this afford a plausible explanation to the Shia religion of the Turis.There is little bit doubt in the origin of tribes that they established their summer headquarters at the head of the Valley and in the winter they took their flocks and herds down as for as the Indus at Nilab returning each year to the parent colony. The Bangash remained throughout the century in possession of the Kurram valley while the Turis pursued their nomadic wanderings up and down the valley. During one of their annual migration, about the year 1700 A.D. a quarrel broke out between the Turis and the Bangash owing to an insult of a Turi woman. At that time the Jajis and Turis were united and the first assault made on the Bangash took place in the Hariob valley, which the Jajis seized. The Turis, throwing off the disguise of nomad vassals, attacked and captured Berki, which stands on the high grounds above Kharlachi. Then they proceeded to consolidate themselves for a time, after which they captured Peiwar and by passing Shalozan they took Malana in the Upper Kurram. Once the Turis were in possession of these upper villages, the tide of conquest followed on uninterruptedly. The Turis gradually made themselves masters of the Kurram valley. They drove the Bangash out of the Kurram valley and settled in the major villages of Peiwar, Berki, Krakhela, Kachkena, Malana, Bilyamin, Alizai and the Road Ghara (Bank of the River Kurram). The Turis maintained possession of the valley till the middle of the 19th century, when they were in turn conquered by the Afghan, who remained till the second Anglo-Afghan, war of 1879-80. Finally the Turis came under the protection of the British Government in 1892. The Turis are the main and powerful tribe in the Kurram valley. The Turis are divided into five main sections or clans, sometimes spoken of collectively as the Paniplara (literally five fathers).

BANGASH
Bangash is one of the major Pakhtun tribe. Though, some traditions has a claim of their Arab origin but it is hard to testify this claim and its validity in term of who they are. it suffices to note that by all standard they are perfect afghans are Pakhtuns. Their commons ancestor Ismail, lived at Gardiz in Afghanistan but they were hard pressed by the powerful Ghilzai tribe and thus sometime toward the end of fourteen or in the beginning of the fifteen century they migrated eastward. After, wandering through Multan, Derajat and Khost area for almost two centuries they finally settled in the Kurram valley by the time came the Turis, who at the first were subordinate to them but gradually in their own turn decline the Bangash and pushed them in to the Kohat district .However, a significant number of them still live in big villages of Shalozan and Zeran in the upper Kurram. They are no more different from their co-religious Turi, accept, perhaps in the pride of family and tribal origin. They are mostly referred together as Turi- Bangash and enjoy equal rights. Sharing the faith of Shiaism in Islam, they follow their common religious and traditional leadership. Like the Turi, they also deeply revered Sayeds families and at the same time equally divided in the Drewandi and the Mian Murid factions.

MANGALS AND MUQBILS
Mangals, Muqbils and Zadrans,, according to Olaf Caroe are believed to be the descendent of the same line of their ancestors as that of Turis , Zazi and Khogianis. Majority of these tribe are living across the border in Afghanistan of Paktia and Khost provinces. For different reason some of them come into the valley and started living along side the Turi in Kurram. The Mangal setters also came originally from Gabar and are settled in a scattered habitation from the Paiwar kotal to Zeran in the vicinity of Spin Ghar lower hills and higher villages behind the villages of Paiwar, Shalozan, Mulana, and Zeran. The villages they hold directly under their control are Turi kotri sursurang under the Paiwar kotal.

Khiljis or Ghaljis
The Ghilzais (also known as Khiljis or Ghaljis) are one of two largest groups of Pashtuns, along with the Durani tribe, found in Afghanistan with a large group also found in neighboring Pakistan. They are the most populous Pashtun tribe in Afghanistan, occupying the north of Kandahar and extending eastwards towards the Suleiman Mountains.
The Ghilzais are concentrated in an area spanning Ghazni and Kalat-i-Ghilzai eastward into western Pakistan, but are predominantly a nomadic group unlike the Durrani who can be found in permanent settlements. Population estimates vary, but they are most likely around 20 to 25% of the population of Afghanistan and probably number over 9 million in Afghanistan alone with 2 million or more found in neighboring Pakistan. They are reputed to be descended at least in part from the Khalaj or Khilji Turks, who entered Afghanistan in the 10th century as well as the numerous other invaders from Central Asia and the Middle East who have entered Afghanistan over the centuries. Most Ghilzai are Sunni Muslims of the Hanafi school and are often devout to their faith and also follow the Pashtun code of honor known as Pashtunwali.. Most Ghilzai work as herders as well as in construction and other jobs that allow them to travel. Often displaying an uncanny mechanical apptitude, the Ghilzai nonetheless have an extremely low literacy rate hovering below 10%.
The Ghilzai have played a prominent role throughout the history of the Middle East, Central Asia, and South Asia.. The Nasher (Ghaznavids) are Ghilzais, as well as the Lodi dynasty, who were rulers of the Delhi Sultanate (1450–1526), were Ghilzai Pashtuns. In 1709, Mirwais Khan Hotak, a Ghilzai Pashtun and founder of the short-lived Hotaki Dynasty (1709-38), led an Afghan tribal revolt against Persian rule that eventually led to the short-lived Afghan domination of Persia from 1722 until 1734 when Nadir Shah began to wrest control from the Ghilzais.
Tribes of F.R Kurram
Kurram, as mentioned earlier, is an un-administered area totally independent and isolated. This part of the Kurram Agency is inhabited by powerful tribes of Ali Sherzai , Massuzai, and Para Chamkanis. To have a better understanding of the tribal configuration, the area may be represented by the better k. If from the point where the three lines meet, a fourth line be drawn to the right horizontally, the meeting point of the four lines is Sadda the upright is the kurram river, the lowest quarter is Zaimusht area, the next Ali Sherzai, the next Massuzai and the highest and last Para Chamkani. A brief description of these tribes are given below.

ALI SHERZAI
The Alisherzai,s occupy a strip of country screeching from Sadda along the top of Zaimusht area . The Alisherzai are of Orakzai origin for the purposes of jurisdiction they are divided into pitao and sorai (those who live on the sunny side of the hill and those who live in the shady side). The former are under the kurram political jurisdiction and the later Kohat . Some of the Alisherzai own property and live in Sada (a sub-division and flourishing market), Kurram Agency . They have practically less connection with there co-tribes man in the inaccessible area. with the rest of the Alisherzai tribe the Kurram authorities have little dealing.

MASSUZAI
Massuzai are also Orakzai the factional division are formed into the Gar & Samil Massuzai . The former consist of the Mastukhail and Dilmarzai and later of the Ashkhel and khwajAkhel. A section of the tribe live in the Khurmana valley in Tirah. Massuzai have no land in upper and lower kurram. The Gar Massuzai, used to have land at some dissent period Ibrahimzai and Baleshkhel villages near sada. It finally passed over from their hands but on a compromises, whereby the, new in habitant became bamsayas of the Gar Massuzais, and were bound to entertain the Jurga when it came to Sada.

PARA CHAMKANI
The Chamkanis are traditionally supposed to belong to the Ghoriakhel section of the Sarbani pakhtoon. Some authority assign them a Persian origin. They certainly have no connection with the Afridies are Orakzai but by their Sarbani origin they are related to the Mohmands, Daudzai, and Khalils tribe settled in and around Peshawar in the sixteenth century, some of them moved to the north of the east of the kurram valley near Kirman village on the northern slopes of the Sikharam of the spin Ghar range. However, most of the tribe is at present located in the Thabai and awi Darras, in the Khumana valley in Tirah. Although, there is some doubt as to whether the tribe should be called Chamkani are Para Chamkani, since it is contended that the later name belong on the to the Haji khel section. The matter is however, of academic interest only, because people of the kurram in talking of the tribes speak of them as Parras, omitting all together the tag Chamkani.
The Chamkanis are divided into four main section, the Badakhel, as already mentioned have left the tribe altogether and have settled in the Kurram proper. The Khanikhel, the Hajikhel, and the Khwajakhel, who divide into two parties, the Khanikhel, who live far back around Thabai, the khwajak and Haji Khels who live near Kirman in upper Kurram .They are more accessible and are to a large extent dependent for their safe passage on Turi tribe and are somewhat amenable. Whereas, the Khanikhel occupy a possession very like that of Massuzai. In the whole history of British occupation of the valley there had always been trouble while dealing with one or other section of the Para- Chamkanis. FR. Kurram is still a closed and prohibited area with no roads hospitals, and Schools.
The Kurram Militia

The conquest of Punjab was completed by the British in 1849, but with in the British also acquired the perpetual and insolvable problem of North West Frontier. The high mountains of the area were an effective barrier against invasion, provided the passes were held. The rugged and mountainous nature of terrain made the administration of the area is very difficult, and the freedom loving characteristics of the tribal people of the area made government by foreigners almost impossible. By tradition, in some cases, they were predators through economic necessity and as fanatics they fiercely resisted only rule by the Sikhs or Christians. It was also difficult to make them hold to any agreement, because they would not acknowledge a master. After the annexation of Punjab, the British found the tribesmen on obstacle to the effective management of the vulnerable border with Afghanistan and ultimately Russian. Initially the British followed the “Closed Door Policy”, but by the end of the nineteenth century they switched to “Forward Policy” i.e. of occupying and administering the country right upto the “Durand Line”. This policy was adopted once the British failed to conquer and subjugate the Pathans. To this end a new province by the name of North West Frontier was created to help in the administration of the area. They also found a novel way of solving the problem, and that was to recruit the locals in the Frontier Brigade of the Indian Army. Later on the British raised the Frontier Scouts and assigned the responsibility of security of the region.

Traditionally Afghanistan claimed suzerainty over the Kurram Valley, but apart from an occasional revenue extorting expeditions, they were unable to enforce their writ until the mid nineteenth century, when they occupied the valley with a military force and established their own Afghan Governor. They were finally driven out in the Second Afghan War 1878-80.

The Turis tribe in Kurram Agency, except for their initial troubles in the year 1850-55, always enjoyed cordial relations with the British. They had helped them against Kabul Khel Wazirs in 1859 and against the Zaimukht Tribe in 1879. It was neither the policy of the British government to annex the Kurram Valley nor did they want to get physically involved in the area. However, what the British wanted was to inculcate a spirit of self-reliance, self-protection and self-governance by the Turis themselves. However when the Turis took over the country, due to intense hatred between various factions of the area, complete anarchy resulted, Kurram was occupied by Chikai, the famous Zaimukht leader, and the Turis of Upper Kurram had great difficulty in repulsing the attacks of their Sunni neighbours. Finally as the various tribes of the area would not combine amongst themselves, they came, at their own request under the protection of the British government in the year 1892. In September of that year regular Army troops arrived in the valley and Mr. Merk, I.C.S was appointed as its first British Governor. However, it was soon realised that maintaining regular Army to guard such a far-flung Frontier, bordering on hostile and troublesome tribes was a very expensive affair. A new policy was therefore chalked out. The Turis themselves were to be made custodians of the Frontier. The regular Army was to be replaced by the local Turis Militia, as a well trained and lightly equipped infantry force, fully acquainted with local conditions and amply conversant with the country side. The formation of Turis Militia was initiated under Captain C.M. Dallas on 18 Oct. 1892, with a view to avoid the serious commitment of regular Army units for the protection of borders as well as to provide protection to Turis Shia Community in the valley. The raising of Turi Militia was later on completed by Captain E.W.S.K Maconchey of the 4th Punjab Infantry. The headquarters of the Militia was originally located at Balish Khel about 30 kilometers east of Parachinar but was soon shifted to Parachinar itself. Initially in 1899 an experiment was made of dividing the Militia into two separate battalions under separate commandants. The first battalion with a strength of 957 was to be mobile force for defence against foreign aggression, while the second was for garrisoning the valley. However, when this arrangement proved impracticable, the two battalions were amalgamated under one commandant in 1902. About this time the Turi Militia was renamed as Kurram Militia.

 

[waraich66]

for all we bloody-well know, ''osama'' could be chilling in a CIA guest-house in Honolulu for Gods sakes!!!

it was American/CIA who were blessing and showering him with weapons and cash --just like saudi wahhaby royal family.


If Pakistani leaders had some dignity, they would be the ones grabbing the americans and the heads of wahhaby establishment --and telling them that they are partly responsible for the problems we are facing in northern Pakistan.


I really pray that we can restore our areas back to their former glory ---when places like Swat were called the 'Switzerland' of Asia region.

Yes CIA actually planted tree of Al Qaeda ,now grown up and have very deep routes but can you tell us what is concept in your mind of wahhaby , who are they?


The Turis tribe in Kurram Agency, except for their initial troubles in the year 1850-55, always enjoyed cordial relations with the British. They had helped them against Kabul Khel Wazirs in 1859 and against the Zaimukht Tribe in 1879.

Your tribe always helped brithers may that is reason talaban dont like turri tribe?

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

I can feel you anger , talaban should not fight with turri , recent history show shia helped US in Iraq and also iran offered land route to US .

You are in minority , so need to keep your self away or nuetral .

History of Turri
KURRAM : TURI
Turi tribe .
Turi are a Pashtun tribe on the Kohat border of the North-West Frontier Province of Pakistan. The Turis inhabit the Kurram Valley, which adjoins the western end of the Miranzai Valley. They speak Pashto and ranking as Pashtun, they are by origin a Turki tribe, of the Shiah sect, who subjected the Bangash Afghans some time early in the eighteenth century. They are strong, hardy, and courageous, and are rated horsemen. Their early dealings with the British government were inclined to turbulence, and they were concerned in the Miranzai expeditions of 1851 and 1855. But the only expedition specially sent against them was the Kurram expedition of 1856. Since then they have settled down and engaged in trade. During the Second Afghan War they supplied Sir Frederick Roberts with guides and provisions. In 1892 they voluntarily accepted British administration. They now furnish a large part of the tribal militia in the Kurram Valley.
The kurram, like various other rivers of the frontier, finds mention in the “Rig Veda” , and its valley must always have been one of the easiest and most used routes into India for the great migrations which took place between 4,000 to 2,000 BC; although no detailed information is available about this. The river is mentioned under the name of Krumu, as one of the tributaries, which joins the Indus on its right bank. The Safed-koh range that forms the boundary of the present kurram Agency appears to be the same as the ancient svethpatha, and it is likely that the rich and healthy uplands of the kurram and khost areas would always have been a place of habitation and agriculture. As in other parts of the frontier too a number of Hindu names of mountain peaks and rivers exist to the present day, proving the undoubted occupation of the country by early Hindu Aryan immigrants. It seems likely that a greek settlement was established in the area by the successors of Alexander, for in the inscriptions found in the Sanchi stupas in mountain of gift by a Greek resident of the Sufed koh, or the sevethpatha. Three coins recently found in Bagzai village have been identified as belonging to the reign of king Sotermegas, or Kodphises 2; another coins of the horseman and ball type, found in the same place has been attributed to the Sahia dynasty that ruled over the entire territory between the Indus and Afghanistan in the 10th century AD.
The first definite landmark in the history of the kurram was the fact that 1148 A.D, Behram Shah of Ghazni fled there after being defeated in battle, and gathered forces with which he subsequently returned and recovered ghazni, in 1163 the Sultan of Ghor placed his brother Mohammad in-charge of the area, and in 1176-77 he conferred the two villages Shilozan and Karman on one of his dependents, Taj-ud-Din Yaldaz, and used to halt her every year on his way to India. After his assassination his body was taken back to Ghazni through the Kurram, of which Karman remained the capital until 1206 From thjis date until 1239 was a period of confused fighting when a succession of rulers held sway. The interruption of the Mangols in 1239 submerged the Kurram, and it disappears from history until humayun , who then ruled at Kabul occupation it before his re-conquest of India. This was immediately after its occupation by the Bangash tribe, who trace their descent from the Quresh tribe of Arabia, and who appear to have descended on the kurram valley after wandering for nearly two centuries though the southern Punjab and back through Waziristan to Khost. At the time of Akbar, the kurram was a part of the area held by this tribe and was divided into two districts of Upper Bangash, or the Kurram valley proper and Lower Bangash, the present kohat district. The Afghans of this tract, called Karlanria Afghan, were known as Roshanis after the of their religion leader, and they led Afghan opposition to Moghul rule,with the kurram as a secure base. They were suppressed under Jehangir, but the Moghuls appear to have exercised very little real control at this remote periphery of their empire, and the area was nominally governed, independently of Kabul, by Bangash tribal leaders from Kohat. On the breakup of the Moghul Empire, the kurram became part of the kingdom of Afghanistan; but in the meanwhile the Turis had overcome the Bangash tribes. This followed the great dispersal from central Afghanistan where most of the tribes led by the Yusafzais, who now inhabit the north-west frontier of India poured over the mountains into their present homes. The origin of the Turis is obscure; it appears that after a period of migration, up and down the kurram in the manner of Powindahs, they had settled at Nilab on the banks of the Indus, whence they gradually forced their way, perhaps on account of droughts and the pressure of increasing population as permanent settlers up to the kurram valley. One theory says that they are of Turkish origin; Mohammad Hayat Khan says that they are Karlanria Afghan; Lumsden says they are descended from Mughols while Edwards and other hold that they are a Hindki race.
The Turis themselves say that they came originally from Persia, and that driven from there they wandered in nomadic fashion till they came to Arabia and the adjacent country at the top of the valley. There they established a summer headquarters, and in the winter took their flocks and herds down country as far as the Indus. Returning each year to the parent colony. All authorities are agreed that the Turis are not pure Afghans although in language, customs and habits (except their religion) they are Pathans. No true Afghan , however, is a Shiah, and the Shiahs of Afghanistan all belong to non-Afghan races such as the Hazarahs, Kizilbash, and Tajik etc.
Throughout the seventeenth century the Bangashes remained in possession of the Kurram, While the Turis from the country above pursued their nomad wanderings up and down the valley. Meanwhile the Turis appear to have increased in strength and numbers, while the Bangashes were weakened not only by internal fends but by the drain on their recourses caused by the colonization of Miranzai and by the struggles with the Orakzai for the possession of that valley. Finally, according to story, about the beginning of the eighteenth century matters reached a crises over an insult offered to a Turi women. The Turi threw off the disguise of nomad vassals, and attacked and conquered Barki which stands on the higher ground above Khalachi. Then they proceeded to consolidate themselves for a time, after which they captured Paiwar. They then held command of the two passes from Afghanistan. The chief obstacle to further progress lay in the villages of Shilozan and Zeran, by far the largest in the valley. With these some arrangement was made, and passing by Shilzan, the Turis took Milana. Paiwar was divided among the Chardai section and Milana among the Saragalla. Once the Turi were in possession of these upper villages, the tide of conquest flowed on uninterruptedly. The Bangashes of shilozan and Zeran were not long in perceiving the turn of affairs, and on their embracing the Shia tenets were admitted into full brotherhood and equal rights with Turis. The remaining Bangashes pressed from above and probably summoned from below to joint in the struggle with the Orakzai, appear to have made little resistance, and the Turis soon found themselves in possession of the whole valley with the Bangashes as their dependents or clients.
It is to be remembered, however, that the tribe at that time still retained its nomadic habits, and was devoid of any fixed residence except for the settlements under the Safed-koh, Which they had previously wrested from the Bangshes and used mainly as summer headquarters. Their presence in the summer in the Parachinar plateau and their alliance with the Bangshes of Shilozan and Zeran enabled them to retain an effective hold over the plateau. To the east they weer threatened by the Chamkanis, but a series of campaigns against the encroaching section of about Bughaki, the Jalandharis, and the Shargha Khels, who had crossed the hills into the Kurram watershed and settled at Jallandhar and Shakardara, embracing the Shiah religion settling down as allies of the Turis. In the lower Kurram the case was otherwise and the Turis confined their annexation to only that portion of the country, which lay on their line of march to their winter grazing grounds.
This route lay on the western side of Charmoghar, and conscquently left untouched the country on the riverbank from arawali up to the mouth of the parachinar plateau. At this point the valley is wide and the country comparatively flat and open, and pressure from above resulted in the tide of occupation, flowing down to within a few miles of Sadda. Here the hills close in, and the configuration of the country is reversed, as the broadening of the valley is in the direction of the Tirah hills.



Tribes

Tribes Of Upper Kurram

Kurram is divided into three distinct areas of Lower, Upper and FR Kurram. The Upper Kurram is the most populated part of the Agency and inhibited the most prominent and popular tribes of Turi and Bangash along with some other small tribes of Mungals, Jajis, Muqbals and Hazaras. The Lower Kurram is inhibited by relatively small number of Turis, Sunni Bangash and well-organized Zaimakht tribes. The FR Kurram is mainly populated by the Para- Chamkannis, Ali Sherzai and Massuzai tribes.
TURI
It was the end of the fifteen-century that the Turi tribe first came into prominence. They wandered in nomadic fashion till they came to Ariob in Afghanistan, the adjacent area at the top of the valley and they established their summer headquarters and in the winter took their flocks down as for as the river Indus. From Nilab, on the bank of Indus River near Attack, the tribe appears to have annually immigrated during the hot weather to the Kurram Valley, then owned by the Bangash. In his dairy of the 1506 A.D. the Emperor Babur mentions the presence of Turis in the Kurram valley.

Origin Of Turis
The Pathan genealogies show the Turis, as well as the Jajis, to be Ghurghusht Pathans of the Kakai Karlanri branch. In genealogy according to Olaf Caroe, They are Karlanri Pukhtuns, with Khugiani and Zazi (Jajis) as their Tarbors (cousins). All of them are the descendents of Khugi; a son of Koday from his second wife and thus Koday in turn is a son of Karlanri.The Turis, themselves claim that they came originally from Persia with a Turkish family headed by Toghani who married with a Persian lady. This Turkish family quite later migrated eastward from Persia sometime before the establishment of the Mughal Empire in India and eventually settled at Nilab. In other place they claim that they came from Samarkand to Nilab. If their migration from Persia is considered then this afford a plausible explanation to the Shia religion of the Turis.There is little bit doubt in the origin of tribes that they established their summer headquarters at the head of the Valley and in the winter they took their flocks and herds down as for as the Indus at Nilab returning each year to the parent colony. The Bangash remained throughout the century in possession of the Kurram valley while the Turis pursued their nomadic wanderings up and down the valley. During one of their annual migration, about the year 1700 A.D. a quarrel broke out between the Turis and the Bangash owing to an insult of a Turi woman. At that time the Jajis and Turis were united and the first assault made on the Bangash took place in the Hariob valley, which the Jajis seized. The Turis, throwing off the disguise of nomad vassals, attacked and captured Berki, which stands on the high grounds above Kharlachi. Then they proceeded to consolidate themselves for a time, after which they captured Peiwar and by passing Shalozan they took Malana in the Upper Kurram. Once the Turis were in possession of these upper villages, the tide of conquest followed on uninterruptedly. The Turis gradually made themselves masters of the Kurram valley. They drove the Bangash out of the Kurram valley and settled in the major villages of Peiwar, Berki, Krakhela, Kachkena, Malana, Bilyamin, Alizai and the Road Ghara (Bank of the River Kurram). The Turis maintained possession of the valley till the middle of the 19th century, when they were in turn conquered by the Afghan, who remained till the second Anglo-Afghan, war of 1879-80. Finally the Turis came under the protection of the British Government in 1892. The Turis are the main and powerful tribe in the Kurram valley. The Turis are divided into five main sections or clans, sometimes spoken of collectively as the Paniplara (literally five fathers).

BANGASH
Bangash is one of the major Pakhtun tribe. Though, some traditions has a claim of their Arab origin but it is hard to testify this claim and its validity in term of who they are. it suffices to note that by all standard they are perfect afghans are Pakhtuns. Their commons ancestor Ismail, lived at Gardiz in Afghanistan but they were hard pressed by the powerful Ghilzai tribe and thus sometime toward the end of fourteen or in the beginning of the fifteen century they migrated eastward. After, wandering through Multan, Derajat and Khost area for almost two centuries they finally settled in the Kurram valley by the time came the Turis, who at the first were subordinate to them but gradually in their own turn decline the Bangash and pushed them in to the Kohat district .However, a significant number of them still live in big villages of Shalozan and Zeran in the upper Kurram. They are no more different from their co-religious Turi, accept, perhaps in the pride of family and tribal origin. They are mostly referred together as Turi- Bangash and enjoy equal rights. Sharing the faith of Shiaism in Islam, they follow their common religious and traditional leadership. Like the Turi, they also deeply revered Sayeds families and at the same time equally divided in the Drewandi and the Mian Murid factions.

MANGALS AND MUQBILS
Mangals, Muqbils and Zadrans,, according to Olaf Caroe are believed to be the descendent of the same line of their ancestors as that of Turis , Zazi and Khogianis. Majority of these tribe are living across the border in Afghanistan of Paktia and Khost provinces. For different reason some of them come into the valley and started living along side the Turi in Kurram. The Mangal setters also came originally from Gabar and are settled in a scattered habitation from the Paiwar kotal to Zeran in the vicinity of Spin Ghar lower hills and higher villages behind the villages of Paiwar, Shalozan, Mulana, and Zeran. The villages they hold directly under their control are Turi kotri sursurang under the Paiwar kotal.

Khiljis or Ghaljis
The Ghilzais (also known as Khiljis or Ghaljis) are one of two largest groups of Pashtuns, along with the Durani tribe, found in Afghanistan with a large group also found in neighboring Pakistan. They are the most populous Pashtun tribe in Afghanistan, occupying the north of Kandahar and extending eastwards towards the Suleiman Mountains.
The Ghilzais are concentrated in an area spanning Ghazni and Kalat-i-Ghilzai eastward into western Pakistan, but are predominantly a nomadic group unlike the Durrani who can be found in permanent settlements. Population estimates vary, but they are most likely around 20 to 25% of the population of Afghanistan and probably number over 9 million in Afghanistan alone with 2 million or more found in neighboring Pakistan. They are reputed to be descended at least in part from the Khalaj or Khilji Turks, who entered Afghanistan in the 10th century as well as the numerous other invaders from Central Asia and the Middle East who have entered Afghanistan over the centuries. Most Ghilzai are Sunni Muslims of the Hanafi school and are often devout to their faith and also follow the Pashtun code of honor known as Pashtunwali.. Most Ghilzai work as herders as well as in construction and other jobs that allow them to travel. Often displaying an uncanny mechanical apptitude, the Ghilzai nonetheless have an extremely low literacy rate hovering below 10%.
The Ghilzai have played a prominent role throughout the history of the Middle East, Central Asia, and South Asia.. The Nasher (Ghaznavids) are Ghilzais, as well as the Lodi dynasty, who were rulers of the Delhi Sultanate (1450–1526), were Ghilzai Pashtuns. In 1709, Mirwais Khan Hotak, a Ghilzai Pashtun and founder of the short-lived Hotaki Dynasty (1709-38), led an Afghan tribal revolt against Persian rule that eventually led to the short-lived Afghan domination of Persia from 1722 until 1734 when Nadir Shah began to wrest control from the Ghilzais.
Tribes of F.R Kurram
Kurram, as mentioned earlier, is an un-administered area totally independent and isolated. This part of the Kurram Agency is inhabited by powerful tribes of Ali Sherzai , Massuzai, and Para Chamkanis. To have a better understanding of the tribal configuration, the area may be represented by the better k. If from the point where the three lines meet, a fourth line be drawn to the right horizontally, the meeting point of the four lines is Sadda the upright is the kurram river, the lowest quarter is Zaimusht area, the next Ali Sherzai, the next Massuzai and the highest and last Para Chamkani. A brief description of these tribes are given below.

ALI SHERZAI
The Alisherzai,s occupy a strip of country screeching from Sadda along the top of Zaimusht area . The Alisherzai are of Orakzai origin for the purposes of jurisdiction they are divided into pitao and sorai (those who live on the sunny side of the hill and those who live in the shady side). The former are under the kurram political jurisdiction and the later Kohat . Some of the Alisherzai own property and live in Sada (a sub-division and flourishing market), Kurram Agency . They have practically less connection with there co-tribes man in the inaccessible area. with the rest of the Alisherzai tribe the Kurram authorities have little dealing.

MASSUZAI
Massuzai are also Orakzai the factional division are formed into the Gar & Samil Massuzai . The former consist of the Mastukhail and Dilmarzai and later of the Ashkhel and khwajAkhel. A section of the tribe live in the Khurmana valley in Tirah. Massuzai have no land in upper and lower kurram. The Gar Massuzai, used to have land at some dissent period Ibrahimzai and Baleshkhel villages near sada. It finally passed over from their hands but on a compromises, whereby the, new in habitant became bamsayas of the Gar Massuzais, and were bound to entertain the Jurga when it came to Sada.

PARA CHAMKANI
The Chamkanis are traditionally supposed to belong to the Ghoriakhel section of the Sarbani pakhtoon. Some authority assign them a Persian origin. They certainly have no connection with the Afridies are Orakzai but by their Sarbani origin they are related to the Mohmands, Daudzai, and Khalils tribe settled in and around Peshawar in the sixteenth century, some of them moved to the north of the east of the kurram valley near Kirman village on the northern slopes of the Sikharam of the spin Ghar range. However, most of the tribe is at present located in the Thabai and awi Darras, in the Khumana valley in Tirah. Although, there is some doubt as to whether the tribe should be called Chamkani are Para Chamkani, since it is contended that the later name belong on the to the Haji khel section. The matter is however, of academic interest only, because people of the kurram in talking of the tribes speak of them as Parras, omitting all together the tag Chamkani.
The Chamkanis are divided into four main section, the Badakhel, as already mentioned have left the tribe altogether and have settled in the Kurram proper. The Khanikhel, the Hajikhel, and the Khwajakhel, who divide into two parties, the Khanikhel, who live far back around Thabai, the khwajak and Haji Khels who live near Kirman in upper Kurram .They are more accessible and are to a large extent dependent for their safe passage on Turi tribe and are somewhat amenable. Whereas, the Khanikhel occupy a possession very like that of Massuzai. In the whole history of British occupation of the valley there had always been trouble while dealing with one or other section of the Para- Chamkanis. FR. Kurram is still a closed and prohibited area with no roads hospitals, and Schools.
The Kurram Militia

The conquest of Punjab was completed by the British in 1849, but with in the British also acquired the perpetual and insolvable problem of North West Frontier. The high mountains of the area were an effective barrier against invasion, provided the passes were held. The rugged and mountainous nature of terrain made the administration of the area is very difficult, and the freedom loving characteristics of the tribal people of the area made government by foreigners almost impossible. By tradition, in some cases, they were predators through economic necessity and as fanatics they fiercely resisted only rule by the Sikhs or Christians. It was also difficult to make them hold to any agreement, because they would not acknowledge a master. After the annexation of Punjab, the British found the tribesmen on obstacle to the effective management of the vulnerable border with Afghanistan and ultimately Russian. Initially the British followed the “Closed Door Policy”, but by the end of the nineteenth century they switched to “Forward Policy” i.e. of occupying and administering the country right upto the “Durand Line”. This policy was adopted once the British failed to conquer and subjugate the Pathans. To this end a new province by the name of North West Frontier was created to help in the administration of the area. They also found a novel way of solving the problem, and that was to recruit the locals in the Frontier Brigade of the Indian Army. Later on the British raised the Frontier Scouts and assigned the responsibility of security of the region.

Traditionally Afghanistan claimed suzerainty over the Kurram Valley, but apart from an occasional revenue extorting expeditions, they were unable to enforce their writ until the mid nineteenth century, when they occupied the valley with a military force and established their own Afghan Governor. They were finally driven out in the Second Afghan War 1878-80.

The Turis tribe in Kurram Agency, except for their initial troubles in the year 1850-55, always enjoyed cordial relations with the British. They had helped them against Kabul Khel Wazirs in 1859 and against the Zaimukht Tribe in 1879. It was neither the policy of the British government to annex the Kurram Valley nor did they want to get physically involved in the area. However, what the British wanted was to inculcate a spirit of self-reliance, self-protection and self-governance by the Turis themselves. However when the Turis took over the country, due to intense hatred between various factions of the area, complete anarchy resulted, Kurram was occupied by Chikai, the famous Zaimukht leader, and the Turis of Upper Kurram had great difficulty in repulsing the attacks of their Sunni neighbours. Finally as the various tribes of the area would not combine amongst themselves, they came, at their own request under the protection of the British government in the year 1892. In September of that year regular Army troops arrived in the valley and Mr. Merk, I.C.S was appointed as its first British Governor. However, it was soon realised that maintaining regular Army to guard such a far-flung Frontier, bordering on hostile and troublesome tribes was a very expensive affair. A new policy was therefore chalked out. The Turis themselves were to be made custodians of the Frontier. The regular Army was to be replaced by the local Turis Militia, as a well trained and lightly equipped infantry force, fully acquainted with local conditions and amply conversant with the country side. The formation of Turis Militia was initiated under Captain C.M. Dallas on 18 Oct. 1892, with a view to avoid the serious commitment of regular Army units for the protection of borders as well as to provide protection to Turis Shia Community in the valley. The raising of Turi Militia was later on completed by Captain E.W.S.K Maconchey of the 4th Punjab Infantry. The headquarters of the Militia was originally located at Balish Khel about 30 kilometers east of Parachinar but was soon shifted to Parachinar itself. Initially in 1899 an experiment was made of dividing the Militia into two separate battalions under separate commandants. The first battalion with a strength of 957 was to be mobile force for defence against foreign aggression, while the second was for garrisoning the valley. However, when this arrangement proved impracticable, the two battalions were amalgamated under one commandant in 1902. About this time the Turi Militia was renamed as Kurram Militia.

a minority i am.....a Pashtun and a Shiia.

but my love for Pakistan is un-rivalled...Maybe your loyalties lie elsewhere. Maybe so is your attention.

Kindly post the link from where you got your info from. Also, be sure to remember how many people from our village served in the army, and currently serve in the frontier corps (and the Kurram para-military force).

then we can talk specifics.



look forward to your reply....



and i will never remain silent. Taleban and their ideology is the enemy of Pakistan. They are most jahhil people. Its easy to be a keyboard warrior when you havent even seen with your own eyes what taleban have been doing.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Yes CIA actually planted tree of Al Qaeda ,now grown up and have very deep routes but can you tell us what is concept in your mind of wahhaby , who are they?

living in As-Sa3odeyya should be enough exposure for you.....

i dont need to explain....except with the taleban, they went the extra mile and started blowing up girls schools, beheading, and bombing left right and center.

(and and and......)

The Turis tribe in Kurram Agency, except for their initial troubles in the year 1850-55, always enjoyed cordial relations with the British.

garbage....read the book ''The Khyber Rifles'' (forgot the authors name)

britishers used to get beheaded and hung by poles......brigader generals used to find their cadets beheaded and with their dicks in their mouth (true story by the way)


the britishers were annexing the whole region and we put up resistance. I wont doubt that there were some political agents (bangash, turri, etc.) on britisher pay-roll --but for the most part we fought the brits fare and square!!


the same way our ancestors --including my great great great grandfather Nur 'Dur' Khan (later the settler and founder of Parachinar) slaughtered indians and helped capture the koh-e-nour for Nader Shah's army. Enough looting from bhindia to the point where no taxes on citizens were necessary! Pakistan wasnt even a country when Turris were regulating things.

Your tribe always helped brithers may that is reason talaban dont like turri tribe?

whether they like us or not is irrelevant....every time a taleban or pro-taleban fighter engaged us or anyone in our village, we kicked the holy shıt out of them.

We still do. And we always will. We love our country, we love the land, we dont want these bearded assholes destabilizing it.



if there are taleban sympathizers on this website (in this day and age) who still call themselves patriots of Pakistan, then they need to undergo some mental therapy.


the only pro-taleban person i respect is Lt. Gen (retd.) Hamid Gül

 

[Captain03]

he's probably dead
u.s. probably killed him or hid him somewhere safe

 

[Omar1984]

Some U.S "experts" are very keen in getting into Pakistan, but they will never find Ossama Bin Laden inside Pakistan and if any country thinks they can easily invade Pakistani territory, they are crazy because Pakistan is no Afghanistan and Pakistan is no Iraq.

Pakistan is the only Muslim country with Nuclear Power and has the 5th largest military in the world. Pakistan has a very powerful army, navy, and air force.

The founder of Pakistan said that it is crucial for Pakistan to have a strong military or else Pakistan would be at the mercy of its aggressor.

 

[ksxyboy]

What I thought when I heard the news. but then I rationalized that maybe Osama, if he is really had been found, then he might be in CIA's custody already or about to be in.
does anyone agree with this theory ???

 

[roadrunner]

It's just some stupid bird migrational pattern based modelling done by some professor who either doesn't deserve his title, or is trying to set an agenda.

As if Osama would be dumb enough to stay in Pakistan if he were alive even, when he's got the wholeof sub-saharan Africa to live in complete peace away from everyone. Why stay in a region that's constantly under surveillance by drones, duhh.

 

[roopesh]

What I thought when I heard the news. but then I rationalized that maybe Osama, if he is really had been found, then he might be in CIA's custody already or about to be in.
does anyone agree with this theory ???

I dont think so the quation is that easy...If US would know where is OBL then they would have hanged him before elections to come to power. Assuming Americans as super power and they can do everything looks nonsense to me after looking at their economy collapse and job loss.

on the otherhand they are trying to get some hand in asian growing countries ...pakistan is the best place to settle...so i am kinda not able to guess the equation is that simple

 

[S-2]

"...it was American/CIA who were blessing and showering him with weapons and cash --just like saudi wahhaby royal family."

This is confused and incorrect. It is because of-

1.) the American relationship with the House of Saud that Obama really learned to hate the United States government. He considers our presence in S.A. to be an abomination and,

2.) because of his anti-American feelings and considerable personal income, he neither desired/seeked a relationship nor needed cash from us.

It was this personal fortune that made so invaluable to the mujahideen and then, ultimately, the taliban.

Nonetheless, your sense of basic patriotism has been impressively displayed already. Your country needs young men as yourself now. I welcome you here.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

"...it was American/CIA who were blessing and showering him with weapons and cash --just like saudi wahhaby royal family."

This is confused and incorrect. It is because of-

1.) the American relationship with the House of Saud that Obama really learned to hate the United States government. He considers our presence in S.A. to be an abomination and,

he did after the US pulled out and abandoned afghanistan....this was americans worst mistake. They felt betrayed that they helped fight your war (it was their war too of course) --and after the ruskies limped home then u guys left Afghanistan in total disarray and anarchy


a lot of the militancy we see in Afghanistan (and now Pakistan) is because of this fact..

2.) because of his anti-American feelings and considerable personal income, he neither desired/seeked a relationship nor needed cash from us.

i was talking about the period when USA was funneling cash to the mujahideen. When bin laden was a CIA agent. When Saudis would compete with americans on matching eachothers large donations to the fighters. When Prince Bandar went on behalf of America and KSA to personally thank OBL for his 'services'

but ur right --the man had his own shares in Saudi Binladin group. Thusly, he had plenty of access to funds --until he lost his passport and his family dis-owned him

It was this personal fortune that made so invaluable to the mujahideen and then, ultimately, the taliban.

as did american taxpayers' cash

Nonetheless, your sense of basic patriotism has been impressively displayed already. Your country needs young men as yourself now. I welcome you here.

i dont deserve any credit for doing something so basic such as loving my country and willingess to die for it.

Part of my work involves promoting/business development with Pakistan private sector. We all have a roll to play, but i dont deserve credit. thx anyways.

 

[superbikez]

Usmana bin laden lolz @ this man... He is just a Dream cinderela jisko sare dunya dhoond rahe hey and after heavy bombing carpet bombing egency work etc 1000000 people died but OSAMA BIN LADEN still alive lolz and He is alive forver till thn CIA and US agenda (half of Pakistan) lol