Give us some official source to confirm the first two point ..thanks
Options for Pakistan Navy
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Give us some official source to confirm the first two point ..thanks
Shinigami
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Aamir Hussain
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Guys we have been at it in different threads on PN for long.
Once again, PN does not require sea control around Indian EEZ. What it wants is sea denial in and around the EEZ of Pakistan. This fundamental difference in doctrines between IN and PN clearly dictates the differeces in aporach to building their respecitve fleets, differently.
PN has in the recent past started enhancing its maritime detection/patrol and strike power. I know that this wil continue in the years to come with the induction of Airborne EW platforms, enhanced and loger range strike capability through induction of JFT's and air refueling options being put in place.
The surface fleet will see (Logically) an enhnaced dependance upon smaller corvette type patrol platforms that can pose as big a threat as say a MP Frigate equipped with AShM. Even in case of hostilties, and without air cover these platform, if deployed in sufficient numbers will turn into a headache for any navy deployed for an offensive role Pakistan.
I suspect that procurment or desire to go for type 54 reperesnts an appreciation of enhnacing the air/point defence capabiltiy of th fleet. This buy is not to attack the Carrier group but to enhnace the anti air effrot for the ASW Hunter Killer groups (At least four needed) that will be deployed in times of war.
The Carrier group will be primarily dealt through agressive deployment of land based airpower equippmd with Babar/Ra'ad Cruise Missile as stand off strike with cover from either the J10 or the F-16's.
This will be complemented with undersea strike through the submarine assets in the shape of the three A90B and yet to name alteast six platforms capable of launching, Harpoon, Exocet, or in development SLCM. The undersea strike will concentrate upon eliminating the Carrier Strike force screen in the shape of Air Defence Contorl ships or the hunter killer screens of subs. (This is wher PN has its job cut out for it). India has definite adavantge here that needs to tackled with delpoyment of quality hunter/killer platforms.
The Nuclear option form Pakistan's perspective is of deploying and completing the "Triad" and a tactical left hook through the sub launched Cruise missles against the Carrier group(s).
In the light of the above myspin on the path for PN would be:
1. Enhance smaller AShM equipped platforms (The chinese and Turkish options are there and atleast two Chinese options arebeing built)
2. Go for another four to six Zulfiquar Class ship but with modifications in place to enhnace crew safety, enhanced firefighting, and Point Defence capabiltiy. The helo alaso needs to be enhanced with light weight torps for limited ASW capability.
3. Add atleast four Type 54's for better detection, Point Defence or if possible an Surface LCM capabiltiy. These obviously have to be modified with PN in mind. The modficatinos should also look for a better equipped helo capability in the shape of European ASW helos. or if we can manage, the US option of Seahawk.
4. Add only 4 Chinese subs and use them as strategic options depending upon their possible use as SLCM platform. The savings form the reduction of the force by two boats ahould be invested in enhnacing the A90B (or modificaiton of it) by atleast antoher three boats.
5. I would also add SPADA 2000 system to Greater KHI, Gawader and Ormara to enhnace survivabiltiy of suporting infrastructure.
We really do not need Nuclear boats. USN or USSR needed them as their patrol ranges were on an oceanic/gloabal scale and needed longer ranges and endurances. Our engagment is on a regional basis, hence no need to bleed ourselves to death in trying to support an expensive option.
I will also invest in MCMV to keep all four ports operational.
As far as the SU's are concerned, they are a real threat and are included in the scenario build-up's at NDU since last seven years. We are rapidly building up a counter to the SU threat from south west. Air and sea detection is being enhnaced in the south west and plans are underway to modify the Ormara Airbase to handle different types of aircraft. Runway is being revamped pretty soon. Can not say more than that.
Once again, PN does not require sea control around Indian EEZ. What it wants is sea denial in and around the EEZ of Pakistan. This fundamental difference in doctrines between IN and PN clearly dictates the differeces in aporach to building their respecitve fleets, differently.
PN has in the recent past started enhancing its maritime detection/patrol and strike power. I know that this wil continue in the years to come with the induction of Airborne EW platforms, enhanced and loger range strike capability through induction of JFT's and air refueling options being put in place.
The surface fleet will see (Logically) an enhnaced dependance upon smaller corvette type patrol platforms that can pose as big a threat as say a MP Frigate equipped with AShM. Even in case of hostilties, and without air cover these platform, if deployed in sufficient numbers will turn into a headache for any navy deployed for an offensive role Pakistan.
I suspect that procurment or desire to go for type 54 reperesnts an appreciation of enhnacing the air/point defence capabiltiy of th fleet. This buy is not to attack the Carrier group but to enhnace the anti air effrot for the ASW Hunter Killer groups (At least four needed) that will be deployed in times of war.
The Carrier group will be primarily dealt through agressive deployment of land based airpower equippmd with Babar/Ra'ad Cruise Missile as stand off strike with cover from either the J10 or the F-16's.
This will be complemented with undersea strike through the submarine assets in the shape of the three A90B and yet to name alteast six platforms capable of launching, Harpoon, Exocet, or in development SLCM. The undersea strike will concentrate upon eliminating the Carrier Strike force screen in the shape of Air Defence Contorl ships or the hunter killer screens of subs. (This is wher PN has its job cut out for it). India has definite adavantge here that needs to tackled with delpoyment of quality hunter/killer platforms.
The Nuclear option form Pakistan's perspective is of deploying and completing the "Triad" and a tactical left hook through the sub launched Cruise missles against the Carrier group(s).
In the light of the above myspin on the path for PN would be:
1. Enhance smaller AShM equipped platforms (The chinese and Turkish options are there and atleast two Chinese options arebeing built)
2. Go for another four to six Zulfiquar Class ship but with modifications in place to enhnace crew safety, enhanced firefighting, and Point Defence capabiltiy. The helo alaso needs to be enhanced with light weight torps for limited ASW capability.
3. Add atleast four Type 54's for better detection, Point Defence or if possible an Surface LCM capabiltiy. These obviously have to be modified with PN in mind. The modficatinos should also look for a better equipped helo capability in the shape of European ASW helos. or if we can manage, the US option of Seahawk.
4. Add only 4 Chinese subs and use them as strategic options depending upon their possible use as SLCM platform. The savings form the reduction of the force by two boats ahould be invested in enhnacing the A90B (or modificaiton of it) by atleast antoher three boats.
5. I would also add SPADA 2000 system to Greater KHI, Gawader and Ormara to enhnace survivabiltiy of suporting infrastructure.
We really do not need Nuclear boats. USN or USSR needed them as their patrol ranges were on an oceanic/gloabal scale and needed longer ranges and endurances. Our engagment is on a regional basis, hence no need to bleed ourselves to death in trying to support an expensive option.
I will also invest in MCMV to keep all four ports operational.
As far as the SU's are concerned, they are a real threat and are included in the scenario build-up's at NDU since last seven years. We are rapidly building up a counter to the SU threat from south west. Air and sea detection is being enhnaced in the south west and plans are underway to modify the Ormara Airbase to handle different types of aircraft. Runway is being revamped pretty soon. Can not say more than that.
Varunastra
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IN will never attack pakistan because we both have nukes with operational delivery systems!!!..................so pakistan should concentrate more on developement and moreover PN cannot dream of matching the strenght of IN!!!
ziaulislam
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there are 50,000 thousands methods to deliver a nuke..and early warning systems are useless in such a close prroximity..we all know that..
it would be useful for instance b/w USA and russia/china but not for india/Pakistan..has even unguided battle field blastic rockets can do the job
ziaulislam
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PAK navy role isnt to match indian navy but simply to stop any short stragic strike from indian navy..
as we all know short strikes will take out nukes from the option..
and with current force of 5 submarines, 10 midget subs and 10+ frigates it can easily do that
Shinigami
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this is pakistan's current force?
is there a good chance for that in the future? probably-
Areesh
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this is pakistan's current force?
is there a good chance for that in the future? probably-
Use wikipedia please. You definitely need it.
Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
this is pakistan's current force?
is there a good chance for that in the future? probably-
Seems like he is flying in da posiedon at 60000+ feet so he is not able to recognize the strength of PN fleet correctly.............
this is pakistan's current force?
is there a good chance for that in the future? probably-
Nostradamus predicts..
Shinigami
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currently, pakistan has 8 frigates, 8 subs, not 10+ frigates and 15 subs, just like u said, refer wiki
Pakistan Navy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
can it increase to that level in the future? no.
why? death spiral.
ie, as a rule, naval and air platforms get more expensive with time making harder to even maintain the current numbers, forget about expanding them. countries with a robust or expanding economy may be an exception.
Elementary Watson. So very elementary
current PN strength:
6 type 21 frigates+4 f 22p frigates+1 ohp classs frigate =10 frigates
3 agosta 90b+2 agosta 70 = 5 conventional subs
midget =classified
hope it wil remove some misconceptions............
Areesh
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currently, pakistan has 8 frigates, 8 subs, not 10+ frigates and 15 subs, just like u said, refer wiki
Pakistan Navy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
can it increase to that level in the future? no.
why? death spiral.
ie, as a rule, naval and air platforms get more expensive with time making harder to even maintain the current numbers, forget about expanding them. countries with a robust or expanding economy may be an exception.
Elementary Watson. So very elementary
This is what Ziaulislam said.
And PN has this force right not. What are you talking about. Yeah I know you are trying to troll but still you don't make sense.
Shinigami
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i suppose its your word against wikipedia. i think i'll choose the latter.
6000 posts and you are the one who makes no sense
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